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srathor

I do not like how gathering in Crowfall makes me feel

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Testing isn't going to help ACE figure out what is fun when the testers can't properly contextualize what they are testing.  Fun is a matter of context, you tell people to hit rocks in an environment where numbers aren't balanced at all, and their work constantly gets wiped, and they aren't going to have "fun".

You give it permanent meaning towards fueling a campaign victory in a launch environment and populate the world with hundreds all playing for realzy and things are different.

Right now ACE is catering to too many complaints from people that miss the point of testing, it's creating a very poor game that will not do well at launch.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 minute ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Testing isn't going to help ACE figure out what is fun when the testers can't properly contextualize what they are testing.  Fun is a matter of context, you tell people to hit rocks in an environment where numbers aren't balanced at all, and their work constantly gets wiped, and they aren't going to have "fun".

You give it permanent meaning towards fueling a campaign victory in a launch environment and populate the world with hundreds all playing for realzy and things are different.

Right now ACE is catering to too many complaints from people that miss the point of testing, it's creating a very poor game that will not do well at launch.

I really can't imagine hitting rocks will ever be fun. NOW is the time to rework it, not when the game is live and running. I agree, not every complain is warranted, as we still have to see how systems work out with more players and a full game loop, but if a basic mechanic like gathering is boring, a rework won't hurt, as long as the end is the same. 

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5 minutes ago, XpCjU said:

I really can't imagine hitting rocks will ever be fun. NOW is the time to rework it, not when the game is live and running. I agree, not every complain is warranted, as we still have to see how systems work out with more players and a full game loop, but if a basic mechanic like gathering is boring, a rework won't hurt, as long as the end is the same. 

Some people don't find it fun to craft, they shouldn't craft, some don't find it fun to harvest, they shouldn't harvest.  Like I said before if people have mechanical complaints about the act of harvesting that is one thing.

Logically crowfall should not cater to solo harvesters, nor should it cater to people that scream unfun anytime they lose. 

Outside of making some sort of deep mini-game to the act of gathering a material harvesting is always going to be hitting rocks and waiting for the reward.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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4 hours ago, Anhrez said:

 

I'd have a macro that would drop things stored in a certain location in my inventory

This sounds a lot like P2W style cheating. You are using an outside mechanic to gain an in-game advantage and is super super bad. :P

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I love gathering in other games. I also love crafting. I like building and making poorly made socks. Always have.

Crowfalls gathering right now is functional. But it is not fun. 

The building of gear towards the goal of being a good gatherer is functional as well but overly dependent on a single stat with no other stats being useful at anything other than a lark.

The skill raising and the choices and time it requires to be a good gatherer is abysmal. 

The entire system is using the crutches of the Laborer disc and the Test potions. They are the ONLY reason the system is even functional at all. And the laborer disc is simply one of the potions rolled into solid form. 

They are working on the gathering system right now. I sure hope they let some of the people who will be banging on the systems in game for hopefully years into that process. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Verot said:

This sounds a lot like P2W style cheating. You are using an outside mechanic to gain an in-game advantage and is super super bad. :P

I think that's one of the things wow does best, addons and makros. Maybe crowfall will implement some of those mechanics 

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16 minutes ago, Verot said:

This sounds a lot like P2W style cheating. You are using an outside mechanic to gain an in-game advantage and is super super bad. :P

lol what? P2W style cheating ? how is that pay to win?

Sure using a macro to simulate in game effort could be against the TOS and that would be bad (not really sure worth 2 supers)  but that is different that P2W.

 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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2 minutes ago, Anhrez said:

lol what? P2W style cheating ? how is that pay to win?

Sure using a macro to simulate in game effort could be against the TOS and that would be bad (not really sure worth 2 supers)  but that is different that P2W.

 

Not true, the less fortunate gamers can't afford fancy mice with macro software. You are paying for advantage, therefore P2W. 

Edit: sarcasm does not come across well in text, but I'm glad that you have outed yourself as the type of player who will cheat to gain an advantage.

Edited by Verot

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so if I have a 3 button mouse and map to the 3rd button that is p2w versus a person using a 2 button mouse because I spent more money on the mouse? so if you use a keyboard that allows you to program map letters to your preferences you have P2W super badness because other people have the older model? 

omg .... 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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15 minutes ago, Anhrez said:

so if I have a 3 button mouse and map to the 3rd button that is p2w versus a person using a 2 button mouse because I spent more money on the mouse? so if you use a keyboard that allows you to program map letters to your preferences you have P2W super badness because other people have the older model? 

omg .... 

Of course not, the P2W part is where you use outside resources to bypass in game mechanics. Mapping to mouse button three is no different than mapping to F1, that is just preference. Remapping keys etc is all well within the scope of the game features.

Edit: its actually the worse kind of cheating. First you are breaking the rules and secondly you are doing so with resources not available to all would be cheaters. Perhaps another player would like to cheat to dump loot on the ground to distract attackers, but they can't afford to do so. P2W cheating is the worst kind of both P2W and cheating.

Edited by Verot

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10 minutes ago, DocHollidaze said:

This thread sure took a bizarre turn.

ya it did .... a fun comment about how I wish could drop doobers (which is not even an in game option) turned into I am the worst type of P2W cheater, but hey Vernot is a bit of a trolly person by nature it seems and I should have just ignored the kid :)

But back on the topic:

I thought that even the simple sharing of the teams desire to re-look at crafting much mean that its has to be a topic of common discussion as there are so many features and changes on the horizon that if it was something that bubbled to the surface then must be getting some dev time? 

 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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7 hours ago, srathor said:

I was on my rat. Why? because the rat* is the best at getting away.

duelist vanish is literally useless, even if you do ever get the charge for it.... (doesn't hide the nameplate, still roots the duelist for a number of seconds, doesn't clear DoTs...)

giphy.gif

*you mispelt wood-elf druid with bard....

 

+

 

Edited by Tinnis

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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Some people don't find it fun to craft, they shouldn't craft, some don't find it fun to harvest, they shouldn't harvest.  Like I said before if people have mechanical complaints about the act of harvesting that is one thing.

Logically crowfall should not cater to solo harvesters, nor should it cater to people that scream unfun anytime they lose. 

Outside of making some sort of deep mini-game to the act of gathering a material harvesting is always going to be hitting rocks and waiting for the reward.

Oh come on, we have spells for crying out loud, where is your creativity?

Blowing poorly made socks up is fun.  That ACE elected to go with such a pedestrian model of the event given all the options Sci-Fi and real world has available to break things down is just sad.

Imagine a spell that blasts the nodes

 

And this is what an untrained player may look like doing the same thing.

 

Wouldn't coming across a harvester that is doing something more like this, be more interesting, for both?

 

 

You have said repeatedly you plan on doing zero harvesting, so by all means comment about the need for harvesters to be vulnerable, but stop discounting ideas from harvesters, on how harvesting can be made more fun.

EDIT: 

Hell, those abilities could even designed with an in combat use, pushes, light damage, blind/deafness, etc, so the last place you or your team wants to be is near the center of a ore miner blasting the poorly made socks out of nodes.

Graves could be a summon spell that partially forms a corpse, and then it collapses in on itself into the remaining components.

It's doesn't need to take a mini game, and with a bit of creativity, it's doesn't have to ONLY apply to the harvesting process.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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48 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Oh come on, we have spells for crying out loud, where is your creativity?

Blowing poorly made socks up is fun.  That ACE elected to go with such a pedestrian model of the event given all the options Sci-Fi and real world has available to break things down is just sad.

Imagine a spell that blasts the nodes

 

And this is what an untrained player may look like doing the same thing.

 

Wouldn't coming across a harvester that is doing something more like this, be more interesting, for both?

 

 

You have said repeatedly you plan on doing zero harvesting, so by all means comment about the need for harvesters to be vulnerable, but stop discounting ideas from harvesters, on how harvesting can be made more fun.

EDIT: 

Hell, those abilities could even designed with an in combat use, pushes, light damage, blind/deafness, etc, so the last place you or your team wants to be is near the center of a ore miner blasting the poorly made socks out of nodes.

Graves could be a summon spell that partially forms a corpse, and then it collapses in on itself into the remaining components.

It's doesn't need to take a mini game, and with a bit of creativity, it's doesn't have to ONLY apply to the harvesting process.

Either you can make harvesting a mini-game with a lot of depth, which would be a waste of CF resources anyway, or you can try to dress it up with pretty fx and animations for the type of people that may be duped by that type of superficial presentation for a while, which is also a waste of CF resources. 

The core of the harvesting complaints is that people find the grind too severe, something easily adjustable.  Those that are complaining because they go out there and harvest solo and then get killed really have no business playing this type of game if they don't appreciate the joys and dangers of doing things solo in pvp games.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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11 hours ago, Tinnis said:

duelist vanish is literally useless, even if you do ever get the charge for it.... (doesn't hide the nameplate, still roots the duelist for a number of seconds, doesn't clear DoTs...)

giphy.gif

*you mispelt wood-elf druid with bard....

No stealth should remove DoTs. DoTting someone is, and always has been, one of the ways to counter stealthers, and the only way - along with AoE powers - for non-Scout (those with specific Reveal-type powers) players to deal with stealthers. In SB as a Druid using those methods I was able to become very effective at popping and killing stealthers. We want more counters - and counters to those counters, like cleanses - in the game, not less, in my opinion.

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12 hours ago, srathor said:

I love gathering in other games. I also love crafting. I like building and making poorly made socks. Always have.
 

I do as well, generally, especially building. You're one of the 3 to 5 people I can think of in CF who has a very informed position on this topic. You mention other games, what games specifically are you referring to, and what mechanics other than the 'bang on a node' mechanic do they use?

Edited by Anthrage

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For once, I am going to agree with Vikingnail.

Harvesting isn't about having "fun".

If I want to be having fun, I'll play Total Warhammer or Bridge or Lemmings or some such.

Harvesting is about making a contribution to your guild.  It is about doing the work that is necessary so your team can excel.

The fun comes latter when you and your guild mates are able to do things that other people can and you understand that you contributed to this.

For all intents and purposes, I think that the harvesting system is pretty close to complete.  Come game launch, people are going to be out there punching rocks and picking up doobers.  There might be some tweaking of individual parameters, but I suspect that the game loop is what it is.

When people going around bitching that "harvesting is too hard" or "crafting is too hard" what they are really saying is "I want something for nothing".  Here's the thing... Something that you can get for nothing in one of these games is pretty damn worthless.  It will get old almost immediately and you're going to be right back where you started.

So stop the damn whining and grow up.

This time around, you screwed up and Anthrage did well.  

Learn from your mistakes rather than throwing yourself a pity party.

 

 

 

 


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"The cinnabar is a lie"

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22 hours ago, blazzen said:

EDIT: Worth nothing this is currently being compounded by advanced nodes mainly being located at PoI's in the current testing map. Ultimately advanced nodes should be more scattered so solo harvesters are a bit harder to find. PoI's will be a group based activity for the most part. 

 

18 hours ago, XpCjU said:

I think a big problem is, that all nodes are around the poi's, there should be nodes found everywhere on the map.

This is definitely an issue. One that I'm pretty sure is only present because they currently need us in one place so that the people on the server are seeing conflict and they can test what happens when there are groups on a plot, how combat is working, and for that matter.... can the crafters get away.

As I imagine it, exploration will be more important after launch, because that stand alone node isn't going to be tier 9. It'll be mineable by a small group and not everyone's going to immediately know where it is. Knowing the location of the resources and getting the people qualified to mine them out there safely will be an important part of the game.

21 hours ago, Jah said:

I'm not a fan of destroying loot as a response to being attacked. Dragging resources out of inventory should drop them on the ground as doobers instead. it might even buy you some time to escape while the attackers stop to grab them.

I like the idea of being able to ditch loot in an attempt to get away or simple method of trade hell I like the idea of having hidden caches to stash things in.... but now I'm going off into fantasy land.

The impression I've gotten is that we're running up against two things with this option. 

1. System resources. All the doobers about are potentially a resource drain. I know very little about that.

2. Programming time. As in all things, I think the devs are weighing things like this against getting functional core mechanics up and running.

 

Do we really think that it would make such a large difference that it's worth them diverting time and memory resources to it?

 

3 hours ago, Anthrage said:

I do as well, generally, especially building. You're one of the 3 to 5 people I can think of in CF who has a very informed position on this topic. You mention other games, what games specifically are you referring to, and what mechanics other than the 'bang on a node' mechanic do they use?

I'm curious too. I am more often than not a solo player in other games, and prone to allowing hours of mind numbing grinding for myself. How have you experienced the positives in other games? What would you take away from other games and hope was a learning point for our Devs? @srathor

Edited by SkEyesOGrey
typeo

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