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Durin

The problem of focus/effort/intensity

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15 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Or maybe you just don't have a good perspective on where things are at with the game?  Does crowfall look like it's making waves and attracting tons of new players with the progress it has made? 

Does it look like top notch pvpers are dying to play it and excited for it? 

There's a reason it doesn't look like that. 

This is more a factor of the "openness" of production...   other games have hype based on what the devs show you, here we see it every test so there is no comparison.  CF is unique in giving us far more inside knowledge that any other game pre-beta release.

I think there is ebbs and flows of hype, how many top notch players are playing Camelot Unchained at this point?   none, zero, zip...  because there is not a regular public testing environment...   YET.   We simply are not at the point where players come to PLAY the game...   if you could call it that.   Most of the game loops are missing crucial elements, so players holding off should be the norm.  AoC has all the hype right now and nothing even close to a testing environment like we have... players aren't even close to PLAYING that either.

We have major mechanics to add and test before people should even be "dying" to play because for certain, none of us PLAY Crowfall, we TEST it...   (you got your cart way in front of your horse).  If you come to Crowfall with expectations of PLAYING rather than TESTING, you are in for a fall...   soon though, always soon.

The reason is that those players are smart enough to wait until launch before having any expectation that this is about playing the game...   you, not so much.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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52 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Or maybe you just don't have a good perspective on where things are at with the game?  Does crowfall look like it's making waves and attracting tons of new players with the progress it has made? 

Does it look like top notch pvpers are dying to play it and excited for it? 

There's a reason it doesn't look like that. 


Crowfall is and has always been designed to be a game for fand of old school consequence heavy PvP games like Shadowbane, EVE, AoC, UO etc. that are typically low skill cap games in the first place because the focus of the game is strategic planning, field command, and spec group execution where the primary challenge isn't APM or mouse targeting accuracy as much as it is the ability to read and quickly and correctly respond to a highly complex battlefield scenario and work as cohesive units by issuing and following directives well.

In that space I'd say your "top notch pvpers" (as in, those who still do it regularly) Would be guys like Rooks & Kings and a couple other mid-tier nullsec and wormhole corps in EVE, the guys who can't boast the numbers to challenge the bigger blocs like TEST or Goons, but enjoy success and holdings in adjacent space through ingenuity and exploiting their smaller and more nimble organization's ability to quickly design, test, and deploy new fleet comps without being wiped off the map, and who more often than not fight outnumbered and take home clear economic victoreis.

These are people who have literally no incentive to swap to a new game because they're built entire organizations around an environment of persistance, how to exploit and thrive in that persistance, and continue to do so because they value that status. It has nothing to do with how good a game CF is. Good sandbox PvP games don't leave people much time to do more than one, and people who are winning in those environments don't usually leave them unless they're winning so hard there's nothing left for them to fight.

So, I guess I'll ask who these "top pvpers" are you're talking about.

You mean, like, esports people?

Esports people aren't exactly big in to game types with long term scoreboards, or matches that last longer than an hour. There's no ESL scoreboard, and these types of games don't generally favor their type of individual skillsets when it comes down to actual victory conditions. The "best pvpers" in sandbox pvp games are generally not the people winning the game, and the "best pvpers" are often more concerned with a fair environment to display individual or team skill than an extended length wargame where making fights unfair in your favor is the whole point of the game.

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1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

nyCamelot unchained will be entering beta soon enough.  Ashes of creation has much better combat.  What those games lack?  Brutal rulesets, that USED to be what CF was going to provide over them, now CF is just softened and those games will easily outperform CF.

Neither of these games have playable tests going yet nor do we have any real knowledge of the combat systems and balance.   I know Steven Sharif personally and played with him daily in Archeage and one thing I do know is that he is a marketing guy...  he sold you on a combat system that you haven't even touched yet and has no working tests nor shows any PvP play, he is very, very good at that.  Neither of these games have ANY actual PvP videos so how do you make any real comparisons.  We know AoC will have some tab targeting, isn't that easy mode PvP? Videos of CU aren't any more revealing...   Crowfall is the only one of these three games that shows actual players, not devs or media people, releasing videos of PvP battles.   I simply don't think that you are involved or testing the game enough to spout the drivel you do.   CF has not softened at all imho...  we will get the hardcore ruleset servers after we have faction based CWs working right.  I think you are the one with zero perspective and a lot of hot air on the forums for how much time you spend helping make this work better through the testing.

Edited by Frykka

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14 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Crowfall will not attract the best guilds, the skill-ceiling is far too low.  Any respectable pvp mmorpg would attract at least the best mmorpg pvp guilds, crowfall doesn't have what it takes to do that. 

Could you name a few "best MMO guilds?" How do you determine what makes them the best?

14 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

You mean beyond the kickstarter where they presented a vision that has been changed (for the worst) almost beyond recognition at this point?

Such as? They removed or altered a few features, but for the most part, it wasn't 100% clear what it was to become. Voxels being one the missing elements from KS. This "vision" is likely what you imagined, not reality.

Time commitment = hard has always been something casuals think, hardcore players have always cared about the challenge required to succeed.

Which means what? Beyond time commitment and tedious tasks, what makes a challenge that can be created by the devs specifically to cater to such a crowd?

What they have now is below wow's skill-ceiling and it is the year 2017 and this is supposed ot be an mmorpg focused on pvp.

WoW's combat and CFs are rather different. CF's is also still a WIP and WoW's continues to evolve/devolve over time. If you want a screen full of abilities and twitchy spam combat, CF likely isn't the best choice. Doesn't mean it requires no skill or that players can't challenge one another. If you win 100% of the time, guess you are the best, but I highly believe that is possible even for someone like. If you do, probably time to move on to a game that specifically focuses on skills that you value. I've heard there are entire leagues dedicated to such things. WoW's skill ceiling for land control, siege warfare, political backstabbing, 24/7 open world PVP is rather low, but I doubt those that play care.

Long term planning would be relevant if the game ended up with 1million players.  The game probably won't have the population now to get the big machine going.  It will more likely play like a small population pvp game, where people are just trying to squeeze out the most they can knowing there isn't a great future ahead.

Might be. Still, guilds that attempt to win multiple CWs at once and over time will likely have a different strat then those hopping into the harshest Dregs style which could resemble more of a lobby experience. Get it, win/lose, repeat. Building up resources, import/exporting goods, choosing to take a loss for some return early on, etc will probably be more factors for other types of long term play.

That's a pretty big if.

I agree.

However, there is still room for a variety of player types and skills vs say PUBG or League where the skill set is more focused, and has a higher ceiling in some areas and non-existent in others. No game is going to be able to do everything well or even include it all, compromises have to be made. 

This is basically just trying to set the bar so ridiculously low.  Crowfall will never be an esport level game, but it doesn't have to be worse than mmorpgs that came out over a decade ago.

The issue I see with that is what is good/bad is subjective. To say it will be worse than a decade old game requires parameters to be set. Even if you break games down into categories to rate, this is still subjective to who is creating the categories, how they judge, what is included, etc. To me, DAoC was a better game than WoW for PVP, yet I believe WoW is a better game overall. Then again, I don't play either because neither is up to my standards of today. You can cherry pick whatever you want, but it is personal.

Even if "the best PVPers ever" decide X is the best game for them, that doesn't make it so for everyone.

Is Overwatch better than League? Is League better than PUBG? Is PUBG better than WoW? Is DAoC better than Dota?

CF will not be the best game ever or best PVP game ever as there is no such thing. If you believe otherwise, not sure what to say.

Nah, my "opinion" has always been fairly accurate as far as each step of development went.  Most of the people on the forum have projected inaccurate visions without accurately reading the information ACE was sharing up to any given point.  To say that the game being presented to you in the KS is similar to the game being presented now is just not accurate. 

Again, please specify. KS is still up for everyone to read and easily make comparisons to. 

My initial and on going "vision" was based on the initial manifesto or whatever they released. However, I'm aware enough to know that it really didn't say much and it was just my hopes taking center stage.

If you knew what was to come and one prediction after another came true, seems like you are just asking to be let down by not walking away. Unless you are looking for a sub par experience to be miserable in?

The combat has gone through gigantic changes good and bad at times.  The game design has changed to where there probably won't even be true dregs ffa anymore, characters and training are now account wide.  The size of each campaign has been cut in half or perhaps even more as far as expectations go. 

FFA is still entirely possible, flip it on, done. Very obvious from early on that they weren't designing the entire game/combat around FFA as it would require an entirely different model. Flip it on and you and your pro players will figure it out.

Campaign size, is what it is, but not sure why a game with a smaller population would need huge CWs. What people expected is of no matter.

Characters/training account wide was a big change, but doesn't really make a huge difference beyond having to juggle multiple characters on one account vs multiple accounts. Those that want that experience can still do so.

Combat went through one large change IMO from the initial flop to what it is (obviously has evolved). I don't believe it is the best MMO combat I've experienced, but didn't expect it to be and still don't. For what it is, it works and will fit the overall game design if all the other features deliver on their ends as well. Believing it would be something entirely different, but it combat style or skill ceiling is from player minds, not reality. Still would prefer more physics and what not, but Unity/devs don't seem to bring this possibility.

The bar will be reflected with what kind of players they attract.  Right now they don't have a product that is attracting good pvpers.

Beating the dead centaur, but good MMO players are created in each game. There isn't an easy way to attract X player from Y game specifically without copy/pasting features that they like, which might have zilch to do with CF. The idea that CF needs these elusive unnameable players to succeed is yours to hold on to, but no evidence it is true. Players good/bad that enjoy PVP or features CF will have can try it out and stay or not. The bar will be set by the players as they create it. Devs can only create artificial gamey bars to reach, what players do with them is what matters.

 

3 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

The chance of an mmorpg surviving a crappy launch is very low, the chance of them surviving even with a good launch isn't as high as you would think.

The game is straight up awful as it currently is. 

It currently isn't a "game." Comparing it to anything besides other projects still in the works is fairly pointless. Even elements like combat or how swinging at a tree works are still in progress and likely come off differently once all the pieces come together. No the "game" won't be amazing just because all the features are added, but games are a sum of their parts, if not, most wouldn't be going as they all have flaws.

Probably can count on one hand the games that have failed to survive. From UO on, most MMOs are still around. Those that aren't either aged out, lacked support, or had some glaring issues from the start that never were corrected. CF might fall into the last, but will have to see.

44 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Or maybe you just don't have a good perspective on where things are at with the game?  Does crowfall look like it's making waves and attracting tons of new players with the progress it has made? 

Does it look like top notch pvpers are dying to play it and excited for it? 

There's a reason it doesn't look like that. 

I agree.

One, "top notch PVPers" don't seem interested in MMOs. At least from reading the "We are the best PVPers ever" forum where such folks say what they want.

Two, no similar game is doing any better/worse really in this. There isn't a real comparison to point to and go "see that is what should be happening here." There is nothing of worth to be excited about at this point. Very well might never be, but too early to tell.

42 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Camelot unchained will be entering beta soon enough.  Ashes of creation has much better combat.  What those games lack?  Brutal rulesets, that USED to be what CF was going to provide over them, now CF is just softened and those games will easily outperform CF.

What was promised/planned to be brutal about CF rulesets that is no longer going to happen?

Won't bother speaking to video games being "brutal" :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Brutal rulesets, that USED to be what CF was going to provide over them, now CF is just softened

what did they change? im not following the game long enough to have witnessed massive changes in development direction, i suppose

 

if anything there was the combat "update" which made it so that you werent rooted anymore upon performing an action, which was welcome by almost everyone i know of


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I actually second @APE's request for @VIKINGNAIL to name these "Top PvP" guilds that won't come to Crowfall. Very curious. I'm not going to put in any other thoughts (on an otherwise very interesting thread), because he has a way of skipping direct questions to focus on things we aren't trying to peg him down on. I'm guessing we'll get radio silence at this point.

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3 hours ago, Frykka said:

This is more a factor of the "openness" of production...   other games have hype based on what the devs show you, here we see it every test so there is no comparison.  CF is unique in giving us far more inside knowledge that any other game pre-beta release.

I think there is ebbs and flows of hype, how many top notch players are playing Camelot Unchained at this point?   none, zero, zip...  because there is not a regular public testing environment...   YET.   We simply are not at the point where players come to PLAY the game...   if you could call it that.   Most of the game loops are missing crucial elements, so players holding off should be the norm.  AoC has all the hype right now and nothing even close to a testing environment like we have... players aren't even close to PLAYING that either.

We have major mechanics to add and test before people should even be "dying" to play because for certain, none of us PLAY Crowfall, we TEST it...   (you got your cart way in front of your horse).  If you come to Crowfall with expectations of PLAYING rather than TESTING, you are in for a fall...   soon though, always soon.

The reason is that those players are smart enough to wait until launch before having any expectation that this is about playing the game...   you, not so much.

Crowfall currently plays like an early alpha, but from what most investors are saying money isn't great and they will try to push the game out as quickly as they think they can get away with.  You can talk about the openness all you want, but the openness for this game would only be optimistic if we knew this game still had 2-3 years of development before launch.  As it is now with launch initially expected this year and probably pushed back to first half of next year, this game is way too far from being able to have a successful release and life. 

3 hours ago, PopeUrban said:


Crowfall is and has always been designed to be a game for fand of old school consequence heavy PvP games like Shadowbane, EVE, AoC, UO etc. that are typically low skill cap games in the first place because the focus of the game is strategic planning, field command, and spec group execution where the primary challenge isn't APM or mouse targeting accuracy as much as it is the ability to read and quickly and correctly respond to a highly complex battlefield scenario and work as cohesive units by issuing and following directives well.

In that space I'd say your "top notch pvpers" (as in, those who still do it regularly) Would be guys like Rooks & Kings and a couple other mid-tier nullsec and wormhole corps in EVE, the guys who can't boast the numbers to challenge the bigger blocs like TEST or Goons, but enjoy success and holdings in adjacent space through ingenuity and exploiting their smaller and more nimble organization's ability to quickly design, test, and deploy new fleet comps without being wiped off the map, and who more often than not fight outnumbered and take home clear economic victoreis.

These are people who have literally no incentive to swap to a new game because they're built entire organizations around an environment of persistance, how to exploit and thrive in that persistance, and continue to do so because they value that status. It has nothing to do with how good a game CF is. Good sandbox PvP games don't leave people much time to do more than one, and people who are winning in those environments don't usually leave them unless they're winning so hard there's nothing left for them to fight.

So, I guess I'll ask who these "top pvpers" are you're talking about.

You mean, like, esports people?

Esports people aren't exactly big in to game types with long term scoreboards, or matches that last longer than an hour. There's no ESL scoreboard, and these types of games don't generally favor their type of individual skillsets when it comes down to actual victory conditions. The "best pvpers" in sandbox pvp games are generally not the people winning the game, and the "best pvpers" are often more concerned with a fair environment to display individual or team skill than an extended length wargame where making fights unfair in your favor is the whole point of the game.

Where are the consequences in CF that are heavy?

3 hours ago, Frykka said:

Neither of these games have playable tests going yet nor do we have any real knowledge of the combat systems and balance.   I know Steven Sharif personally and played with him daily in Archeage and one thing I do know is that he is a marketing guy...  he sold you on a combat system that you haven't even touched yet and has no working tests nor shows any PvP play, he is very, very good at that.  Neither of these games have ANY actual PvP videos so how do you make any real comparisons.  We know AoC will have some tab targeting, isn't that easy mode PvP? Videos of CU aren't any more revealing...   Crowfall is the only one of these three games that shows actual players, not devs or media people, releasing videos of PvP battles.   I simply don't think that you are involved or testing the game enough to spout the drivel you do.   CF has not softened at all imho...  we will get the hardcore ruleset servers after we have faction based CWs working right.  I think you are the one with zero perspective and a lot of hot air on the forums for how much time you spend helping make this work better through the testing.

Camelot unchained has been in testing for a long time and is making very obvious pushes towards beta.  We've also seen playable pvp demos from AoC that are already superior to what CF offers.

2 hours ago, APE said:

Could you name a few "best MMO guilds?" How do you determine what makes them the best?

Nurfed, Notorious, Insomnia, IN (not the europeans that are interested in CF), CN, SoA, VD, DN, etc etc.  What makes them the best?  Their ability to consistently dominate in games and adapt to a wide variety of skill-ceilings and mechanics especially MMOs.

It currently isn't a "game." Comparing it to anything besides other projects still in the works is fairly pointless. Even elements like combat or how swinging at a tree works are still in progress and likely come off differently once all the pieces come together. No the "game" won't be amazing just because all the features are added, but games are a sum of their parts, if not, most wouldn't be going as they all have flaws.

This would have been a fine argument years ago, but CF is trying to release within a year.

Probably can count on one hand the games that have failed to survive. From UO on, most MMOs are still around. Those that aren't either aged out, lacked support, or had some glaring issues from the start that never were corrected. CF might fall into the last, but will have to see.

You're right, only 5 or less mmos have ever died.  :Rolls eyes:

I agree.

One, "top notch PVPers" don't seem interested in MMOs. At least from reading the "We are the best PVPers ever" forum where such folks say what they want.

Top notch mmorpg pvpers are good at other genres too, none of those players are really interested in CF right now.  You saw a few early on, curious when the KS was announced.  None of them care anymore.

Two, no similar game is doing any better/worse really in this. There isn't a real comparison to point to and go "see that is what should be happening here." There is nothing of worth to be excited about at this point. Very well might never be, but too early to tell.

What was promised/planned to be brutal about CF rulesets that is no longer going to happen?

Where's the FFA?  Item loot was dropped.  Banking is being softened to protect people and make it easier for them.  None of this was ever set in stone, but it was definitely softened from its initial ideas/marketing.

Won't bother speaking to video games being "brutal" :rolleyes:

 

 

 


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4 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Camelot unchained will be entering beta soon enough.  Ashes of creation has much better combat.  What those games lack?  Brutal rulesets, that USED to be what CF was going to provide over them, now CF is just softened and those games will easily outperform CF.

Having actually played Ashes at pax, I can honestly tell you that isn't the case. Both those games have interesting ideas, but combat is not one of them. Hell, CU isn't even a game, it's a tech demo for their engine.

If you're so disillusioned with CF I suggest you spare us your insufferable presence and clown over there. I'll miss you forum donkey; may your narcissism and circular logic forever reign supreme.

Edited by Helix

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Nurfed, Notorious, Insomnia, IN (not the europeans that are interested in CF), CN, SoA, VD, DN, etc etc.  What makes them the best?  Their ability to consistently dominate in games and adapt to a wide variety of skill-ceilings and mechanics especially MMOs.

So pve raid focused WoW guilds...

 

Good joke.

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1 hour ago, Helix said:

Having actually played Ashes at pax, I can honestly tell you that isn't the case. Both those games have interesting ideas, but combat is not one of them. Hell, CU isn't even a game, it's a tech demo for their engine.

If you're so disillusioned with CF I suggest you spare us your insufferable presence and clown over there. I'll miss you forum donkey; may your narcissism and circular logic forever reign supreme.

You'd have a better case if you could avoid petty insults and were actually objective about things when you talked about them.  Though I wouldn't expect you to understand WHY AoC combat is already much better than CFs. 

CU is pretty much as much a game as CF is if not more since it is already building to handle larger populations as well.  You've got quite some rose-tinted goggles there. 

I would have preferred CF stick to their initial vision more closely, that game sounded more interesting than what a game like CU is offering, but CU is somehow overtaking CF in its chance of survival.

 Say what you want about the graphics, CF is not currently closer to being complete as an MMORPG.

You're going to try and say CF runs better than AoC? 

If CF were 2-3 years out from release then it would be cool to relax, they'd have plenty of time to fill out the game and make it solid.  Now they are running out of time and not progressing fast enough.

Right now CF is not a challenging game, it isn't much of a game at all yet, how much time they have to make it a game only they know for sure, but from what I've heard from the people who are investors and get information, time and funding is a significant element they are up against now. 

From what they have now, to a released product that can actually generate healthy populations and longevity is quite a ways to go.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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59 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

CU is pretty much as much a game as CF is if not more since it is already building to handle larger populations as well.  You've got quite some rose-tinted goggles there. 

I would have preferred CF stick to their initial vision more closely, that game sounded more interesting than what a game like CU is offering, but CU is somehow overtaking CF in its chance of survival.

Say what you want about the graphics, CF is not currently closer to being complete as an MMORPG.

You're going to try and say CF runs better than AoC?

Right now CF is not a challenging game, it isn't much of a game at all yet, how much time they have to make it a game only they know for sure, but from what I've heard from the people who are investors and get information, time and funding is a significant element they are up against now. 

These are promotional videos and neither is even at a playable level equal to Hungerdome...  we lost 4 months on the race/class split, 6 probably with testing and bugs.   AoC has only a demo version with only 4 playable classes in an Unreal pre-made arena...   any Indie company could do that in a few months.   Steven spends equal effort on keeping up the hype...  Lets see where he is with an actual game in another year but it is nowhere close to what we have in CF.   CU just looks like crap graphically to me...  kinda Runescapy.   Yes CF runs way better than AoC on 5 servers worldwide and has a 24/7 world. AoC does not "RUN" at all, there is NO client or server at this time... when you start to post any actual combat videos you participate in, then you may be able to make a case.  Right now, your negative crap just stinks up our boards.

 

For CF, the main content is player made and all the players don't want to spend any more time on the outdated Archetypes because they are going away...   it IS still fun and challenging.   Once 5.3 gets the kinks out and goes to the live servers, hopefully by Turkey day, we will see all the regular players back in the same world and much higher pops to feed the hype train...   too much hype too early just brings more whiners to our boards.

 

 

Edited by Frykka

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2 hours ago, Frykka said:

These are promotional videos and neither is even at a playable level equal to Hungerdome...  we lost 4 months on the race/class split, 6 probably with testing and bugs.   AoC has only a demo version with only 4 playable classes in an Unreal pre-made arena...   any Indie company could do that in a few months.   Steven spends equal effort on keeping up the hype...  Lets see where he is with an actual game in another year but it is nowhere close to what we have in CF.   CU just looks like crap graphically to me...  kinda Runescapy.   Yes CF runs way better than AoC on 5 servers worldwide and has a 24/7 world. AoC does not "RUN" at all, there is NO client or server at this time... when you start to post any actual combat videos you participate in, then you may be able to make a case.  Right now, your negative crap just stinks up our boards.

 

For CF, the main content is player made and all the players don't want to spend any more time on the outdated Archetypes because they are going away...   it IS still fun and challenging.   Once 5.3 gets the kinks out and goes to the live servers, hopefully by Turkey day, we will see all the regular players back in the same world and much higher pops to feed the hype train...   too much hype too early just brings more whiners to our boards.

 

 

This is simply more rose-tinted goggles.  Those are videos of people actually in game playing what they have to offer.  Which seems to be as much if not more than what CF has so far.

AoC shows people playable PvE experiences and PvP arenas.  Stop trying to downplay their progress and exaggerate what CF has done. 

CF doesn't run "way better" than anything.  A lot of builds don't really run at all.  And the ones that do work have yet to be optimized to any level to run "way better" than anything.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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18 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

This is simply more rose-tinted goggles.  Those are videos of people actually in game playing what they have to offer.  Which seems to be as much if not more than what CF has so far.

AoC shows people playable PvE experiences and PvP arenas.  Stop trying to downplay their progress and exaggerate what CF has done. 

CF doesn't run "way better" than anything.  A lot of builds don't really run at all.  And the ones that do work have yet to be optimized to any level to run "way better" than anything.

LOL...   I know the product I am promoting very well and we have had, in fact 5.2.10 is, smooth running even if not optimized.   You don't play, how would you know.   You are the one trumping up AoC way beyond what they have...  I support Stevens project but I know that what you taut as playable experiences come right out of the Unreal engine developers box, promo stuff...  so they made some character models and some powers that flash...  we have dozens of playable race/class/disc combos, they have 4 and no balance at all where we have had several balance passes.   We have 2 passes on harvesting and crafting and one pass on sieging, what does AoC have in these areas? Concept art...   yea.   Hardly even equitable to where we are now, not even to Hungerdome, let alone Bloodbath.   Sorry kid, but your b.s is showing right through your thin skin.

 

Edited by Frykka

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Sorry guys, another thread derailed by negativity...   I am done.   Now VN can get in his "last word" as he must always do to be so leet of a non-player.  He will spin, distract, evade, use circular logic in his effort to win at forum posting like these are the powers on his forum posting melee tray.   gf, well played and whatever...   

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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24 minutes ago, Frykka said:

LOL...   I know the product I am promoting very well and we have had, in fact 5.2.10 is, smooth running even if not optimized.   You don't play, how would you know.   You are the one trumping up AoC way beyond what they have...  I support Stevens project but I know that what you taut as playable experiences come right out of the Unreal engine developers box, promo stuff...  so they made some character models and some powers that flash...  we have dozens of playable race/class/disc combos, they have 4 and no balance at all where we have had several balance passes.   We have 2 passes on harvesting and crafting and one pass on sieging, what does AoC have in these areas? Concept art...   yea.   Hardly even equitable to where we are now, not even to Hungerdome, let alone Bloodbath.   Sorry kid, but your b.s is showing right through your thin skin.

 

I'm not trumping up any games, I am objectively looking at what CF's original vision was, and what it is now, and the issues it will have with succeeding, and comparing it to other games that have a better chance of succeeding. 

Calling it Steven's project isn't going to do anything here, it isn't going to make anyone think you have some sort of intimate relationship with the project. 

I think you are exaggerating what CF has, and especially exaggerating any of that being anywhere close to release ready. 

Also petty insults aren't going to get you anywhere, and it's hypocritical to say someone has thin skin when you are the one getting triggered.

Has CF produced any gameplay videos that have been able to get lots of people hyped for the game?  No.... If this type of stuff was so easy to create, they would have done so. 

Other games are able to create content, show it, and generate lots of interest.  Right now CF is generating very little interest, and any videos it can produce of gameplay generally get criticized to death because they actually hurt the game marketing wise more than they help. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Read the majority of the thread. Gotta say, its pretty amusing.

So far from what it looks like this is a thread where one person is basically comparing very different MMO games to CF and then complaining about the progress done on CF.

How many MMOs out there actually have strategic open world pvp? EVE Online. Anything else? Let's not even bring up MMOs where the pvp is instanced. They aren't even close to the same thing as open world.


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1 hour ago, entityofsin said:

Read the majority of the thread. Gotta say, its pretty amusing.

So far from what it looks like this is a thread where one person is basically comparing very different MMO games to CF and then complaining about the progress done on CF.

How many MMOs out there actually have strategic open world pvp? EVE Online. Anything else? Let's not even bring up MMOs where the pvp is instanced. They aren't even close to the same thing as open world.

First off, you can't really call CF an MMO yet because it has not proven the ability to field large populations in a server.  Second off, the worlds in CF are not large enough yet to say CF has "open world pvp".  Third off, umm CU is going to have strategic open world pvp?  Not only that CU is built for big mmo populations from the ground up, whereas CF was an experiment with an engine that people were skeptical of for MMORPGs.  It has struggled to handle large amounts of players with stability.

Right now PUBG is more of an open world pvp mmo than CF is.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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