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How ArtCraft gets $30 a month from me, VIP with value, not power.

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21 hours ago, Solex said:

One account allowed per IP address. Violaters are permabanned. 

 

Do it. Do it.

That will hit ALL the wrong ppl, siblings, or even multiple ppl on same campus wont be able to play together, where those that really want multiple accounts just gonna get a VPN. IP-ban/restriction is one of the weakest methods of doing it, and will usually cause more harm than good

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If games can do hardware bans maybe crowfall can use similar to make it so one CPU = one account.

I mean they did say they were marketing to hardcore gamers, the type of people that care about their computer hardware, so they shouldn't really be worried about joe blow on a pentium 4 who shares his computer with 3 siblings.

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A bit off topic but still relevant to the whole cost discussion: Where are people getting the $30 per account figure? I thought the game was going to be $50. While it doesn't have any effect on issue of alts being better than VIP in the long run, that's still a pretty significant cost increase.

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20 minutes ago, Kethion said:

A bit off topic but still relevant to the whole cost discussion: Where are people getting the $30 per account figure? I thought the game was going to be $50. While it doesn't have any effect on issue of alts being better than VIP in the long run, that's still a pretty significant cost increase.

its $50 for the game box at retail launch price [it was in contrast $30 for a kickstarter pledge to get the game box]

and $15/month for the optional VIP sub.

Edited by Tinnis

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32 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

its $50 for the game box at retail launch price [it was in contrast $30 for a kickstarter pledge to get the game box]

and $15/month for the optional VIP sub.

I remember reading that a while back, but it still confuses me why people are using that amount because it's only relevant for people the people who already have the extra accounts at that price since (I assume) you can't do that anymore. For the purposes of this discussion I'd think using $50 as the comparison value makes more sense.

Edited by Kethion

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17 minutes ago, Kethion said:

I remember reading that a while back, but it still confuses me why people are using that amount. It only relevant for people who have the extra accounts already anyway. For the purposes of discussion I'd think using $50 makes more sense.

i read this thread title as implying they would rather have two accounts each with VIP [so 2x$15 a month]? <shrug> vs a bunch of alt accounts without vip

Edited by Tinnis

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On ‎13‎-‎09‎-‎2017 at 5:51 PM, Kirchhoff said:

I understand the argument, but it is kind of an arbitrary circumstance you are portraying.  Just because someone has crafting training does not mean they will automatically have better gear than someone who does not.  It just is not that simple.  Who plays the game more will impact the quality of their gear far more than who has VIP, which to me, removes it as a P2W concern.

 

On ‎13‎-‎09‎-‎2017 at 6:45 PM, ClockworkOrange said:

I highly agree VIP should be Value, not power. I also think you have addressed every power concern in a very well thought out way. I hadn't even brought up the double training race or class that you did as I hoped ACE would handle it correctly (i don't know why) and didn't want to add to an already confusing discussion.

My only fear is that we make the difference between VIP vs non-VIP so complicated that people end up being confused. Not saying that you are doing it, but it is starting to go in this direction.

Think of the conversation you will have with a friend when trying to get him into Crowfall. Is he still listening when you have finished explaining VIP vs non-VIP?

+1

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On 9/13/2017 at 4:19 AM, VIKINGNAIL said:

All of the complaints about the system currently requiring too much interdependence are very silly.  People are playing in a "world" with like 30 testers and no real economy worth building. 

MMORPGs aren't supposed to be about achieving everything on your own, and when the game opens up to thousands finding someone to craft your plate chest isn't going to be nearly as hard. 

But people don't seem to understand the value of interdependency and specialization.  They can't seem to get past their own desire for convenience. 

I found that in games depending on others never works out.  They either never get on when they say, they forgot to do x, they only  have x amount of time to play.  For serious gamers that craft they would prefer to create their own empires.  I have done this in a few games where accounts were free.  Yes I had to at times juggle 30 accounts but that is what I did.  Yes it got to be overbearing at times too.  But if I needed something right now, I could probably make it and not have to wait for others.

I have paid for the game but I have no desire to play as I described above in Crowfall.  I was hoping to play one account.  I am still not even sure I like or understand the game enough to want to play at this point.

Edited by Talizar

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3 hours ago, Tinnis said:

i read this thread title as implying they would rather have two accounts each with VIP [so 2x$15 a month]? <shrug> vs a bunch of alt accounts without vip

Yes.

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On 9/16/2017 at 7:52 AM, Kethion said:

A bit off topic but still relevant to the whole cost discussion: Where are people getting the $30 per account figure? I thought the game was going to be $50. While it doesn't have any effect on issue of alts being better than VIP in the long run, that's still a pretty significant cost increase.

That is a fair criticism, however it does not change the logic of Alt vs VIP only the timeline by which VIP loses its value.

If you assume brand new player with no discounted pledge package.

Account + 1 year VIP = $230

3 Non-VIP Accounts = $150 (one time charge)

A player with VIP will reach the $150 investment mark at around 6-7 months.

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Only thing I can think ACE could give for VIP that isn't training or 'power' related are:

  • Custom prints for unique cosmetic armor/weapons (they did mention in KS of a unique sword and armor print).
  • A certain amount of currency to buy things from the store.
  • Access to early visual decour and building skins and layouts. 
  • Early access to new classes and/or races. Give everyone the ability to start training simultaneously so there isn't any power involved.
  • Unique race features, extra color options, unique gfx for spells.
  • High resolution textures.

 

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I think this whole VIP thing is being blown out of proportion. This game is for a niche market, and should be considered as well when deciding what VIP should entail. I know they want this game to grow, but let's be honest, it will never reach proportions like a game like Star Citizen.

I will support a game, if I enjoy it enough to come back to it and make it "my game". I don't need any fancy things that other people don't have to convince me to give ACE money. P2W or not, and that's what I think is the problem. The community is expecting value for their money, rather than paying for something they want to support because they like it, and everyone has a different definition of value per dollar.

I mean, ACE could just introduce lock-boxes if they really want to make money : P

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On 10/3/2017 at 2:43 AM, Gwanstar said:

I think this whole VIP thing is being blown out of proportion. This game is for a niche market, and should be considered as well when deciding what VIP should entail. I know they want this game to grow, but let's be honest, it will never reach proportions like a game like Star Citizen.

I will support a game, if I enjoy it enough to come back to it and make it "my game". I don't need any fancy things that other people don't have to convince me to give ACE money. P2W or not, and that's what I think is the problem. The community is expecting value for their money, rather than paying for something they want to support because they like it, and everyone has a different definition of value per dollar.

I mean, ACE could just introduce lock-boxes if they really want to make money : P

That's like saying you love your automobile so much that after you pay it off, you'll continue to give the manufacturer 300$ per month to help support them. 

I love the game idea. I tossed some cash to buy a pledge, if they want more they have to earn it, they have to give something to get my revenue after the sale. Had they said it was a complete subscription game at the beginning I wouldn't have had a problem.

Quote

I mean, ACE could just introduce lock-boxes if they really want to make money : P

you can go hug the hunger for all I care with that statement!

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2 hours ago, jetah said:

you can go hug the hunger for all I care with that statement!

XD. All jokes aside, the thing is... ACE has to compete in a market saturated with games that essentially try to mimic the current most succesful one to make the most money possible. To make things worse, competitors also mimic systems that other MMOs use to make even more money by introducing things where the richest profit most.

I recently thought about how I spent 1000 hours playing a video game, where I only spent 50 dollars to purchase it, in the meanwhile, I am spending 50 dollars for another game I only played for 20 hours. You know, I kinda felt bad, knowing that a game was so good, I spent 1000 hours playing it, while I payed the same amount of money for the game I spent 20 hours in. I could feel either ripped off for buying the one I only played for 20 hours, or I could feel like I ripped off the game I spent 1000 hours in, depending on how you look at it. I feel like I ripped off the one I played for 1000 hours.

 

As an example I will use my favorite modder. He makes the tools people use to be able to mod games. Without him modding wouldn't be possible for certain games. He has a patreon and everyone simply comes by when they need it, donate a dollar and leave. Then they make their own patreon and receive money as a donation every month for making mods using his tools, for a ridiculus amount of money, while the guy who creates the tools for modding receives close to nothing. I decide to go out of my way to support the guy, to say "Thank you for doing this for us".

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Even as someone with over a year of VIP, I will still get an alt account that does training in Crafting so I don't have to spend that training time on my VIP account doing that. I could do Gathering or double Combat or something else that gives me value in PvP. The argument of multiple Alt accounts gives a better deal than VIP is a little silly. A VIP player can still get non-VIP accounts. So the non-VIP advantage is kind of negated, right?

I am okay with 2/2/2 for VIP and 1/1/1 for non-VIP. Plus if I wanted to get a bunch of stuff trained up on either account I can make those Tomes after saving up some training time in a particular skill tree (when they get patched into the game after launch). So if my non-VIP account completes the basic Crafting tree, I could at any point start storing that training time for Tomes for my VIP account. Same goes for my VIP account for non-VIP.

On another point of this, not everyone is going to run multiple accounts. 2 would be my max and one of them I'd only log into a couple times a day at the very most. The argument of power creep at this point where the majority of us probably are VIP is a little silly. A lot of this is speculation as to how all of this is going to play out. Also, double dipping into the same skill tree doesn't necessarily mean that the VIP player is going to beat a non-VIP player in PvP. There are too many variables to account for in a PvP skirmish and who reaches further into their wallet more than the other isn't going to be the deciding factor. Actual pvp skill does.

So for people who want to run some absurd amount of accounts, go ahead. Doesn't mean you're more skilled at the game than another player. Doesn't mean the guild you're in will beat someone else's guild in a pvp skirmish. Doesn't mean your faction will win a campaign either because it has more "accounts" in it. The player's efforts in the campaign or pvp fight aren't even being considered.

A guild's army being lead by someone that isn't a moron is going to have more impact on whether or not it secures victories in a campaign against enemy players and ultimately a faction win. Not how much money is being spent on the game. This isn't Archeage where people dropped hundreds on loot crates for Thunderstrucks which led to entire guilds jumping significantly in combat strength. Skill tree training isn't a defining feature of the game that will lead to a faction winning more than other factions in campaigns.

Let's try to actually be realistic and practical about this.

On 9/14/2017 at 8:30 PM, Solex said:

One account allowed per IP address. Violaters are permabanned. 

 

Do it. Do it.

I believe Sandbox Interactive did this with their game Albion Online. They would constantly advise their players to not use VPNs or Proxies or they would get permabanned.

Guess what happened? A bunch of people did and got permabanned. Probably is one of the reasons why the player population of the game is dying or it could have been the 3 years of terrible decisions made during their beta tests. Not a good idea for either the game's player population or company's financial future. If anything the entry price to get into the game for a non-VIP player should be smaller to incentivize interested people into buying into the game. A lower price point would help with that.  

 

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