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Crowfall Q&A Live for September: Action Harvesting - Official Discussion

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Please make the non-tool harvesting animation a constant stream of energy being pulled out of the item being harvested.  It just looks better than the repeated, short duration animation of pulling energy out of the trees from the livestream.

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Action harvesting looks better than interact harvesting.  The new toolbars look okay, too.  I worry that harvesting disciplines (on top of laborer) will force us into harvesting alts, regardless of multi-track training.

I don't like that we'll have to be out of combat to attack a tree of life - guess we'll have to see how that plays out.  If defenders can dizzy down attackers, that's a massive advantage.

 

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We will have to see what comes of this. The idea is good, the implementation will determine it's worth to me as a gatherer. 

It does open up certain things, but the underlying mindset is still to have the gatherers as weak loot pigs. Not useful in fights at all and with certain very vulnerable and exploitable weaknesses. Yet they have to go where the biggest risks are. This makes for very stressful and not enjoyable gameplay. 

It also has the previous weakness of only one skilled person is truly useful. With the most damage applying the only useful stats that affect the nodes loot chances, other helpers are just a go faster, their skills trained and gear worn mean nothing. 

We will see what happens I suppose. 


 

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Looks like an improvement for sure.

I would love to see a new group of tools that are based on range/arcane types of harvesting, leaving the player more mobile and able to avoid having to tree hug.

 

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TWITCH VIDEO ON DEMAND


pst i know you have a cycle of a dev stream every 3rd moon or whatever, but a reminder longer than 20 minutes before a stream would be appreciated. 


QUESTION/COMMENTS: @thomasblair / @mhalashace

Can you equip a RMB dodge on the survival tray? [therefore something like a templar could dodge out of combat but still parry on their melee tray?]

Can things like buffs or toggles go here e.g. bard songs, cleric auras, toggle racials be placed here?

 
There is still a large power gap and gameplay interest level between a single and multiple tray class... [you also implied only assassin could get all 4 - but can't ranger get a stealth tray or has idea been revoked or not finalized yet?]
 
Is that "gold background" on the trays going to stay.......?
 

 
NOTES
 
5.3 "action harvesting and updated power trays"

survival harvesting tray - out of combat tray. can drag items and consumables on to it.

Z toggles from survival tray to combat tray [e.g. melee or range]

tray specific passives and lmb/rmb?

if holding harvesting tool - your left click will do it.

harvesting no longer relies on F to interact 

[thrones/looting still F to interact]

out of combat movement speed buffs only on the survival tray. e.g. trailblazer or trailmaster
 
sprint remains an "in combat" only power

health potions are out of combat regens only

druid or ranger = T to go to ranged tray/life tray  ...or remap it

left click "zapping" of trees instead of unlimited free basic spirit axe. flytext damage numbers vs resource nodes.

can make a basic runestone axe

broken the basic harvest tool recipes down - now all only require 3 wood

tool will be out 100% of the time when active [can also hide it though]

add some powers in survival tray to use while harvesting e.g. more dmg, convert health to stamina, better stamina use etc [on harvesting disciplines!]

you will see harvest crits

TREE OF LIFE will STOP taking damage from anything but AXES! [fire damage probably still tho?]

[so out of combat and vulnerable people can get dizzy downed when trying to hurt siege trees!]

walls will take damage from hammers [catapults too obviously]

fort walls weak to chopping as well?

 

cleric spirit hammer and heal block:

https://clips.twitch.tv/CarelessSecretiveBibimbapPicoMause

 

Edited by Tinnis

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Can you please clarify a few things (sorry I missed the stream);

  • You mentioned Dizzy Down being a risk of the reward you gain for being in the Survival Tray. This was one of my "not really needed" penalties for gatherers; would be great to have a major discipline that allowed gatherers to avoid this. We seem to be awfully close to a soft-launch in 2017, when might we see the mentioned Exploration Disciplines?
  • Stealth is seemingly now a combat tray. Does this mean no dizzy-down while in Stealth aka Combat Tray (with how easily people can aoe/dmg shield themselves...)?
  • For Assassin, Duelist and (maybe) Ranger;
    1. Can they only enter the Stealth Tray while in Survival Tray with the tray-swap key?
    2. Similarly, can they enter Stealth Tray while in other combat trays; Melee or Ranged? 
    3. Are there any restrictions on players swapping to Survival Tray while engaged in combat with another play (read: not just in combat tray)?

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Follow up questions...

  1. MULTIPLE TRAYS:
    1. The issue of multiple trays for only certain classes is a major concern for balance and effectiveness...especially now that we have disciplines and more powers than we can slot in a single bar. @thomasblair tells us in the stream that most players will only have 2 trays (default combat and survival) while the Assassin may get 4 (ranged, melee, stealth and survival). Again, because powerbar real estate is so valuable now, if certain classes are prevented from having both a ranged and melee tray, this will greatly impact their relative strength and functionality. Master of Bow is presently designed to give the ranged tray to Assassin, Champion, Knight and Myrmidon. That leaves the Cleric, Confessor, Frostweaver, Templar and Duelist without the ability to have both melee and ranged. I would propose that Master of Pistols grant the Duelist the ranged tray. Master of Hammers should grant the Cleric the Melee tray. Master of Daggers should grant the Confessor and Frostweaver the melee tray. Templar should be added to Master of Bows for the Ranged tray. As a result...all classes would have multiple combat trays for slotting Discipline powers.
  2. HARVESTING TOOLS AND SIEGES:
    1. You've told us that axes will now chop down Trees of Life and Banetrees and hammers will knock down walls. 
      1. I presume that this means that a trained harvester, with points in quarrying, will be more effective in knocking down walls than those without that training?
      2. Will picks do damage to either ToLs or walls?
      3. Will siege engines (trebuchet, ballista, etc) be damaged by harvesting axes? picks? hammers?
      4. Will non-harvesting weapons (i.e. normal combat axes) do damage to ToLs? or only harvesting axes? Will the cleric's Spirit Hammer damage walls?
      5. Will the Confessor's fire damage spells (LMB, Firewall, etc) damage ToLs? Banetrees? Siege engines?
  3. TRAY INTERFACE:
    1. The brass power bar appears to be somewhat translucent. Is this a permanent addition? Can its opacity be adjusted?
  4. SURVIVAL TRAY:
    1. As Tinnis asked, will certain hybrid powers be slottable in the Survival Tray? 
      1. Bard songs?
      2. Cleric auras?
      3. Centaur chants?
      4. Movement powers?
        1. Champion leap?
        2. Templar leap?
        3. Ranger forest step?
  5. STEALTH TRAY:
    1. Do you still consider the stealth tray to be OOC for purposes of being Dizzy Downed?
Edited by Gradishar

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18 minutes ago, scree said:

 

  • For Assassin, Duelist and (maybe) Ranger;
    1. Can they only enter the Stealth Tray while in Survival Tray with the tray-swap key?
    2. Similarly, can they enter Stealth Tray while in other combat trays; Melee or Ranged? 
    3. Are there any restrictions on players swapping to Survival Tray while engaged in combat with another play (read: not just in combat tray)?

scree... @thomasblair did confirm in the stream that Duelists will only be able to burrow from the Survival tray. Their Vanish (Ultimate) will still be available from their combat tray.

Edited by Gradishar

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So thinking about the 103 damage thing, I noticed previously that if you pause while harvesting near the end of the node, and it's one swing to finish the node, that node will break without triggering any doobers.

There is something weird other than "rounding" with first strikes. It's like it fails to apply any training/player bonuses and uses a different set of numbers for some reason.

 

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45 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

scree... @thomasblair did confirm in the stream that Duelists will only be able to burrow from the Survival tray. Their Vanish (Ultimate) will still be available from their combat tray.

He actually confirmed that "Guinecean" and "Wood-Elf" racial-stealths would be usable from Survival try.

Not Duelists/Assassins.


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36 minutes ago, scree said:

He actually confirmed that "Guinecean" and "Wood-Elf" racial-stealths would be usable from Survival try.

Not Duelists/Assassins.

Dude....seriously?

 

35:17 Gradishar: "The Duelist Burrowing power...currently requires you to be OOC...will that carry forward so that the Duelist must be in Survival tray to burrow?"

36:04 Thomas Blair: "'The Duelist burrowing power currently requires for you to be out of combat, will that carry forward to the Duelist must be in Survival tray to Burrow?' Yes, so you have to be in the survival tray to enter the burrow stance or use their ultimate Vanish and that will automatically put them into the burrow state. Also, the racial burrow and the wood elf racial camouflage both require you to be in the survival tray to activate them. They cannot be activated from the melee or ranged tray."

Edited by Gradishar

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2 hours ago, srathor said:

We will have to see what comes of this. The idea is good, the implementation will determine it's worth to me as a gatherer. 

It does open up certain things, but the underlying mindset is still to have the gatherers as weak loot pigs. Not useful in fights at all and with certain very vulnerable and exploitable weaknesses. Yet they have to go where the biggest risks are. This makes for very stressful and not enjoyable gameplay. 

It also has the previous weakness of only one skilled person is truly useful. With the most damage applying the only useful stats that affect the nodes loot chances, other helpers are just a go faster, their skills trained and gear worn mean nothing. 

We will see what happens I suppose. 


 

Those two things combined do present a natural solution, don't you think? :)

It's almost as if the games mechanics encourage a fighter and a harvester to work together.

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2 hours ago, srathor said:

We will have to see what comes of this. The idea is good, the implementation will determine it's worth to me as a gatherer. 

It does open up certain things, but the underlying mindset is still to have the gatherers as weak loot pigs. Not useful in fights at all and with certain very vulnerable and exploitable weaknesses. Yet they have to go where the biggest risks are. This makes for very stressful and not enjoyable gameplay. 

It also has the previous weakness of only one skilled person is truly useful. With the most damage applying the only useful stats that affect the nodes loot chances, other helpers are just a go faster, their skills trained and gear worn mean nothing. 

We will see what happens I suppose. 


 

If they remove combat double dipping with VIP then you'll see a lot of VIP's with combat and harvesting training. Still not a fan of the current dizzy down penalty for harvesters though. 

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59 minutes ago, blazzen said:

If they remove combat double dipping with VIP then you'll see a lot of VIP's with combat and harvesting training. Still not a fan of the current dizzy down penalty for harvesters though. 

That's my plan, actually always was, but I was going to rely on personal skill from practice time in the combat arena, and equipment for harvesting. I think now the first line of combat training will go to armor and defence, but we will see.

What will be interesting, is what does one equip for?  This will allow us to see just how shallow that combat curve is, with people having to decide if they are going to roll as hybrids, or if we will still want pure harvesters, fully geared, on the team as it were. Will high end resources actually be worth the training time, or will all players be better served to simply rely on the labor runes?

Will there be a new model of combat class that revolves around siege/harvest?

Interesting times.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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On action harvesting:

  • I think it would be beneficial if a specific tool type was completely unable to interact with nodes of other types (and not even show a prompt).  This will help in situations where a stone is too close to a tree is too close to a boar, and you have to pixel hunt to harvest the right one.
  • Are there any plans for Ultimates or Retaliates specifically for the Survival tray?
  • This may not have been obvious from comments during the stream, but I believe the motherlode design needs to be revisited to go along with your new system.  Players shouldn't have to fuss about percentages and combined tool stats.  Two players should be able to have some effect on these things, and that effect should scale up as you add more people, better tools, and higher skill.  Your contribution from skills should always make some difference, regardless of how much damage you did to the node.  If I'm in a team of three people, I feel it should always be preferable to mine a motherlode together instead of spending time on the smaller nodes. I've no idea if you log stats for this sort of thing, but if you were able to pull data on how many motherlodes have been mined in Tyranny, I'd guess it's extremely, extremely low.

On power trays in general:

  • Would it make more sense to give everyone four trays to use as they see fit (or not), regardless of whether not they have access to stealth or ranged? Trays are basically just loadouts for use in different situations.  I see no reason why a Templar shouldn't enjoy this flexibility to equip different powers or passives on-the-fly just because she uses a single weapon.
  • It seems that the Stealth tray is a combat tray in the new system.  Does that mean you no longer dizzy down when damaged in stealth?  If so, will we see a different form of "punishment" to replace it?

On the topic of powers automatically changing based on what weapon is equipped:

  • How will this work for Duelist with a Master of Pistols rune equipped, which grants a ranged LMB?  (Asked several times during the stream, but wasn't answered to my knowledge)  Will we still be able to choose in the new system?  Is it a simple matter of swapping your "main hand" and "off hand" weapons?  Will it grant access to a Ranged tray, instead? (<-- my vote is on this one!)
  • Any plans to extend this system to tanky RMB's, as well?  Will a Knight who equips a two handed sword via runes gain access to parry instead of block?

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4 hours ago, scree said:

Can you please clarify a few things (sorry I missed the stream);

  • You mentioned Dizzy Down being a risk of the reward you gain for being in the Survival Tray. This was one of my "not really needed" penalties for gatherers; would be great to have a major discipline that allowed gatherers to avoid this. We seem to be awfully close to a soft-launch in 2017, when might we see the mentioned Exploration Disciplines?
  • Stealth is seemingly now a combat tray. Does this mean no dizzy-down while in Stealth aka Combat Tray (with how easily people can aoe/dmg shield themselves...)?
  • For Assassin, Duelist and (maybe) Ranger;
    1. Can they only enter the Stealth Tray while in Survival Tray with the tray-swap key?
    2. Similarly, can they enter Stealth Tray while in other combat trays; Melee or Ranged? 
    3. Are there any restrictions on players swapping to Survival Tray while engaged in combat with another play (read: not just in combat tray)?

Stealth is not a combat tray. While in stealth out of combat regen is active, and potential to get dizzied exists.

Stealth modes require you to be out of combat to enter that state/tray no matter if you are entering it.

Stealth States (these make you invis but activate no tray swap) - Camo/Racial Burrow

Stealth Tray (make you invis and activate tray swap)- Duelist Burrow / Assassin Stealth

4 hours ago, Gradishar said:

Follow up questions...

  1. MULTIPLE TRAYS:
    1. The issue of multiple trays for only certain classes is a major concern for balance and effectiveness...especially now that we have disciplines and more powers than we can slot in a single bar. @thomasblair tells us in the stream that most players will only have 2 trays (default combat and survival) while the Assassin may get 4 (ranged, melee, stealth and survival). Again, because powerbar real estate is so valuable now, if certain classes are prevented from having both a ranged and melee tray, this will greatly impact their relative strength and functionality. Master of Bow is presently designed to give the ranged tray to Assassin, Champion, Knight and Myrmidon. That leaves the Cleric, Confessor, Frostweaver, Templar and Duelist without the ability to have both melee and ranged. I would propose that Master of Pistols grant the Duelist the ranged tray. Master of Hammers should grant the Cleric the Melee tray. Master of Daggers should grant the Confessor and Frostweaver the melee tray. Templar should be added to Master of Bows for the Ranged tray. As a result...all classes would have multiple combat trays for slotting Discipline powers.
  2. HARVESTING TOOLS AND SIEGES:
    1. You've told us that axes will now chop down Trees of Life and Banetrees and hammers will knock down walls. 
      1. I presume that this means that a trained harvester, with points in quarrying, will be more effective in knocking down walls than those without that training?
      2. Will picks do damage to either ToLs or walls?
      3. Will siege engines (trebuchet, ballista, etc) be damaged by harvesting axes? picks? hammers?
      4. Will non-harvesting weapons (i.e. normal combat axes) do damage to ToLs? or only harvesting axes? Will the cleric's Spirit Hammer damage walls?
      5. Will the Confessor's fire damage spells (LMB, Firewall, etc) damage ToLs? Banetrees? Siege engines?
  3. TRAY INTERFACE:
    1. The brass power bar appears to be somewhat translucent. Is this a permanent addition? Can its opacity be adjusted?
  4. SURVIVAL TRAY:
    1. As Tinnis asked, will certain hybrid powers be slottable in the Survival Tray? 
      1. Bard songs?
      2. Cleric auras?
      3. Centaur chants?
      4. Movement powers?
        1. Champion leap?
        2. Templar leap?
        3. Ranger forest step?
  5. STEALTH TRAY:
    1. Do you still consider the stealth tray to be OOC for purposes of being Dizzy Downed?

1. Powerbars are part of the class package and we are not seeking equal amounts for all classes.

2. Better tools and those trained in harvesting will be better at knocking down walls and trees. Tools can have significant logging and quarrying stat grants attached to them. Might be worthwhile to carry around quality tools. Still deciding how much damage the combat weapons deal to walls/trees for the ones that make sense.

3. UI is still tweaking the active Power Tray, we have no custom settings for it atm.

4. Pretty much powers that don't deal damage will be eligible for the survival tray is the current thought. Buffs/Bard songs etc. Right click powers should all be eligible, we will have to make a pass on the 2 that deal damage. (Cent/Fae) If we do allow movement leaps in this tray we will need to make sure that power puts you in the appropriate tray after using it.

2 hours ago, blazzen said:

If they remove combat double dipping with VIP then you'll see a lot of VIP's with combat and harvesting training. Still not a fan of the current dizzy down penalty for harvesters though. 

Combat is getting the special rule that will disallow multiple trees from being trained in it simultaneously. Survival Tray is not just for harvesters, moving around the world at speed, using consumables on the fly, entering stealth is going to have everyone in the survival tray.

 


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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