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New guy questions on eternal kingdom


Faraven
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From my understanding an eternal kingdom is the permanent part of the mmo and the campaigns are instance based kind of things. And if eternal kingdoms are ones own little world that can be set to private, how does one say create a market for others players, or set up a base of operations, or really interact with other players with in that world. 

Full disclosure. I come from eve online. My thinking is a market hub with high security for merchants. I wanted to be able to host people to sell goods. But if everything stays with in the campaigns what's the point of the eternal kingdom other than a way to passively harvest low level mats. 

Tldr: what is the eternal kingdom in depth and how does one interact with other players in the eternal kindness. I.e. Are the eternal kingdoms connected in anyway. 

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Current understanding:

(1) EKs are permanent, and linked (but with different privacy settings, so some can remove their connection). Guilds will likely fill their EKs with castles and stuff.

(2) CWs are more complicated than instances, in the sense that their duration is more like that of a partial-server life.

(3) CWs will be won and lost, and depending on how you do, you get to export materials from the CW into your EK. Then, some new CWs will also allow imports from the EKs. There is, theoretically, supposed to be a strong economic link between the two, while still avoiding overpowering starts to new CWs for those with lots of previous power gained from other CWs and accumulated in the EKs. It will be a tough balance.

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Feel like the only way to make eternal kingdoms relevant is to make it a world that everyone is on. It could be like eve and they can all be gated to save memory or it could be like wow and just a huge world that we have to shape. But having everyone with an eternal kingdom sounds like a pvp survival game with a customize feature that isn't relevant to the game. 

Its kind of like gear in an mmo the only reason we grind for it, is so other players know not to f*ck with me. But if you can turn your eternal kingdom private it defeats the purpose. 

If they made the eternal kingdoms it's own world with its own rules and factions that would be the smart thing. Have three factions. These factions don't fight each other that are with the faction (alliance and horde). They all have a large area. They build within each other. Pvp happens in the eternal kingdoms and better yet give cw a portal that players need to use so a transportation guild can happen and escorts. People would need to do runs into campaign worlds to get gear and mats, people would need to do escorts and set up trade cities and crafting cities in the eternal kingdoms. Essentially making the whole thing usable. The eternal kingdom will have a server best, but the campaign worlds will be always changing and balances can happen if favor of the loser(s) of the last match. 

Tldr: if the eternal kingdoms were one world with three factions that were at war kind of like wow, with an open market like eve, and the ability for a faction to rise but not stay constant in campaign worlds things would make more sense

Edited by Faraven
New thought (and my grammar is awful)
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Reading your first posting, it feels like you are thinking about something like a space station in a universe, where you can trade stuff.

Thats not how EK's work.

I never played eve online, but i would guess that they tried to create mechanics that would make sense within a science fiction and space adventure lore.
 
Crowfall can't adopt this 1:1.

In Crowfall you are a crow, a choosen soul, fighting on behalf of the goods, in worlds which are currently getting consumed by the hunger - trying to rule the other factions (on behalf of your group/faction/god) and/or to get as much resources as you can out of this mess.
The eternals lands are a safe place the gods gave to you so you can lick your wounds between those endless fights. What you make out of them, how you use them, thats your own choice.
 
Maybe you use it as a small personal and private safe haven; just some woods and a small hut. Or maybe you invite some friends to join. Maybe you build some kind of a club(guild) house for people you like or depend on. Or maybe you even try to build a prominent and striving city -- or even a world. It's on you.

But EK's are not directly connected to the campaign worlds, at least not like space stations would be connected to a surrounding universe.
EK's are serving the purpose of private housing, of building homes for a group, of showing off about your success in the CW's, of socializing in general and of (limited) trading.

Their purpose is not to be rigging stations. Due to the import and decay rules, most of the equipment has necessarily to be acquired within the campaign worlds themselves.
In some (most) campaigns you will be able to import some stuff from your account bank ... but thats not true for all worlds and it is always restricted. And even the stuff you import will decay.
 
So, within the Crowfall concept it is not necessary to make EK's "relevant to the game". They are not. They are not meant to be. They are the place where you go when the battle is over. To relax, to meet some friends, to have (mostly non-lethal) fun, to trade some stuff. They are more like a holodeck than a space station ... a world on a different level.

If you really want to trade stuff which has a real meaning for what people would usually call "the game" (to say: the campaign worlds (because that is where you win and loose)), you would have to to this ... in the campaign worlds. Sure, you may build a trading hub in the eternal kingdoms. But it won't have a direct influence on campaigns/the game; meaning: less enthusiastic/addited customers.

Both ways, building serious trading hubs will need a lot of work. In the CW's you would have to organize enough troups to make your trade hub really save. It's a PvP world, isn't it? In the EK's you would have to make it big enough (strongholds, parcels, houses,...) and to get enough people into it, to make it a striving place, people would want to visit and to participate in.

Crowfall is aiming for a player driven economy. You want to get something? Then make it happen. Crowfall provides the possibilities - not the result. It will always need a lot of work to realize an outstanding result. The bigger the risk, the bigger the possible rewards. Reducing the risk needs a lot of work/people/talent. Either you got it - or you don't. That's probably the most fundamental baseline of Crowfall - in any field of the game. So ...
 
have fun, good luck ;)
Kraahk
 
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On 3/10/2017 at 1:13 PM, Faraven said:

If they made the eternal kingdoms it's own world with its own rules and factions that would be the smart thing. Have three factions. These factions don't fight each other that are with the faction (alliance and horde). They all have a large area. They build within each other. Pvp happens in the eternal kingdoms and better yet give cw a portal that players need to use so a transportation guild can happen and escorts. People would need to do runs into campaign worlds to get gear and mats, people would need to do escorts and set up trade cities and crafting cities in the eternal kingdoms. Essentially making the whole thing usable. The eternal kingdom will have a server best, but the campaign worlds will be always changing and balances can happen if favor of the loser(s) of the last match.

This is essentially the ruleset of the most outerband of the CW's (chaos, balance and order faction fighting it out, but with the twist that balance have to ensure that chaos and order have an about even amount of control by the end of the campaign and thus will be working with both the other factions thorughout to ensure that.

 

The EK is more alike to a player owned house in other MMO's except you get a whole kingdom instead of a single house

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm going to chime in because I'm one of those players that does believe that Crowfall could have a 1:1 model with EvE.  EvE has 0.0 and wormhole systems, Crowfall has Campaigns; EvE has hi-sec systems, Crowfall has EKs; EvE has pods, Crowfall has crows; EvE has ships, Crowfall has vessels. 

I would love to see some neutral trading happening within each campaign, however small changes are needed.  You could never have a 100% winner take all approach, you need a minimum of at least 25% of goods to be exported for just participating in the CW.  This allows neutral/non-guilded traders/merchants/crafters to export the most valuable items they want in order to continue making/trading in EKs.  The winners then get a bonus for winning of double any raw materials they saved in the embargo, and they get to keep all items.

The other part is we need to take away the lobby, and then move to portals that are initiated within each players EK.  This brings us even closer to the EvE model, where ships jump through gates to get to a system, and vessels use portals to join campaigns.  We know that a crow can join up to 3 different campaigns, so it would be great to have a portal that takes you back to your EK instead of having to go through the lobby; just bypass the lobby altogether.

The war between guilds will not stop just because a campaign stops, and there should be economic wars going on all the time in the EKs between guilds, or solo investors wanting to see their profits go higher.  The importing of new items into a fresh campaign (via the dying worlds mechanic) was to help hinder the "uncle Bob" effect.  EKs and Campaigns could really be thought of as just different systems like in EvE, and our houses/buildings/castles are the stations of EvE within each system.

Edited by Teufel

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 2:39 PM, Kraahk said:
 
Reading your first posting, it feels like you are thinking about something like a space station in a universe, where you can trade stuff.

Thats not how EK's work.

I never played eve online, but i would guess that they tried to create mechanics that would make sense within a science fiction and space adventure lore.
 
Crowfall can't adopt this 1:1.

In Crowfall you are a crow, a choosen soul, fighting on behalf of the goods, in worlds which are currently getting consumed by the hunger - trying to rule the other factions (on behalf of your group/faction/god) and/or to get as much resources as you can out of this mess.
The eternals lands are a safe place the gods gave to you so you can lick your wounds between those endless fights. What you make out of them, how you use them, thats your own choice.
 
Maybe you use it as a small personal and private safe haven; just some woods and a small hut. Or maybe you invite some friends to join. Maybe you build some kind of a club(guild) house for people you like or depend on. Or maybe you even try to build a prominent and striving city -- or even a world. It's on you.

But EK's are not directly connected to the campaign worlds, at least not like space stations would be connected to a surrounding universe.
EK's are serving the purpose of private housing, of building homes for a group, of showing off about your success in the CW's, of socializing in general and of (limited) trading.

Their purpose is not to be rigging stations. Due to the import and decay rules, most of the equipment has necessarily to be acquired within the campaign worlds themselves.
In some (most) campaigns you will be able to import some stuff from your account bank ... but thats not true for all worlds and it is always restricted. And even the stuff you import will decay.
 
So, within the Crowfall concept it is not necessary to make EK's "relevant to the game". They are not. They are not meant to be. They are the place where you go when the battle is over. To relax, to meet some friends, to have (mostly non-lethal) fun, to trade some stuff. They are more like a holodeck than a space station ... a world on a different level.

If you really want to trade stuff which has a real meaning for what people would usually call "the game" (to say: the campaign worlds (because that is where you win and loose)), you would have to to this ... in the campaign worlds. Sure, you may build a trading hub in the eternal kingdoms. But it won't have a direct influence on campaigns/the game; meaning: less enthusiastic/addited customers.

Both ways, building serious trading hubs will need a lot of work. In the CW's you would have to organize enough troups to make your trade hub really save. It's a PvP world, isn't it? In the EK's you would have to make it big enough (strongholds, parcels, houses,...) and to get enough people into it, to make it a striving place, people would want to visit and to participate in.

Crowfall is aiming for a player driven economy. You want to get something? Then make it happen. Crowfall provides the possibilities - not the result. It will always need a lot of work to realize an outstanding result. The bigger the risk, the bigger the possible rewards. Reducing the risk needs a lot of work/people/talent. Either you got it - or you don't. That's probably the most fundamental baseline of Crowfall - in any field of the game. So ...
 
have fun, good luck ;)
Kraahk
 

When I read the OP the essential question I get is better phrased:  What is the point of building a big, impressive, vast city full to of towers and castles, and populated by my guildies...a monument to our power and prestige...if no one else can see it?  The whole point of prestige is for other people to know about it.  Otherwise it's not all that prestigious.

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On 4.10.2017 at 8:39 PM, Kraahk said:

But EK's are not directly connected to the campaign worlds, at least not like space stations would be connected to a surrounding universe.

didnt someone from ACE mention that they want to connect EK´s to the CW´s and make travelling between them possible?

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3 hours ago, elvo said:

didnt someone from ACE mention that they want to connect EK´s to the CW´s and make travelling between them possible?

not that i know of. asfaik, they think about the possibility to connect EK's with other EK's. and that long ago they talked about the idea (like: oh yea, thats a nice idea) of being able to put EK's into campaign worlds to complement the standard maps. but both were only ideas. and while the first one is more likely to happen, there is no guarantee that anything of those will happen soon ... or even at all.

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/4/2017 at 11:39 AM, Kraahk said:
 
Reading your first posting, it feels like you are thinking about something like a space station in a universe, where you can trade stuff.

Thats not how EK's work.

I never played eve online, but i would guess that they tried to create mechanics that would make sense within a science fiction and space adventure lore.
 
Crowfall can't adopt this 1:1.

In Crowfall you are a crow, a choosen soul, fighting on behalf of the goods, in worlds which are currently getting consumed by the hunger - trying to rule the other factions (on behalf of your group/faction/god) and/or to get as much resources as you can out of this mess.
The eternals lands are a safe place the gods gave to you so you can lick your wounds between those endless fights. What you make out of them, how you use them, thats your own choice.
 
Maybe you use it as a small personal and private safe haven; just some woods and a small hut. Or maybe you invite some friends to join. Maybe you build some kind of a club(guild) house for people you like or depend on. Or maybe you even try to build a prominent and striving city -- or even a world. It's on you.

But EK's are not directly connected to the campaign worlds, at least not like space stations would be connected to a surrounding universe.
EK's are serving the purpose of private housing, of building homes for a group, of showing off about your success in the CW's, of socializing in general and of (limited) trading.

Their purpose is not to be rigging stations. Due to the import and decay rules, most of the equipment has necessarily to be acquired within the campaign worlds themselves.
In some (most) campaigns you will be able to import some stuff from your account bank ... but thats not true for all worlds and it is always restricted. And even the stuff you import will decay.
 
So, within the Crowfall concept it is not necessary to make EK's "relevant to the game". They are not. They are not meant to be. They are the place where you go when the battle is over. To relax, to meet some friends, to have (mostly non-lethal) fun, to trade some stuff. They are more like a holodeck than a space station ... a world on a different level.

If you really want to trade stuff which has a real meaning for what people would usually call "the game" (to say: the campaign worlds (because that is where you win and loose)), you would have to to this ... in the campaign worlds. Sure, you may build a trading hub in the eternal kingdoms. But it won't have a direct influence on campaigns/the game; meaning: less enthusiastic/addited customers.

Both ways, building serious trading hubs will need a lot of work. In the CW's you would have to organize enough troups to make your trade hub really save. It's a PvP world, isn't it? In the EK's you would have to make it big enough (strongholds, parcels, houses,...) and to get enough people into it, to make it a striving place, people would want to visit and to participate in.

Crowfall is aiming for a player driven economy. You want to get something? Then make it happen. Crowfall provides the possibilities - not the result. It will always need a lot of work to realize an outstanding result. The bigger the risk, the bigger the possible rewards. Reducing the risk needs a lot of work/people/talent. Either you got it - or you don't. That's probably the most fundamental baseline of Crowfall - in any field of the game. So ...
 
have fun, good luck ;)
Kraahk
 

Thanks for the explanation.  I hope the concept of the EK you described changes because based on your description, it sounds pretty pointless which sucks because I dropped some real life money on the amber pledge just so I could get some land and what not and after reading your description I began to seriously doubt if it was money well spent.  The game is still in the early stages and I will give it a shot but It would be great if EK's played a role in the big scheme of things.  connect them to each other and to the world at large you know that kind of thing.  some of these later posts had some good ideas.   thank you.  

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On ‎07‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 4:44 AM, Drizzzt said:

Thanks for the explanation.  I hope the concept of the EK you described changes because based on your description, it sounds pretty pointless which sucks because I dropped some real life money on the amber pledge just so I could get some land and what not and after reading your description I began to seriously doubt if it was money well spent.  The game is still in the early stages and I will give it a shot but It would be great if EK's played a role in the big scheme of things.  connect them to each other and to the world at large you know that kind of thing.  some of these later posts had some good ideas.   thank you.  

 
Welcome to the forums.
 
Well, thats the second time i hear that this posting of mine discouraged someone about the EK's. That was not my intention. I love the EK's. They are the reason why i initially backed this game. And most of my Crowfall time i will spent in them.
 
But i think it generally is important to understand what you buy if you buy something. Not just regarding EK's in Crowfall. It is always better to know enough, than to be disappointed later and having a bad feeling about the company because it feels like they promised something they didn't deliver. For both the buyer and the seller. And there is not a lot of excuses for being disappointed anymore, for today we know a lot more about EK's than in the early days of development.
 
One of the crucial points is that EK's can not be connected to the CW's much more. At least not without causing a poorly made socksstorm about this game being a pure pay to win game.
 
I said "not much more". Meaning, there is a certain degree of connection. And EK's can and will be important for some campaigns. And there are possible ways to get them a little bit more connected to the campaign worlds.
 
Some examples for this have already been discussed. So is it hechnically possible to import whole EK's into campaign worlds. A (special) campaign world could consist only of EK's. Or some EKs who fight against each other. Or just two EK's as neutral capitols within a huge campaign world with pvp set off within their boundaries. There could be city tournaments, to determine the king of the universe. This is all possible. And - the devs already said they could imagine something like this happen.
 
Only that something like this (in my opinon) is unlikely to happen soon. They have to get the game out. Being in pre-alpha doesn't mean that there still is a lot of leeway for huge changes. Huge changes would easily set back development by one more year. Nobody wants that - we want the game. And regarding this topic it is not necessary to implement those things now.  It's not crucial for the basic game. And Crowfalls principle game design allows a certain degree of experimentation even after release - when things are rolling and ACE has time to refine things. 
 
So again, i don't want to discourage anyone about EK's. Ilove them. Regarding EK's, i am full in. But ... i know what i do. And anyone else should also know what they do, with the grade of knowledge corresponding to the sum they want to spent for the development of this game.
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EK's will influence CWs through import rules, and will be used as major trade hubs so long as campaigns with imports are popular.  So, will EKs be relevant to the Dregs?  Probably not.  Will they be relevant to God's Reach or the Order v Balance v Chaos campaigns?  You bet!

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  • 1 month later...
4 minutes ago, marvelkratt said:

Hello,

Can I drop banestone on some guild citys and bash it down with trebs?

Dont forget, this is about the eternal kingdoms (player housing) and not about the campaign worlds. Banestones are part of some campaign rules.

But early concept arts did show checkboxes to turn PvP on/off. So maybe it will be possible if the king chooses to allow it. Maybe not. I doubt that it will happen. At least not on a short term. There are a lot of more things to do that are much more important.

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