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"Death of a Game - Shadowbane"


Deioth
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Seems rather relevant.  I'm rather impressed, actually, after watching it realizing just how much Todd is actively working to avoid literally every pitfall described in the video that lead to Shadowbane dying.  We have Campaign Worlds that allow players to choose their preferred playstyle, that being RvRvR, multi faction, GvG, or FFA (the latter two encompassing Shadowbane's original gameplay).  The CWs also ensure that no stalemates occurs of only a handful of big hardcore guilds left with no more political intrigue or smaller guilds or more casual players.  They're using an established engine with Unity rather than their own.  But, then they're bringing in everything that made Shadowbane so good and unique in the first place, such as the rather drastic amount of individual customization of classes and builds.

In interesting watch all around, makes me more excited for CF in fact.

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He does make a mistake in that video:

He claims that the "Realms" added in the Throne of Oblivion expansion pack were an unwanted additions which referenced the Realm vs. Realm combat of DAoC. The Realms system wasn't anything of the sort, but rather a way for guilds and nations to lay further claim to a segment of the map. The realm owner could tax cities within his realm for some of the resources kept in their warehouses. Further, the realms helped to deal with the "problem" of too many cities blanketing the map by instituting limits on the number of cities which could be built within any given realm. It's not too big of a deal, but it stood out as something the youtuber just got wrong.

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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2 hours ago, soulein said:

He does make a mistake in that video:

He claims that the "Realms" added in the Throne of Oblivion expansion pack were an unwanted additions which referenced the Realm vs. Realm combat of DAoC. The Realms system wasn't anything of the sort, but rather a way for guilds and nations to lay further claim to a segment of the map. The realm owner could tax cities within his realm for some of the resources kept in their warehouses. Further, the realms helped to deal with the "problem" of too many cities blanketing the map by instituting limits on the number of cities which could be built within any given realm. It's not too big of a deal, but it stood out as something the youtuber just got wrong.

Very good and important point. In fact, Realms are a example of the kind of thing CF needs more of, not less, as a form of semi-persistence and higher-level guild influence than EKs or CWs seems like they will provide. Realms were most definitely not unwanted.

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I loved playing Shadowbane with Covenant of Swords on Treachery.  That previous experience with Todd and crew made me want to back Crowfall.  I like sandbox PvP games and have participated in a lot of them and looking forward to the Dregs.

The big turn off for me in Shadowbane was that large scale PvP turned into a slideshow.  It was good for small unit ganks and roaming around killing people leveling their toons.  However, server wide battles over banes was just too much for the game.

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3 minutes ago, Zolaz said:

However, server wide battles over banes was just too much for the game.

Which is, at this point, the main mistake from Shadowbane that Crowfall has yet to correct. Hopefully once the performance optimizations start ACE will able to produce smooth combat in large scale battles. It'll be even more important in Crowfall since we have aimed action combat and not tab target like Shadowbane. 

Blazzen <Lords of Death>

YouTube - Twitch - Guild

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Shadowbane died because of an inability of the game to run in a stable manner with mmo pvp populations alongside the fact that the entire service was hacked and many no longer felt safe with their CC information over there. 

GW understands the damage of hackers and will probably take as many precautions as money can afford to prevent hackers from ruining the game.

As far as the game running in a stable manner with mmo populations, crowfall is having the same issue.

Those are the reasons shadowbane died, nothing contributed more to the mass exodus of players early on than those 2 issues, and neither has been proven to be avoided yet. 

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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12 hours ago, soulein said:

He does make a mistake in that video:

He claims that the "Realms" added in the Throne of Oblivion expansion pack were an unwanted additions which referenced the Realm vs. Realm combat of DAoC. The Realms system wasn't anything of the sort, but rather a way for guilds and nations to lay further claim to a segment of the map. The realm owner could tax cities within his realm for some of the resources kept in their warehouses. Further, the realms helped to deal with the "problem" of too many cities blanketing the map by instituting limits on the number of cities which could be built within any given realm. It's not too big of a deal, but it stood out as something the youtuber just got wrong.

You're 100% correct. He simply doesn't understand what the addition of "realms" did in Shadowbane and jumps to conclusion that it had to function like DAoC RvR system. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's a serious failure on his part and shows his lack of knowledge of Shadowbane. 

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2 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Shadowbane died because of an inability of the game to run in a stable manner with mmo pvp populations alongside the fact that the entire service was hacked and many no longer felt safe with their CC information over there.

 

This is exactly true for a great many of us who left early on.  I had 15 months of Alpha/Beta play, but only 2 months after release due to those two reasons (sb.exe and duping/teleport hacks).

rSHxVEY.gif

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The only question we have to answer is

 

”Will we get as excited about fighting over temporary real estate as we did about permanent holdings?”

 

ps St Malorn told me to remind you elves that he hasn’t forgotten about you....

Edited by PaleOne

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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The video brought back some memories.

 

One of them was a warlock based team template called “the Death Star”

Full groups of warlocks overflying the battlefield calling targets :)

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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21 hours ago, blazzen said:

Hopefully once the performance optimizations start ACE will able to produce smooth combat in large scale battles. It'll be even more important in Crowfall since we have aimed action combat and not tab target like Shadowbane. 

My single biggest concern right there.

Campaigns can be adjusted by rule and time frame, great idea. Eternal Kingdoms and the crafting/gathering system should help with "Sheep Retention", which was the largest contributor to Shadowbane's failure other than performance.

I'll say it again, there will be large nations, alliances and more than likely "Server Wars". There will be Two and three hundred man sieges. Optimization is paramount. 

Nice to see Winterblades get a mention! For any that have not read the history, I recommend it! Entertaining.

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23 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Shadowbane died because of an inability of the game to run in a stable manner with mmo pvp populations alongside the fact that the entire service was hacked and many no longer felt safe with their CC information over there. 

I never heard anything about CC info being hacked during Shadowbane.  

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Yea, their service was hacked, and people were concerned about their CC info with a company that could have their entire game service hacked.  I guess you just had to be in the know and have an accurate read on the pulse of the community back then to understand why people were leaving.  Not everyone seems to remember things very well.

Heck there are some people in this thread that even tried to downplay the problem of sb.exe before and the frequency at which it occurred in large battles.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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2 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Yea, their service was hacked, and people were concerned about their CC info with a company that could have their entire game service hacked.  I guess you just had to be in the know and have an accurate read on the pulse of the community back then to understand why people were leaving.  Not everyone seems to remember things very well.

Heck there are some people in this thread that even tried to downplay the problem of sb.exe before and the frequency at which it occurred in large battles.

"Service hacked" and "people concerned about their CC info" is not the same thing as a hack of people's CC information. Considering how quickly you left the game VN...I'm surprised you remember anything about it at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you never experienced mine fights, harvesters, warehouses, seneschal, realm claiming, realm charters, hermits, taxation, lore charters, lore play, Nephilim, Vampires, Nightstalkers, Necrmancers, Sappers, Saboteurs, Sanctifiers, Strigoi, Sentinels, Doomsayers, R8 Epics (like Vranaxxas, Shuggroth M'ael and Ithriana), ballista, mangonels, artillery towers, Vorgrim gear, Tears of Saedron (respecing) Bloodstone, Galvor, Woormwood, glass weapons, Dalgoth, Vorringia...etc...etc....etc.  You certainly can comment on why you left the game after 3 months...or had the attention span of 12 year old with ADD...but perhaps you should leave the reminiscing about Shadowbane to those who actually played the game and know what they are talking about.

Edited by Gradishar
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39 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

"Service hacked" and "people concerned about their CC info" is not the same thing as a hack of people's CC information. Considering how quickly you left the game VN...I'm surprised you remember anything about it at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you never experienced mine fights, harvesters, warehouses, seneschal, realm claiming, realm charters, hermits, taxation, lore charters, lore play, Nephilim, Vampires, Nightstalkers, Necrmancers, Sappers, Saboteurs, Sanctifiers, Strigoi, Sentinels, Doomsayers, R8 Epics (like Vranaxxas, Shuggroth M'ael and Ithriana), ballista, mangonels, artillery towers, Vorgrim gear, Tears of Saedron (respecing) Bloodstone, Galvor, Woormwood, glass weapons, Dalgoth, Vorringia...etc...etc....etc.  You certainly can comment on why you left the game after 3 months...or had the attention span of 12 year old with ADD...but perhaps you should leave the reminiscing about Shadowbane to those who actually played the game and know what they are talking about.

Yea, which is weird, because I never said there was a hack of people's cc information.  Perhaps if people could read better they would also be able to remember things better. 

You should also try to keep your posts away from petty personal attacks instead of the hurr durr 12 year old add crap.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Yea, which is weird, because I never said there was a hack of people's cc information.  Perhaps if people could read better they would also be able to remember things better. 

You should also try to keep your posts away from petty personal attacks instead of the hurr durr 12 year old add crap.

Some introspection into why just about every forum thread here involving you devolves into posts like that would probably be useful.

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On 10/31/2017 at 11:55 AM, PaleOne said:

”Will we get as excited about fighting over temporary real estate as we did about permanent holdings?”

Shouldn't we conclude from this video that the permanence of those holdings was an illusion? A full-circle back to early kickstarter discussions. The choice to give campaigns an end and winners is elegant, and probably the single best idea coming out of ACE's Crowfall MMORPG vision, IMO.

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