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ACE_JackalBark

Crafting Stations and Recipes - Official Discussion Thread

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Intermediate recipes are a new type of recipe. While they appear for all players (of any skill level), they can only be accessed when the player uses a crafting station of the correct type.

Yeah, I'm with Anhrez here, I don't like this one bit. This makes the need for dedicated crafters less. And this comes on top of the change to the skill system changes where you can dip into crafting and combat as VIP. Real dedicated crafters are not that important to ACE it seems. Very disappointing.

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Every Beachhead will have a limited number and selection of crafting stations, but only intermediate weapon and armor recipes will be available through these.

You already know my stance on beachheads/safezones (for those who don't know, I ****ing hate them) and now you're giving players even less incentives to head out of these?! Very disappointing once again.

I like the new UI though (maybe a bit less whitespace so the window is smaller?), but the crafting stations are needed in the game for a long time now.


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ETERNAL KINGDOMS

Deeds have been added for all the stations, and attachment nodes have been added inside the Pavillion Tent, Cottage, Villa and Manor buildings to allow players to place these stations. Recipes for all of these buildings are now available, so you can start crafting in the privacy of your Eternal Kingdom once you get the resources you need to do so.

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With the current test server we do not get to import our bundle packages (Parcels and Buildings).  Does this mean we will need to craft parcels and buildings to be able to craft in our EK's on the 5.3 test server once this update goes live? Or will we be given test parcels/buildings on the 5.3 test server to allow us to place these assets to allow us to build a crafting station and actually craft in our EK?


   Official Moderator of the Unofficial Crowfall Discord!  Come join the discussion @ https://discord.me/crowfall

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34 minutes ago, Anhrez said:
  • No info on salvage, maybe this is a reference but some clarity would help  " Oh, and we’re also going to fix the experiment and crafting failure loop to be not so damned painful."
  • no info on repairing - is this at the advanced or intermediate table? as if intermediate then maybe untrained ppl can repair? that would be a kick to the nuts 

I don't expect the features Salvage and Repair to be implemented at this point.


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16 minutes ago, Caenth said:

I don't expect the features Salvage and Repair to be implemented at this point.

I get that feeling too ... but that is shame as its implementation could be an easy and useful tool to lessen the jarring FAILURE outcomes. Maybe instead of a fail its crafting the item you thought with only 1/2 the durability it should have got? or a Jumbled mess that its only value is to deconstruct with salvage to get 50% of the original raw mats? 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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In the CF Discord @coolster50 and I are chatting about the changes the UI could tell about the recipes and combination in the future. 

Instead of 3 wood of same type creates a Plank (thus limiting the raw mats and combos used) .... we see something different 

Tirv4Vq.png

  1. More Wood is needed for planks .... this makes me happy and sad. Of all the changes I've thought about in CF Crafting, needing more mats to get to a building block piece (component) is not one of them
  2. With 3 inputs Laminate/Wood Alloys could be a thing. Right now there are only 5 stat outputs for a plank (and a few are meh in their value adds). This pales in comparison to Leather and ore and could allow better fine tuning of crafting options
Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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22 minutes ago, Caenth said:

Yeah, I'm with Anhrez here, I don't like this one bit. This makes the need for dedicated crafters less. And this comes on top of the change to the skill system changes where you can dip into crafting and combat as VIP. Real dedicated crafters are not that important to ACE it seems. Very disappointing.

We will get into the nitty gritty soon, but I wouldn't read too much into the terminology. INTERMEDIATE recipes are only slightly better than basic ones, where ADVANCED ones are much much better. The balance to strike is to give every player some general crafting capabilities so they have options for tools, armor and weapons, while also giving them reasons to craft better gear or find someone who can. If a non-crafter walks up to a station and can't do anything because all recipes are advanced, then we are not giving them enough of a taste to want to come back, or try the crafting track. 

For dedicated crafters, the advanced crafting game will continue to be deep and necessary. The best weapons, gear, tools, potions, etc will only come from the best crafters, giving these folks a lot of power. 


Billy Garretsen - UX Design Lead, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc. 

[Personal Portfolio]

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The new crafting menu looks fantastic. I absolutely HATED having to scroll through menus looking for sub-components. 

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Will there be a change to success rate, if all sub-components can be added so only 1 roll on an item is necessary?

I like seeing crafting stations in, but I don't like allowing players to create too many things out in the "wild".  Just because it's a game doesn't mean there can't be some type of logic behind the game.  Crafting a crude wooden sword could be a "wild" type craft, but anything metal really needs forging equipment, i.e. a crafting station.  Personally I was hoping all crafting would be at stations on launch.

@perfectdork Special recipes would be a very nice addition; something that is unique and only a handful of players will ever get that specific recipe.  Something like a normal sword with damage +10%; no matter how horrible of rolls you get in experimentation you will always get 10% more damage from that recipe.  This creates specialized crafters and brings more meat to supply and demand.  If you took the route of EvE, where it was an original blueprint, then the owning player could sell off 1 to 10 run copies of the original.  In this way the economy isn't stifled, yet certain crafters are unique for certain wares.


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I would agree with Anhrez and Caenth BUT if Intermediate Recipes are some truly new and in between Basic and Advanced in terms of cost and potential I can see some it working out.

 

Also, based on the flowchart station interface teaser I am REALLY hoping that using a station removes FAILURES or at least only has 1 FAIL roll? Any chance this could be confirmed/denied?

Edited by Scorn

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While I'm impressed with the UX of the new crafting system prototype, it doesn't seem that the actual crafting system is changing. If anything it's becoming more cumbersome (addition of needing to be in a specific place). Add in all the new menus, factories, and what not, and you've got an incredibly complicated crafting system which takes far too long to craft a single item.

My only hope is that you can simply plug in materials into every one of those project view slots, and click craft to have it automatically make each component in the chart for you at once. If this doesn't work like this, it solves visualizing what it takes to craft which is awesome. I had to make my own flowcharts for people to truly understand what goes into this process. None of this simplifies it though.

I'm actually more concerned at this point of how complicated Blueprinting will be. Some things that were said before make me question the sanity of attempting to mass produce anything. Guess I'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.

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I'm certainly pleased with the direction that crafting is heading. I love the introduction of crafting stations and the requiring of holding/building forts and keeps to facilitate crafting. This truly makes crafting a part of the game loop and will help elevate it from merely a necessary evil. With that said, here are my questions:

  1. "[W]e’re also going to fix the experiment and crafting failure loop to be not so damned painful."
    1. Currently training all three of the Basic Experimentation Points nodes allegedly enables you to receive 4 experimentation points (2/1/1) that would apply to all advanced lines (Blacksmithing, Woodcraft, etc.). That is not currently the case. Fully training those 3 nodes only gains you .8 pips in the advanced lines. Is that by design? Is that a bug? Is that something you plan on correcting/fixing/redesigning? 
    2. Ultimately i don't think that training is able to provide enough experimentation points given the number of lines which can be experimented on. A fully trained Blacksmith, with a Leader-Crafter and no potions can get to 15 pips...but when we are making purple weapons, and can invest 9 pips into damage, durability, sheen and grade...that is often only 1/4th of the available experimentation. While having to make decisions/priorities should be a part of this...the best crafters in the game should be able to fully experiment in more than just ONE of the available lines.  Thats a long winded way of saying we want more pips. Any plan to revamp things to facilitate this to make this "not so damned painful"?
  2. "In addition, we’ve got other Crafting-related systems in the pipe, too, like player-owned vendors and gold..."
    1. I presume this means Thralls and Currency. I'm sure your players would love to know more about both subjects. The implementation of currency can be a particularly thorny issue. Whether we can mint our own currency from ore...whether we can smelt coins back into bars...whether you set exchange rates or whether that is completely player driven...are all interesting concepts. Anything you could share in this regard would be greatly appreciated.
  3. "Part of this update means adding these new crafting stations to specific strategic locations in the map."
    1. Will you have limits on how many stations can be built in a particular fort or keep? Will keeps necessarily hold more stations? Will station building function like the current hippo building? (i.e. require timber/ingots/boulders from POIs) Or will crafting stations themselves be created by crafters? (stonemasons perhaps?) Will stations be destroyed upon losing control of a fort and have to be rebuilt by the capturing faction? Will what type of station is in the fort be predetermined by you or will the players be able to select what kind of station is going to be built inside a given fort or keep?
  4. "Recipes for all of these buildings are now available, so you can start crafting in the privacy of your Eternal Kingdom once you get the resources you need to do so."
    1. That sounds like we're getting these immediately. Are stations really already ready for us to test?
  5. "As a teaser, here’s a quick shot of a new crafting project UI to show you where we're headed."
    1. This layout and your overall crafting design makes perfect sense for blacksmithing and leather working and necromancy. What I don't understand is stonemasonry. Will we be building keeps with harvested green stone and experimenting on the hps/durability of individual bricks? walls? ramparts? The skill system for each of the crafting lines is a mirror of the others...but for stonemasonry, it seems out of place. Can you explain your vision for stonemasonry?
Edited by Gradishar

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3 hours ago, perfectdork said:
3 hours ago, perfectdork said:

We will get into the nitty gritty soon, but I wouldn't read too much into the terminology. INTERMEDIATE recipes are only slightly better than basic ones, where ADVANCED ones are much much better. The balance to strike is to give every player some general crafting capabilities so they have options for tools, armor and weapons, while also giving them reasons to craft better gear or find someone who can. If a non-crafter walks up to a station and can't do anything because all recipes are advanced, then we are not giving them enough of a taste to want to come back, or try the crafting track. 

For dedicated crafters, the advanced crafting game will continue to be deep and necessary. The best weapons, gear, tools, potions, etc will only come from the best crafters, giving these folks a lot of power. 

 

Don't suppose before the next 'reveal' on crafting someone there can craft up a basic, and intermediate and then a reasonable advanced of the same item? Would love to see them next to each other to better understand benefits, time to gather mats for, durability, etc 

 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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@Anhrez from the sounds of the post intermediate items will have the bases of base stats with no experimentation allotted to them. That's a huge difference between that and even a green with decent rolls. I wouldn't be too worried yet.

As far as the new UI goes. GOD BLESS YOU! Hunting for components was one of the most painful things about the game. I'm delighted at the change and it's better than I thought the improvement would be. I have one minor QOL suggestion that would be to show the stats of each material/component when you add it to the tree to give a visual breakdown of what's going into the end product. Something displayed on the tree to take away from hovering over each metal bar(etc) to see what its stats are. Not necessary but would be a great nice to have.

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10 minutes ago, Zachdidit said:

@Anhrez from the sounds of the post intermediate items will have the bases of base stats with no experimentation allotted to them. That's a huge difference between that and even a green with decent rolls. I wouldn't be too worried yet.

 

I am hopeful that this is the case .... but as we have seen so far the values of crafted items vary a lot. Right now with 4 pips I can push garbage in the way of support power so does a healer need me to build them an 'advanced staff' with all the extra needed effort and mats or can they just get buy with an intermediate till passive training takes me farther?

If a non-crafter can make something ok out of White Premium mats (sure without all the options of a crafter) , and I as a crafter starting out only have 4 pips and some huge chances of failure what do I bring to the table for the start of the campaign? 

Until we see some real examples, and understand the 'crafting effort/time spent/ impact of crafting experimentation' I still think it could impact the curve of my relevance?  I guess that is my real concern.


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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I hope basic versions of discipline granted weapons make it in.

 

i would hate to spend months playing a rapier Duelist waiting for someone to get the ability to make an advanced main hand pistol.


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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