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What We Want


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The first thing in creating characters for simulated battles is deciding the best manner of battle.  As the developer, don't get caught in the trick of jumping to the part where you assign a cool set of abilities to a character model because "they're cooool!"  That's the trap; putting the micro-horse ahead of the macro-carriage.  Frst thing, write down with permanent marker on your Dry Erase Board in your Thinktank room the subject line "What We Want" followed by the 3 meta answers; so you never lose them while creating the host of micros to come.  Each micro should slot into a skill sync that fits into a player strat that slots into a team strat that fits into the 3 meta answers to "What We Want."

Crowfall.  It's core is battle, so what you need to do way before character-creation is decide "What do I want battle to look like?"  For Example:  Remember the 10v10 meta "All stack on the healer!" in SB?  What was the closest answer to that non-interactive form of battle?  Unfriendly AOE's (but more often Shadow Mantle followed by debuffs.  Unfriendly AoE's were not prevalent / powerful enough to prevent the stack.  Standing in a stack playing "Shadow Mantle" versus "Remove Debuffs," was not optimum battle.  How did this situation occur?  Because "What We Want" got lost in "Let's make a cool AoE HoT (among other stacking heals etc...)"  

In contrast to "this ability-set is sooo coool!" character creation should actually inspire little to no emotive response from the Lead Developer.  Here is the right response, "This (new character) is both balanced-by-the-numbers and uniquely integral, thus it has a place; so I guess it's strong."

I'll tell you what I would do if this was my project.  First, I would decide all the intangibles I wanted to create.  Momentum, Tempo, Threat.  If my battle contains elements to variances of Momentum, Tempo, and Threat, I think the battlers come away with a cool feeling.  Ftr, I would also add other optional yet more complex variances such as Scaling (Eventuality) and character-sourced Objective Control.

I think devs too often just skip to the parts they can understand.  Their view of players is that players just want to trigger a cool ability and watch it play out in a field of other players who are hitting their buttons to do cool stuff.  Half will win and half will lose, but at least everyone was afforded a place on the field to hit their buttons.  However, that spike quickly fades.  Memorable battles are the ones where the battlers feel the intangibles.  If you can create that, good job because your game is now forever. 

The real game is played out before the players ever take the field; it's the game that pits the devs' threshold to their maximum level of understanding and control.  Believe it or not, the process of creating is real. 

 

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Personally, I really don't like it when anyone stands up and say's "WE" about wants and desires, no matter what is being said. I don't remember anyone electing Monx as a representative, and I'll

what we want? cute flatchested moon elves of course, duh

The first thing in creating characters for simulated battles is deciding the best manner of battle.  As the developer, don't get caught in the trick of jumping to the part where you assign a cool set

2 hours ago, elvo said:

what we want?

cute flatchested moon elves of course, duh

And where do we want them?

In our bedchambers!

 

Anyway... @Monx brings up some good points about the structure of brainstorming and developing powers and classes, and how it can affect the gameplay experience... You present a good argument for putting balance before cool factor; the people who play the game are more than capable of finding the fun themselves, especially if the base that they're playing on is well-structured and allows each player to have meaningful interactions that don't overshadow everyone else's. Unfortunately I'm not qualified enough to know how these things idealistically play out on the Devs' side of the whiteboard nor the specifics of how it actually plays out, with ACE or any other company, but I'd imagine that ACE already have these self-checks in place. This isn't their first rodeo after all, but I do feel like it's a good idea to make sure that game balance is kept in the forefront of the Devs' minds at least as much as "cool/fun factor".

 

As for the Devs remaining dispassionate about their creations (that's not going to happen), and players wanting to throw around cool abilities and see it play out with other people and their cool abilities... It's just in our nature; we're emotional creatures who love to manipulate our environments, solve problems and be surrounded with exciting stimuli! That doesn't mean we shouldn't exercise restraint and aim for something that's objectively balanced, of course, but all these things aren't mutually exclusive - just gotta get the priorities right and walk the tightrope.

Edited by Xarrayne

:^)

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Personally, I really don't like it when anyone stands up and say's "WE" about wants and desires, no matter what is being said.

I don't remember anyone electing Monx as a representative, and I'll speak for myself thank you very much.

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43 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Personally, I really don't like it when anyone stands up and say's "WE" about wants and desires, no matter what is being said.

I don't remember anyone electing Monx as a representative, and I'll speak for myself thank you very much.

Ah yea! You sir get a certified ATABOY.

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46 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Personally, I really don't like it when anyone stands up and say's "WE" about wants and desires, no matter what is being said.

I don't remember anyone electing Monx as a representative, and I'll speak for myself thank you very much.

Admittedly I have done this on these forums and probably shouldn't.

Edited by entityofsin
misspelling

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14 minutes ago, entityofsin said:

Admittedly I have done this on these forums and probably should.

I'm certain you could find a few posts where I also make the mistake and attempt to represent groups I consider myself part of, for example killer/achievers. I mean even that classification is too broad. Killers can be of many types, like the "stick a sword in them and drink their blood" variety, or the "I will economically crush you until you can no longer even play the game" variety.  Knowing how fractional of a group I count myself a part of, I make an honest effort to not project my opinions onto those I don't actually know and can't possibly represent.

It really rubs me the wrong way that the very first post by a user jumps straight to a "WE" in the title, and a wall of text, in the suggestion box, (what exactly was the specific suggestion? I really couldn't identify it),  when they are obviously new to being involved with the community.

I've seen many dozens of first posts that simply say, "as a new player, this is what I think/experienced/like", and those are fine.  But claiming a "we" in the suggestion forum, I'll just say it makes a really bad first impression on me.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

But it really rubs me the wrong way that the very first post by a user jumps straight to a "WE" in the title, and a wall of text, when they are obviously new to being involved with the community.

The thing that really annoyed me about this thread was how the OP is basically declaring how things should be done. The impression I got was to get rid of AOE attacks. It just makes my brain go numb when I see this kind of stuff.

I am right there though with you. I don't like someone representing me without asking first.

So what I would like is for people not to represent me and if they want my opinion they can come ask me. :)

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2 minutes ago, entityofsin said:

The thing that really annoyed me about this thread was how the OP is basically declaring how things should be done. The impression I got was to get rid of AOE attacks. It just makes my brain go numb when I see this kind of stuff.

I am right there though with you. I don't like someone representing me without asking first.

So what I would like is for people not to represent me and if they want my opinion they can come ask me. :)

It is all about ME and my desires . While I am a crowfall player / Tester i do not represent the entire group. If there were thousands of me... EWW what a world it would be.

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4 minutes ago, dolmar said:

It is all about ME and my desires . While I am a crowfall player / Tester i do not represent the entire group. If there were thousands of me... EWW what a world it would be.

XtxGoon.jpg

Hope I don't get flagged for this, but I just couldn't resist.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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17 hours ago, Xarrayne said:

And where do we want them?

In our bedchambers!

 

Anyway... @Monx brings up some good points about the structure of brainstorming and developing powers and classes, and how it can affect the gameplay experience... You present a good argument for putting balance before cool factor; the people who play the game are more than capable of finding the fun themselves, especially if the base that they're playing on is well-structured and allows each player to have meaningful interactions that don't overshadow everyone else's. Unfortunately I'm not qualified enough to know how these things idealistically play out on the Devs' side of the whiteboard nor the specifics of how it actually plays out, with ACE or any other company, but I'd imagine that ACE already have these self-checks in place. This isn't their first rodeo after all, but I do feel like it's a good idea to make sure that game balance is kept in the forefront of the Devs' minds at least as much as "cool/fun factor".

 

As for the Devs remaining dispassionate about their creations (that's not going to happen), and players wanting to throw around cool abilities and see it play out with other people and their cool abilities... It's just in our nature; we're emotional creatures who love to manipulate our environments, solve problems and be surrounded with exciting stimuli! That doesn't mean we shouldn't exercise restraint and aim for something that's objectively balanced, of course, but all these things aren't mutually exclusive - just gotta get the priorities right and walk the tightrope.

agreed, cool and fun abilities are essential as much as a certain amount of balance. No matter if everything is perfectly balanced, if the abilities you can throw around is not cool, fun and impressive looking, you wont really get attached the the game, so those things are SUPER important to new players specially, and then comes the balance after to keep the ppl that already got interested, to stay for the long haul. Also having cool and impressive looking abilities, done in the right kind of cool and impressive, can help making it clear at a glance what they do, and how big their target of effect is

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i think the op is correct regarding one thing, if u pick a meta goal first and then go and create w/e u do, u are more likely to achieve ur goal. compared to just go for style. maybe they already did that, idk. but in genereal i agree that a good centered developed battle is more fun, then just i got a that is cool and b that is also cool, let's see what happens.

and the usual forum ppl like to be how they are, but they also have a point don't assume a we. but funnily enough, they also do it :D

if u look at general prinicipels and behind what the op seems to imply , one can see the merits of the post.

but i don't quite get, why u say it. i mean, development has come quite a way already and reimagining it doesn't seem necessary yet, besides ur past experience. maybe u have reasons that are actually based in this game and the current state it is in ,or something the devs have said ,that leads u to be worried. for now it can only serve as a good reminder for the devs, to maybe check their baseline again. but no reason to overhaul everything that's already done. as somebody said before, we will always find something to enjoy in a game, or we just complain all day about everything that's against us.

or at least some do :P

#mirrormagic #backtotheop #useesomething? #noreasontoworrysomuch #chillurlife #messagewithvalue #nospamm

 

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