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Founders' Update: Target Dates & Victory Conditions - Official Discussion Thread


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I was hoping this was related too Campaign win conditions and how artificial end dates don’t work ( since if you know the date it ends only the work in the last few hours effects the tug of war win condition.

 

With any business other than retail the holiday season isn’t very productive with employee time off etc It was pretty obvious that either soft launch wasn’t happening this year or ACE was going to just call Beta soft launch of an unfinished game.

 

Im glad they chose postponing but the bigger problem we have now is keeping people interested long term.

so many guild mates of mine have lost interest because of the delays. I hope we get a playable campaign with real win conditions to get people active again!

I even miss hunger dome!

Edited by PaleOne

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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I'm glad you guys finally got around to making this post. It was becoming pretty clear that the Race/Class split decision would force this game back into 2018. No ones faulting you on this. It makes the game more interesting in almost every conceivable way. 

This type of dialog with the player base is whats been missing from you guys lately. I get the feeling you received some backlash this year in a couple areas (the Tomes incident), and it made you gunshy about talking straight with us. You should never try to hide bad news from us, just like you never hesitate to share good news with us. When a developer uses the term "Transparency" to describe themselves or their development process, I tend to hold them to a higher standard. It feels to me lately you've shied away from embracing that concept.

The only thing you could possibly do to truly anger your backers at this point is to fail to deliver Crowfall's Vision to us at some unspecified point in the future. The rest is the noise that most of us recognize as a swarm of entitled gamers who feel pre-purchasing something entitles them to something. That white noise will always be present in any gaming community. You can't avoid it. Much like you can't avoid "Pay to Win" criticisms.

Keep on making Crowfall in the Vision you sold us on 3 years ago. The real community will have your backs. 

Edited by Scree
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Despite this post holding negative information, it is one of your best. This is what we wanted and we appreciate you addressing it. We all knew that dates were slipping and there was no mystery there. The mystery was, would you attempt to push out your product way too early or would you hold your project till it is in a more complete state.

I think most of us here prefer the latter. We know Crowfall will fail if released early and we were hoping you were on the same page. Looks like you are and thanks again for the update.

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1 hour ago, XseroMateria said:

In my opinion take as long as you want. Like waiting for christmas at this point the wait is fine. All I care about is the present.:wub:

I get your intention but no... do not let this be an endless feature creep with each version having new and exciting but not not correctly working stuff. 

In all honesty I guess everyone saw this one coming. I mean there will be harsh comments about this one on the internet but well... it benefits the game in the long run so yeah. And while we are at it - I guess it would make sense to push the release to late 2018 to promote the game on the gaming conventions earlier in 2018. For EU GC in August for example. Would make sense but on the other hand it's a soft-launch so not sure how to handle this. 

And while I appreciate a decision like the race and class split early on (after release it would be a hell lot of work to get it done I guess - not to talk about version issues, skill tree issues, etc.) I highly hope that there aren't any major deviations on the path (as if one could foresee it) because as said - I don't really want the game to suffer from feature creep (or maybe this isn't really the right word). That being said if the game greatly benefits from it and the race class split really made the game more appealing I guess it would be fine to make alterations to crafting, exploring, etc. 

I mean the progress is there but I just hope this is the last thread about this topic ^^. Well keep it up.

You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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I don't mind the delay at all; the game is fun and playable even in it's current state. I would just really like it to be opened up to at least all of alpha group so that the rest of our guild can play. 

The only other major thing that's missing are win conditions, which give people a reason to fight and play. We could even do these as a community if the 'balance' slider was functional, but as it is, it's not simple to take a snapshot of who controls what at a given time to evaluate win conditions. 

Edited by Orleans

Free Ginko.

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People bought in for a reason, or at least the ones that chose to be informed. This wasn't really news to those that followed the project. There was no way this was going soft launch, given missing pieces. Sooo... I expected it.... however..

I wish you could do something to encourage participation. When you announce limited testing, it kills participation. No one logs into production now because it will be wiped. The rules have changed so why play the old meta? You will lose all training, armor and resources, so why play? Also, the map, most do not like. Sooo..... suggestions?

Go back to Scorn with "Tyranny Elements". Have the ability to hit R3 nodes in outlying areas. Create Forts with R5 nodes around it, let's say two or three forts with Trees, Ores, stone.... the works.  Create one central keep to fight over with R9 nodes. Make it a 6 hour timer minimum to re-siege. Though if you are leaving it up I would go for 12 to 24. Give people something to fight for and maintain that matters. 

As far as participation, production and limited testing goes, Tie Spirit banks to the EK to be permanent. At this point, It has no real meaning, as far as balance or advantage, but let people keep their investment. If people knew they could still log in, fight over resources on the production servers and import them once the test iteration goes live, I'm sure there would be a lot more people out there participating... it would not be wasted time. It would give people a vested interest to compete at that gate/level. They would be active and interested. Just my opinion.

 

 

.

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It's not a surprise. The surprise (for me) was that it took so long to be spoken out. And even then very vaguely. I mean, for everyone who watches the progress, it's absolutely clear that the game won't make soft launch this year (i mean ... come on...). In my eyes, ACE was especially famous for talking very very frank and in a very timely manner to it's audience. The thing i maybe question myself most (or something like that) is if a) the experience was this bad or b ) the times changed so much? That would be interesting to know. 

But frankly, i would prefer a clear: "Guy's 'n gal's, we are sorry, but it simply turned out that it takes much longer. Much much longer. We didn't speak about it yet, because we thought it would happen faster and because things are complicated. However, we don't want to let you hang in the air. So, here it is: The next steps are to develop this and that and those things. The latest experiences shows that this takes this and that time for each step. And if it goes on on this way, it would mean that commercial launch might happen about end of 2018. Not talking about soft launch, because we simply cant say yet. But it will be between commercial launch and now. We are really sorry for this delay, but you know the reasons and currently there is no way to not disappoint our oldest backers. But if it comes to disappointment because being delayed or disappointment because of not delivering the best we could ... we choose the first one. We'll try to do our very best to keep the balance between those two extremes though, because we really don't want to disappoint those who made all of this possible at the beginning ... and we also know that we will still develop and offer a lot of extensions once the game initially launched."

Sure, some points of it are part of this news. But not all. And frankly, it feels like some things are missing. And if only the trust you (ACE) have in your followers. I am wondering why this is the case ... or why it feels so (at least for me), if it isnt the case. 

Just saying.

 

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7 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

It's not a surprise. The surprise (for me) was that it took so long to be spoken out. And even then very vaguely. I mean, for everyone who watches the progress, it's absolutely clear that the game won't make soft launch this year (i mean ... come on...). In my eyes, ACE was especially famous for talking very very frank and in a very timely manner to it's audience. The thing i maybe question myself most (or something like that) is if a) the experience was this bad or b ) the times changed so much? That would be interesting to know. 

But frankly, i would prefer a clear: "Guy's 'n gal's, we are sorry, but it simply turned out that it takes much longer. Much much longer. We didn't speak about it yet, because we thought it would happen faster and because things are complicated. However, we don't want to let you hang in the air. So, here it is: The next steps are to develop this and that and those things. The latest experiences shows that this takes this and that time for each step. And if it goes on on this way, it would mean that commercial launch might happen about end of 2018. Not talking about soft launch, because we simply cant say yet. But it will be between commercial launch and now. We are really sorry for this delay, but you know the reasons and currently there is no way to not disappoint our oldest backers. But if it comes to disappointment because being delayed or disappointment because of not delivering the best we could ... we choose the first one. We'll try to do our very best to keep the balance between those two extremes though, because we really don't want to disappoint those who made all of this possible at the beginning ... and we also know that we will still develop and offer a lot of extensions once the game initially launched."

Sure, some points of it are part of this news. But not all. And frankly, it feels like some things are missing. And if only the trust you (ACE) have in your followers. I am wondering why this is the case ... or why it feels so (at least for me), if it isnt the case. 

Just saying.

 

I think the transparency concept is noble in concept but basically ever since the KS was announced everytime ACE announces something, many people misunderstand it and then spread misinformation and then get upset because of the expectations for the game that they created through their own misunderstandings.  

I'd rather ACE stay away from any estimated timelines in the future and only talk about things like launch dates once they are set in stone.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Very happy to see this post. 

Now you have time again. Funny how that feels hunh? You can go back and revisit some things. You can let things cook a bit more. You can reassess and tighten up some plans that were pushed aside. 

Please watch out for feature creep though. Release still needs to happen in a timely manner. The game needs to be born to truly grow. 

But thank you for coming out and informing all of us jaded bitter gamers. It is good to see yall still have the ability to see past what hopes and dreams do in reality. 

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10 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I think the transparency concept is noble in concept but basically ever since the KS was announced everytime ACE announces something, many people misunderstand it and then spread misinformation and then get upset because of the expectations for the game that they created through their own misunderstandings.  

I'd rather ACE stay away from any estimated timelines in the future and only talk about things like launch dates once they are set in stone.

I understand that. Thats why i am curious and thats why i am asking.

There are generally two basic ways to cope with these kind of things. And, by the way, the transitions are fluid. But basically, you can either be afraid, holding back and choose the safe way. Or you can believe in what you do, lead the way and try to inspire others to follow you.

I didn't say that these kind of decisions are easy. I  didn't say that this or that way is right. I simply offered an feedback - only and alone based on my personal sight of view ... not speaking for others. And in the end, no answer will really matter, the deeds will do. But i am convinced that not giving feedback would be the worst thing one could do. So i do it. Wether it is a convinient feedback or not. 

Besides, i am clearly biased regarding this topic, because i am working in the construction sector. Imagine you order a house, you already quit your old apartment and ... they just dont tell you it will take a year longer! Just impossible. But sure, thats a poor comparison. Anyways, communication is important. If you can't do it in a given time - say so. If you can't promise a specific completion date - say so. It always better than just saying nothing. And this nothing went on too long now. But finally it has been spoken out and that is good. A clearer estimation would be better though. And frankly, personally i would even prefer a "release midth 2019" (and standing to it) over a "yeah, 2018, maybe, as early as possible? we dont know yet". Because, sure, waiting holds up the tension. But keeping people tensed ... thats not really fair. Being honest and standing to ones word is often much more appreciated. At least in my working field. But thats not game development. So it may mean nothing. But it may mean something. Just saying.

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12 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

I understand that. Thats why i am curious and thats why i am asking.

There are generally two basic ways to cope with these kind of things. And, by the way, the transitions are fluid. But basically, you can either be afraid, holding back and choose the safe way. Or you can believe in what you do, lead the way and try to inspire others to follow you.

I didn't say that these kind of decisions are easy. I  didn't say that this or that way is right. I simply offered an feedback - only and alone based on my personal sight of view ... not speaking for others. And in the end, no answer will really matter, the deeds will do. But i am convinced that not giving feedback would be the worst thing one could do. So i do it. Wether it is a convinient feedback or not. 

Besides, i am clearly biased regarding this topic, because i am working in the construction sector. Imagine you order a house, you already quit your old apartment and ... they just dont tell you it will take a year longer! Just impossible. But sure, thats a poor comparison. Anyways, communication is important. If you can't do it in a given time - say so. If you can't promise a specific completion date - say so. It always better than just saying nothing. And this nothing went on too long now. But finally it has been spoken out and that is good. A clearer estimation would be better though. And frankly, personally i would even prefer a "release midth 2019" (and standing to it) over a "yeah, 2018, maybe, as early as possible? we dont know yet". Because, sure, waiting holds up the tension. But keeping people tensed ... thats not really fair. Being honest and standing to ones word is often much more appreciated. At least in my working field. But thats not game development. So it may mean nothing. But it may mean something. Just saying.

I'd rather they have not said 2018 at all.  They should have just said we won't make the target date this year and we will release the game when it is ready.  Then again maybe they will be forced to release in 2018 because who knows how much money they have left for development of the game.

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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