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ACE_JackalBark

Divine Sacrifice - Official Discussion Thread

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I like the idea, but it will depend on the implementation. 

The main sticking point is of course. how much will it get used since you shouldn't go out alone and player arms race will keep spooling up.

Also without VIP and the multiple facet training people are really going 1 way. so many vessels will not be that useful. 1-3 maybe. It wil offer some incentive but again. Don't go out alone. 

 

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This is a very good idea and addresses something I thought was a weakness. This means if nobody is on I can go farm things to help. I hope currency for upgrades keep is still on the table, too. Also a huge item sink for the economy, which is interesting.

I love the tie-in to God choice. Can we sacrifice at a “guild” brazier and leave sacrificial points there for others to use? Or if we sacrifice are we the vessel that acquires the points? If so, expect a ton of unnecessary and tedious trading at the brazier.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Conceptually, I like this new system. The idea of "levels" is certainly going to change folks' attitudes I think. However, if it were me, I'd link advanced powers (active and even passive) to this Sacrifice/Leveling system. "Fireball2" being granted at level 5 for the Confessor (having +5 ranged and slightly better mana efficiency) and "Holy Symbol2" being granted at level 5 for the Cleric (increasing the duration of the AoE by 30%) and "Barbaric Yalp" being granted at level 10 for the Champion (granting an PBAoE suppress...cannot be slotted if Stomp is also slotted)....etc etc etc.....

To me...the moment-to-moment element is only worthwhile if it feels like advancement. A 10% attribute gain, while nice, still doesn't feel like advancement. A day 1 confessor and a day 365 confessor still has EXACTLY the same power load out options. Leveling and advancement could solve this problem...and would be a great opportunity to do so IMHO.

Edited by Gradishar

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I see a lot of potential in this system.

I hope there are meaningful choices around which brazier you use. Different gods could give different favors. Perhaps we build different kinds of braziers to get different results. Something a little more interesting than "dump stuff, get 10% more stats."


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I like the idea of the system. I think having something that encourages and rewards people for interacting with the world is a good thing.

In theory, what I dont like is that it currently creates more of a power gap between new players vs old temporarily with what theyve said.

It ends up being one more thing a player has to do to get into the endgame combat.

Interested to see how it goes.

 

Edited by MetalGERE

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39 minutes ago, Toadwart said:

So, you cant go out into the campaign world solo, because your friends arent on and going out solo would be suicide, but this system would have you go out into the world solo to gather sacrifice items to pass the time until your friends log on.

Am I misunderstanding how this works?

How does that remotely solve the problem of having nothing to do when your friends arent online if going out solo is a suicide mission?

Anyway, appreciate the thought process, but it seems boring. Really boring. After "one weekend" of effort your gonna soft cap on this minimal increase then this system will keep someone wanting to log in for 0.001% increase thereafter doing boring fed ex task. I cant see it.

What makes you think that going out solo will be suicidal? It's really not. The risk isn't that great, there's just not much point to it, since the rewards are lacking. Risk vs. reward balance is off, sacrifice hopefully will help with the reward part.

Also note that the level gains will apply to specific vessels, which means that the "one weekend" to hit the cap is just for a single vessel. You'll want to do more leveling if you want to try a vessel with a different race/class/discipline combo, or if you get a higher quality vessel crafted, or if you want to just experiment with a different stat distribution.

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Having alot of time online will already mean being able to equip yourself,friends and guild.  Equipment in itself will be a large boost depending on how good quality you’re able to get.

 

Now they will be further “rewarded” by having boosted vessels?

 

This system is completely unneeded...

 

but will encourage full loot.  Sigh.


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Sounds good. The game would really benefit of a lvling system (the passive skill training just doesnt cut it).

I have some issued with it though:

Lvling only for stats:

I will honestly say i never really bothered about stats when talking about lvling. It was always about unlocking more cool and powerful stuff. So while i will definitely Max all my characters it isnt like i will really look forward for that +1 DEX. Perhaps you guys could really consider giving us some powers.

Why not make this the promotion system that never was? I admit that i will never get over promotions being axed. And while this would require some work to you guys it is IMO worth considering.

2 Days to Max cap:

I will directly say that sound too fast to me. Now, i dont want another system that takes years to master but 2 days is almost like saying you can do it in one gaming session. I never played SB so i havent really saw this at work but, again, it sounds too fast.

Of course this depends on how often we swap vessels and how often we have to re-lvl but i expect this to not happen often. I would hate to go trough all the trouble of getting that perfect vessel, equip all discs and train it to the max only for it to go poof in less than a week.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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19 minutes ago, Jah said:

I see a lot of potential in this system.

I hope there are meaningful choices around which brazier you use. Different gods could give different favors. Perhaps we build different kinds of braziers to get different results. Something a little more interesting than "dump stuff, get 10% more stats."

This should be explored IMO. Small enhancements to the fort/keep/city and upkeep related things. Maybe the Tree of Life requires some sacrifices to a God to stay at peak HP. Just spitballin’


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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1 minute ago, Avloren said:

What makes you think that going out solo will be suicidal? It's really not. The risk isn't that great, there's just not much point to it, since the rewards are lacking. Risk vs. reward balance is off, sacrifice hopefully will help with the reward part.

Also note that the level gains will apply to specific vessels, which means that the "one weekend" to hit the cap is just for a single vessel. You'll want to do more leveling if you want to try a vessel with a different race/class/discipline combo, or if you get a higher quality vessel crafted, or if you want to just experiment with a different stat distribution.

What makes me think its suicidal is Ive played PvP games since Ultima Online.

You can sneak around now, because no one plays this game. Sure, when 9 people are logged on to the server you can get around a bit, how about when 1000 people are online?

Also, doing Fed Ex tasks of bringing parcel A to Destination B is about as boring and mind numbing as it gets. 

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I like the general concept, and especially like that ACE is exploring and improving game system in this way, however I think some details need to be changed for it to truly function well:

 

-Crafted items should return more than the sum total of that it's required resources, much the way higher quality items will be better than lower quality ones. This would give the non-PvPing crafters something of a bonus to offset their losing out on some of the possible items.

 

-The attribute modifiers should be filling out a range of potential, not an over-the-top add-on. For example, say a crafted vessel has a max possible cap for attributes, based on the best possible materials and experimentation rolls. Lets say it's 500 per attribute. This max would be very very difficult, but not impossible, to ever reach when crafting a vessel. Most Vessels would therefore be at say 400/500 in their attribute potential, and of course that would vary across attributes based on what the crafter was favoring when making it.

The Sacrifice system would then  A ) not be doing something that could not be possible via other means, for those who didn't want to do it or who could not do it and  B ) would provide a way for non-crafters to 'finish off' or improve a Vessel, doing something they could otherwise not do and acquiring something they could not otherwise get their hands on. The Sacrifice process would only grant a maximum additional attribute points - say 100 - so if your Vessel was at 200 of 500 in Strength, you could improve it, but only to 300 or 500, which would mean the market for skill crafters would remain intact and healthy.

It would also give players a way to customize their Vessels even beyond what was done in the crafting process, more towards what their eventual actual usage of it turns out to be. Also, who wouldn't want to 'improve the not great Vessel with it's sub-par attribute values' they were stuck using?

 

-Lastly, I agree with Grad and others that additional attribute points would not be enough, especially given how little they impact stats. An additional power that could be leveled up would be ideal. However, to keep such a thing somewhat narrow and easier to code I would limit it to specific types of powers - a new C Power, a new Retaliate or a new Dodge. You could do all kinds of things with such powers, add combo stages for higher level ones, customize or flavor them to suit specific gods - so one you got from sacrificing to Malekai would be different from one you got from Gaea. This would be more of a satisfying goal than just attributes I think.

Edited by Anthrage

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Quote

The more a server is humming with people/activity, the more likely new entrants are to stick around.

True, but the cause of inactive servers (currently) is because there is nothing to achieve in the campaign. There are no win conditions, nothing to aim at. Fix this and you'll see a lot more activity. There needs to be a goal if you want players playtesting your game. The current tests are not the proper source to come up with a system that is designed to fix the game. How do you even know the game is broken?

Quote

The biggest is that this advancement is typically contingent on grinding monsters, which is something we want to avoid.

Yeah, and now you have replaced it with grinding resources. Harvesting is not that exciting, I rather kill a challenging monster. But for that you need great AI. Like the BAM's in TERA were. You don't have the resources to implement AI like this? With that 6 million you could hire an AI guy too. I rather see the money spend on something like development than marketing.

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The answer we came up with is the Sacrifice System, a secondary advancement system for vessels ...

Quote

Due to the quantity and quality of resources, Dregs players will level much faster…

No, they don't. Players don't level. Vessels do. In Crowfall this is a BIG difference. And when you loose your vessel, due to damage or death, you have to grind again for your next vessel. Feels like a proper time-sink for sure. Not seeing how this fits with your passive skill training that wants to avoid just this?

Quote

... to speed the characters through this progression (i.e. you can max a new build in a weekend), to keep the power curve very shallow (meaning that the power differential between min and max level is very shallow, i.e. < 10%)

What is the point of this then? If it is this quick there is no challenge, no satisfaction of completing something substantial. Especially combined that it is on your vessel. A short, repeating time sink that is unrewarding? Doesn't sound like fun to me at all.

The only silver lining is that collecting high quality gear is worthwhile, and thus creating more PvP. This won;t protect the solo player much though. Gank squads here we come, or run with a proper group of friends, being in a guild or not. This system will only bolster the already strong players and weaken the less fortunate even more. If the weak get slaughtered even more, they will log off even faster.

Maybe they should stick to be play in the safezones to feel safe and enjoy the game? /sarcasm

Sorry, but I don't see how this system fixes anything. It feels like a replacement for the Salvage and Repair systems that have been put quietly on the sideline or are even out of the picture. I rather have these two systems than this Sacrifice system that tries to fix a problem that doesn't (yet) exists.


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Attributes are not exciting (or always impactful or relevant eg harvesters and crafters)

Now if it was X or Y power modification choices like enchantments... that would be more interesting

Same comments regarding advantages and disadvantages ...

Hope not too much grind or discourages stock piling or trading while encouraging auto gank full loot ;p

Or depressing for the harvesters or crafters when their work is burnt for xp instead of actually 'used'

P.s. instant deleting inventory items is flawed as well

Edited by Tinnis

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2 hours ago, Toadwart said:

So, you cant go out into the campaign world solo, because your friends arent on and going out solo would be suicide, but this system would have you go out into the world solo to gather sacrifice items to pass the time until your friends log on.

Am I misunderstanding how this works?

How does that remotely solve the problem of having nothing to do when your friends arent online if going out solo is a suicide mission?

Anyway, appreciate the thought process, but it seems boring. Really boring. After "one weekend" of effort your gonna soft cap on this minimal increase then this system will keep someone wanting to log in for 0.001% increase thereafter doing boring fed ex task. I cant see it.

I get the impression from merely reading the post that this initial implementation is not meant to be a final and complete solution to the problem they have mentioned.

Maybe they will add other things to do?

Currently, if you have all the gear you need, there is no reason to go out solo and risk dying unless you are comfortable with that risk and you enjoy playing solo.

This type of system they are adding provides at least one additional "Carrot" or incentive to give players something to do.

However, I see your point.

ACE really needs to add more tools to enable players to team up with other random players in their faction.

That could go a long way to keep people playing in the PvP system and able to make viable fighting groups when they individually are basically lone wolves.

The current chat system and grouping tools are obviously first passed placeholders, but they are holding people back from collaborating and continuing to play when they don't have a cohort of buddies to always group with. Map markers, Raid size groups, stuff like that.

Once I've finished level up my vessel, I will be back to the situation of logged off when nobody else is in game from my guild groups. If I could help to form up a a group of randoms and actually lead them around effectively, there would be a reason to stay engaged with PvP.

Edited by DocHollidaze

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