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Crafting Thoughts


Lokked
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I've crafted about 2 hours worth of learning the recipes and completing up to getting a couple sets of proper gear.

1. UI - Indicate that a component is actually another recipe and allow a left click to bring you to that recipe, as well as a "Return" button to get you back to the original. Implement it such that you can "Return" continuously to get back to the "Top".

2. Crafting Timer - I honestly found myself falling asleep because of this. What is the desired effect of this timer? Of every single (realistic) activity that could be done, smelting Ore and casting it into a metal bar would take far longer than any of the other items, so I'm sure it's not for realism's sake (and how that's done with no heat source is amazing, and yet we need a campfire to cook food).

3. UI Transitions - For the love of God, the transition time and response time of the UI needs a serious overhaul. It's most noticeable when crafting as you are ONLY interacting with a UI during your entire journey.

4. Crafting Interaction - I complain about this in all games where crafting is concerned, and sometimes it's invalid because crafting is not the focal point of the game, but it has to be said in this case, where crafting can actually be the entire existence of a player's purpose. Make crafting fun! I was literally falling asleep at my keyboard after gathering all the mats I needed to create leather armour and a bow (non-basic). Some people are going to put all their skill time into crafting! Their main will gather resources painfully, kill NPS painfully, and contribute only their class's base skills to PvP. I don't have an answer, but how can you involve a human's skill and desire to be challenged with Crafting? Certainly not by obstructing them with a Progress Bar...

5. Font in the Crafting UI is nearly illegible.

6. If you are going to utilize a probability system where each "opportunity" is worth equal risk, and using multiple "opportunities" results in an additive risk...... Just don't. I don't know if the UI is describing probabilities accurately, but if you have the option to take Two 25% risks vs One 50% risk, only the people who failed Grade 8 Math will take the One 50% risk (non-risk is 56% vs 50%, respectively). There may be some incentive to using 2 Experiments at a time, I've no idea. Either way, with a probability system, once all outcomes are quantified, there will always be a "right" way. It's definitely better than nothing, for sure, and it did keep me trying for better planks, etc, for my perfect gear set. I can see how specializing using the Skills really could allow a person to claim that they make the best Sword Hilts, as suggested in a marketing video.

7. If I've succeeded in the craft, I should still be allowed to cancel and be refunded my resources, prior to playing with Experimentation. Actually, why not make the failure/success decision happen in tandem with Experimenting, and then I wouldn't complain or think I should be able to receive a refund at all. It would streamline a process that already has too many steps.

8. There are too many steps to craft something.... Could be streamlined. One idea above.

9. Allow me to repeat a craft, including having the same material type auto-added, when I click some button. Maybe just clicking the assemble button once returned to the recipe window after succeeding or failing a craft. Resources will attempt to be re-added, and the player can deal with any that no longer exist or that they don't have enough of.

10. Hunting through your inventory for an item that meets a requirement is tedious for players who don't already know. Perhaps when mousing over a requirement, applicable inventory items could be highlighted or non-applicable items could be dimmed. If the player has none, the requirement box could be colour indicative.

 

Thank you for your attention!

Lokked

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8 hours ago, Lokked said:

9. Allow me to repeat a craft, including having the same material type auto-added, when I click some button. Maybe just clicking the assemble button once returned to the recipe window after succeeding or failing a craft. Resources will attempt to be re-added, and the player can deal with any that no longer exist or that they don't have enough of.

10. Hunting through your inventory for an item that meets a requirement is tedious for players who don't already know. Perhaps when mousing over a requirement, applicable inventory items could be highlighted or non-applicable items could be dimmed. If the player has none, the requirement box could be colour indicative.

 

Thank you for your attention!

Lokked

Both of these are very good suggestions.

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8 hours ago, Lokked said:

6. If you are going to utilize a probability system where each "opportunity" is worth equal risk, and using multiple "opportunities" results in an additive risk...... Just don't. I don't know if the UI is describing probabilities accurately, but if you have the option to take Two 25% risks vs One 50% risk, only the people who failed Grade 8 Math will take the One 50% risk (non-risk is 56% vs 50%, respectively). There may be some incentive to using 2 Experiments at a time, I've no idea. Either way, with a probability system, once all outcomes are quantified, there will always be a "right" way. It's definitely better than nothing, for sure, and it did keep me trying for better planks, etc, for my perfect gear set. I can see how specializing using the Skills really could allow a person to claim that they make the best Sword Hilts, as suggested in a marketing video.

 

Lokked

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying here.  I do know that for each individual experiment you do it adds time to how long it takes to craft that item.  So if you use all of your points at once you'll get your finished product much sooner.  That also carries over to manufacturing these items at factories.  Additionally If you roll all of your points at once and get a great success you may wind up with a better item then if you do individual points and get 1 great success and 3 moderate successes.

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24 minutes ago, Wayoun said:

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying here.  I do know that for each individual experiment you do it adds time to how long it takes to craft that item.  So if you use all of your points at once you'll get your finished product much sooner.  That also carries over to manufacturing these items at factories.  Additionally If you roll all of your points at once and get a great success you may wind up with a better item then if you do individual points and get 1 great success and 3 moderate successes.

I don't understand how the calculation work exactly, so it's a lot of assumption. My only comment is that when you deal with probabilities and you have an unbalanced equation (in the above assumption, One 50% Success != Two 75% Successes), there will always be a Best-Case scenario. I thought about this last night and it makes more sense that they've implemented a hard failure probability based on the Crafting Difficulty and your current Craft Skill value, and doing experiments increases that failure rate by 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%, etc. This makes more sense, but still doesn't create a balanced equation. In fact, it's the opposite in terms of the Best-Case.

For example (using the new assumption in the above paragraph), if the probability for some craft is determined to be 20% fail, and you can increase the risk once by 50% (1.) or twice by 25% (2.), you end up with:

(1.) - 20% Base Fail * 1.25 = 25% Fail. 75% Success * 75% Success = 56% chance to succeed at 2 25% Experiments

(2.) - 20% Base Fail * 1.5 = 30% Fail. 70% Success = 70% chance to succeed at 1 50% Experiment.

 

Yes, it can be made more complicated by considering that spending 2 Experiments separately, even if they achieve the same level of success, might not equal 2 Experiments in one go. It doesn't matter that there are different levels of success and failure, UNLESS those probabilities are differ just by how many Experiments you do at once.

Anyways, the point is that it's a probability crafting system. I will commend the design, as far as probability crafting systems work, it's the best I've experienced, as players are able to make a decision on where to focus their attempts, and can create customized gear this way. Some non-probability crafting systems to compare to are Everquest 2 and Vanguard Online. I'm sure there's more but I'm being rushed to finish this reply :)

 

Take care!

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This is the first pass of the crafting system, it is only the mad scientist part. We will have crafting stations with thralls who will work from our mad scientist made blueprints.

So do the experimentation thing once. get good rolls. make blueprint. have thrall able to make 50 of that. Takes a while. 

Then there are supposed to be factories which once trained will let you mass produce things. Also run by thralls. I guess it will be more streamlined and or faster. Not much data on them yet. 

For the risk part there is a bonus if you spend 50% on one roll. The bonus is 50% greater return but of course it adds more risk.

There is still a lot of work to be done fleshing out all the variations and cleaning up the rolls and the perception when you get FAILED!

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But it is a work in progress!

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Interesting.  So If you use all of your points at once you get a 100% additional bonus on whichever success rating you get?  

Lokked, I think you over thought where their success probability number comes from.  It seems to me it's just the percentage of your total points you're using at one time.

1/8 = 12.5%

2/8 = 25%

4/8 = 50%

At least that's what it looked like on the video they put out.  I've not yet gotten to experiment myself.

Edited by Wayoun
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No any risk from 50 to 100% gives you a 50% bonus to the result. but also lowers the chance of getting an amazingwith the more risk you take. Best I have found is get an even number of experimentation points and blow 50% twice. If you can get all the pips in the main stat you want this is a very balanced way to get pretty solid gear made. 

Of course I mix it up now and again. Sometimes I will blow 1-2 points in the main stat then the rest of the 50% roll on the filler stuff then have a few points left over to 1 pip with a much higher chance of amazings. 

Other times I just fill the pips and go for broke. Then the items can turn out amazings or just base success and anything in between. 

I just need a way to automate it so It doesn't take me 20 minutes to make 1 thing and life would be good. Trying to outfit 20-30 people as a single crafter will be just plain stupid with the system as it stands. 

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