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Fuel versus Currency? Dust what is it good for ...


Anhrez
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so to finish the line in my best James Brown imitation "absolutely nothing" well at least right now :lol:

So as we see the Campaign worlds eek closer to a stable 'win' mechanic I start to think of what makes my enjoyment of MMO's happen, for me its being wealthy. Not just in coin, or mats, but anything of value in the game. so .... what will be wealth/currency in Crowfall game? 

We have heard that factories could need dust to work, but to me that seems more like a fuel mechanic than a currency. I mean once I pay the factory/thralls the dust its goes away from the economy as a whole right? Not like the Thralls go on a spending spree and that Dust circulates back into the player economy as a whole, so to me it feels more like a fuel then a currency. Dust is needed for many of the Siege Crafting mechanics, this makes Dust feel like a base crafting component neither a currency nor a fuel. 

2dnYLwp.png

At one time there was talk of taking base ore or bars and 'minting' currency of sorts, but to date we have seen nothing in the Crafting Tree that leads us to guess what Profession would have this skill, and what does turning 1 bar of gold into 20 gold coins gain for the players? Maybe our EK taxes could be paid for in gold coins, but that alone is not enough to create a currency. If we convert gold bars to coins and then pay taxes those coins leave the player econ loop, and again act as nothing more than fuel.  

What creates the value for the full on PvP players who could care less about their EK ... why would a @facerip or a @Unfolded take gold coins from me as a form of payment if they have no reason to use it as fuel for their play style?  Will the need of crafters paying their 'sinks' be enough to pull a currency into a player to player loop?

What will be the reason why players would trade any specific item between each thus creating the player to player econ loop? I am an older gamer. So this reference might not be as relevant to everyone but ... remember Diablo 2's Ring of Jordans? Gold was so common it was worthless, and the only way to spend it was with NPC's whose items were so much poorer in quality then what you would find in the world or craft with the Horadric Cube (omg .. talk about obscure have not thought of that damn RNG soul crushing thing in years) . So players created their own format of currency for the higher end things. 

Unless we see a reason for a 'carfted currency' to be of value for all of the play styles we may end up with Thralls or Tomes as the de facto high end currency and everything else used as fuels for players of certain play styles. This is not necessarily bad ... but Thralls and Tomes are 'consumables' and just like a form of Fuel. Sure WoW and GW2, etc all have ways that they pull gold from the game. they have developed lots of 'sinks' including the ability to buy play time (for wow), but as of yet we have not seen a reason for all players to need a currency. 

Its sure not going to be boring as we see the effort the Dev team spends on building an economy that can battle mud-flation with only light handed adjustments by the team, that creates a player to player loop, and has the needed 'sinks' to create value for a currency. 

 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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There are lots of what appear to be fundamental holes in the economic model that have been pointed out repeatedly since KS.

At the end of the day, trades need to be beneficial to both sides or they wont happen.  Dregs PVPers need to have a reason to trade materials to 3-Faction players that have never seen a purple drop.  If both sides don't have a reason to trade... the trades won't happen and the economy won't cycle.

Will be interesting to see what happens as we get closer to launch.

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Something will end up getting used. Dust seems the logical choice due to the need for a common item to automate vendors.

How much dust will be the question. And will it hold value? That why I use Srathorbucks! Even if the econ tanks they can still be used to wipe! So the value never goes to zero! 

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If there was no way of consuming or using dust, surely it would lead to a "useless gold inflation" situation as you described?

The best example they should consider is Path of Exile's currency orbs

- all of which are consumable and useful in the crafting system / your character / the world

- no "coins": bartering of crafting consumables only, either for other currency items or gear/services
 
 
So in Crowfall terms that would be:

- stacks of ore/wood/stone as the base bartering at their various quality levels and types
 
- thralls and completed disc stones and rune tools

- blueprints at the top end at their various success/quality levels...]

I am also curious how much "trading" there will actually be though, outside of "in-guild" services, throughout the world bands and the eternal kingdoms
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13 minutes ago, Tinnis said:
If there was no way of consuming or using dust, surely it would lead to a "useless gold inflation" situation as you described?

The best example they should consider is Path of Exile's currency orbs

- all of which are consumable and useful in the crafting system / your character / the world

- no "coins": bartering of crafting consumables only, either for other currency items or gear/services
 
 
So in Crowfall terms that would be:

- stacks of ore/wood/stone as the base bartering at their various quality levels and types
 
- thralls and completed disc stones and rune tools

- blueprints at the top end at their various success/quality levels...]

I am also curious how much "trading" there will actually be though, outside of "in-guild" services, throughout the world bands and the eternal kingdoms

With the deep interdependence built into the system, I'm going to go with "lots".

Even with the VIP 2/2/2 refactor, there is going to be huge levels of specialization. Most player groups that revolve around 5-10 friends are not going to have enough resources within themselves to cover all the bases.  (If you really want to make a name/ton of currency for yourself as a crafter, pick one that the average group of 5-10 will not consider core.)

If it doesn't happen, it's because the game died from over interdependence dependence.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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1 hour ago, Tinnis said:
 
 
So in Crowfall terms that would be:

- stacks of ore/wood/stone as the base bartering at their various quality levels and types
 
- thralls and completed disc stones and rune tools

- blueprints at the top end at their various success/quality levels...]

I am also curious how much "trading" there will actually be though, outside of "in-guild" services, throughout the world bands and the eternal kingdoms

I am also curious ... as a high consumption of dust by certain play styles seems nebulous at best to me right now 

maybe with the expansion of gathering to a wider range of players and the influx of loot from the dead the raw materials will be spread out enough to be wide coverage for bartering? 

and ... tomes eventually coming onto the bartering field ? 

 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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Really currency is just a middle man for bartering so that in real life we don't have to move trees and bricks all over the world in return for food.  Without transportation cost just think of every resource as a denomination of currency.  Trees = $1  Stone = $5 Tomes = $100 etc.  Why mess with a middle man who just wants to cheat you out of some of your resources anyway (BANKS!)... ;)

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  • 1 month later...

Hello folks, I'm trying to get caught up on things so I'm reading a lot.

 

My question is about stores in the context of currency (this thread). If we will be able to set up stores, I can see it getting pretty complicated trying to set prices if it is a barter system.

So Dust is the currency or....we just don't know because we don't know all the uses/value of Dust?

Edited by Cordite
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1 hour ago, Cordite said:

Hello folks, I'm trying to get caught up on things so I'm reading a lot.

 

My question is about stores in the context of currency (this thread). If we will be able to set up stores, I can see it getting pretty complicated trying to set prices if it is a barter system.

So Dust is the currency or....we just don't know because we don't know all the uses/value of Dust?

Yes, you can set stores. Theres even plans to use thralls (NPCs) as managers so from that we can assume the existency of currency too. The questions is wheter Dust will be the one used.

[Thralls as shopkeepers is mentioned here on item 17. What is a thrall]

 

There is no problem with Dust being a consumable. Considering that Dust is renewable (Drop from monsters) that is probably the only way it can be done. The fact that it can only be used by crafters is also not a problem, of course it would be better if everyone had a direct use to it but it is not game breaking.

Crafters will probably double as merchants. They will be the ones to provide services to obtain Dust. Those services may or may not be related to crafting.

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