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ACE_JackalBark

Divine Sacrifice - Official Discussion Thread

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6 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

If you can't separate fantasy from reality, you probably should stay away from fantasy that breaches your moral code.

Basically a nicer way of saying what I said, which I will reiterate: you should never expect a multi-million dollar project that is fundamentally someone else's artistic vision to cater to your religious beliefs in any way, and if the fact that fantasy exists in this video game that violates your religion is a dealbreaker for you, you have chosen the wrong game to back.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a hooligan here, but somehow I keep getting emails about this discussion and I am at least as offended that this discussion is being had as you are that it "needs" to be had.

But I'm not asking the game devs to change the game to make me happy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Just now, goose said:

Basically a nicer way of saying what I said, which I will reiterate: you should never expect a multi-million dollar project that is fundamentally someone else's artistic vision to cater to your religious beliefs in any way, and if the fact that fantasy exists in this video game that violates your religion is a dealbreaker for you, you have chosen the wrong game to back.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a hooligan here, but somehow I keep getting emails about this discussion and I am at least as offended that this discussion is being had as you are that it "needs" to be had.

But I'm not asking the game devs to change the game to make me happy.

No guarantee it's a specific religion at play, it could be the opposite. 

I've met many an Atheist that plays D&D try to role play an Atheists position in a world filled with magic and gods, because they were so opposed to the idea of god, they couldn't bring themselves to role play someone who wasn't.

Go watch Erik the Viking, and see a hilarious Christian priest completely ignore/miss/be completely unable to see all the events in the movie that relate to Norse Gods.  

 

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8 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

No guarantee it's a specific religion at play, it could be the opposite. 

I've met many an Atheist that plays D&D try to role play an Atheists position in a world filled with magic and gods, because they were so opposed to the idea of god, they couldn't bring themselves to role play someone who wasn't.

Go watch Erik the Viking, and see a hilarious Christian priest completely ignore/miss/be completely unable to see all the events in the movie that relate to Norse Gods.  

 

I used to play a roleplay-enforced MUD (think text-based WoW literally decades before WoW) where the Gods weren't just the source of all magic in the world, but were characters played by the dev staff who literally came down from the heavens and interacted with the player base.

There were people in that game who chose to play atheist characters. Needless to say, atheists were unable to use magic, and were often given poorly made socks in-character by the actual literal Gods. That always struck me as dumb, but it was a roleplay decision made for fun within the confines of the game, not a choice driven by their beliefs in real life.

What we're talking about here isn't roleplay - we're talking about someone who is so opposed to the existence of a fantasy that contradicts the one they have chosen to believe that they are unwilling to play a game in which that contradictory fantasy is part of the game loop, and are asking that a way to circumvent the game lore be coded in using dev time and money so that they don't have to blaspheme.

Apples and oranges.

Apples and oranges that I have tried to ignore, but that somehow keep showing up in my email inbox.

Edit: that said, your point about someone being unwilling to roleplay something that they consider blasphemous is well taken - I just have to draw a line between "I am unwilling to roleplay a character who has different religious beliefs from me" and "I am unwilling to play this game unless it is coded to reflect, or at least respect, my religious beliefs."

Everyone is entitled not to engage in something that goes against their religion or morals.

No one is entitled to have someone else's art changed to match their religion or morals.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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57 minutes ago, goose said:

I used to play a roleplay-enforced MUD (think text-based WoW literally decades before WoW) where the Gods weren't just the source of all magic in the world, but were characters played by the dev staff who literally came down from the heavens and interacted with the player base.

There were people in that game who chose to play atheist characters. Needless to say, atheists were unable to use magic, and were often given poorly made socks in-character by the actual literal Gods. That always struck me as dumb, but it was a roleplay decision made for fun within the confines of the game, not a choice driven by their beliefs in real life.

What we're talking about here isn't roleplay - we're talking about someone who is so opposed to the existence of a fantasy that contradicts the one they have chosen to believe that they are unwilling to play a game in which that contradictory fantasy is part of the game loop, and are asking that a way to circumvent the game lore be coded in using dev time and money so that they don't have to blaspheme.

Apples and oranges.

Apples and oranges that I have tried to ignore, but that somehow keep showing up in my email inbox.

Edit: that said, your point about someone being unwilling to roleplay something that they consider blasphemous is well taken - I just have to draw a line between "I am unwilling to roleplay a character who has different religious beliefs from me" and "I am unwilling to play this game unless it is coded to reflect, or at least respect, my religious beliefs."

Everyone is entitled not to engage in something that goes against their religion or morals.

No one is entitled to have someone else's art changed to match their religion or morals.

 

Agreed.

17 hours ago, Redbeard_14 said:

Valid point, but It's not the "God" thing I'm uncomfortable with, its the sacrificing to one these "gods".  ....  I'm not saying scrap the idea, I'm just hoping/asking for an alternative for players who may feel this way.   

 

It's a horrible slippery slope to start walking down.  Imagine if for some reason a very devout person had a problem with killing and skinning boars because they were related to 'unclean' pigs, and demanded that ACE provide a different animal with the exact same in game properties to accommodate their particular requirements, or ask ACE to design the game in such a way as to not give disadvantage to those that can't play on the Sabbath because they consider it work.

It can get alarmingly ridiculous and is functionally impossible  to try to appease people's feelings in a very big hurry.  Next thing you know people will be demanding the  allowance for transgendered outfits for all the avatars. The ridiculousness of it has no end, because there are an unlimited number of ridiculous ideas, beliefs and feelings out there, and many of the them are completely contradictory and incompatible. Monotheism, polytheism, and pantheism for example. No matter what they design, it's going to contradict and be uncomfortable to two of the three big categories.

I like to think of games like this as "Role Play" (Although video games are pure crap for doing real role play any way.) 

How would there be any movies or plays about any religious position, if someone did not "role play" the parts of the villains?  The story of Christ would fall flat, if everyone refused to play the part of Judas, or Pilot, or the roman soldiers.  Even non-religious historical events, if nobody was willing to play the role of evil, would be impossible to portray. There could be no Schindler's list if nobody played the role of Amon Leopold Goeth.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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On 12/26/2017 at 1:13 AM, Brindylln said:

I think it's not exactly PvE that is missing, but rather exploration and discovery... the mystery... the themepark attractions.  PvE in this game is quickly repeative, so there is quickly no potential for exploration and nothing new to discover.

PvE heavy games have lots of "content".  Content provides opportunity for people to explore and discover, whether that means the landscape, ruins and temples, dungeons, enchanted forests, etc... or whether it means finding new recipes, discovering skills you didn't know existed, etc.   PvE games have a rich sense of "mystery" and the game has stories, puzzles, and quests.

Content, however, is *expensive* to produce.  You need bucketloads, then truckloads, then stadium loads of content for a game to compete in this space.. and even then players will eventually consume it all.

A PvP game can derive all of its "exploration" potential via the mechanics and interactions themselves.  Eve Online takes years to master... it has essentially no 'landscape" to explore (all the systems look pretty much the same), but the mechanics are deep and complex, the ship fits are very complex and interesting.  That is the kind of model Crowfall seems to be aiming for.

A game that does both things well (PvP and PvE) would be the Holy Grail of the MMORPG world, but nobody has done that yet.  IMHO because (1) it is very expensive, perhaps at least 200 million to develop, and (2) it is very hard to be very good at both aspects, and (3) there is a risk that, due to PvP reasons, players destroy or block access to PvE attractions, causing all those $$$ spent on content development to be mostly wasted.

I've heard that Dark Age of Camelot combined both pretty successfully, but I haven't played it.

 

I think this is where the EKs start to really shine - in the right hands of course.

The design spec for the EKs indicates that there will be some user-definable flags at a pretty granular level for things like PvP and whatnot. So, I'm currently operating under the assumption that for my guild's EK we can have an episodic series of events following a 'local' storyline of political intrigue and inter-kingdom tensions.

If the PvP flags are as granular as indicated, then the palace area will be PvP enabled to allow players to try and dispose of various faction leaders who will be protected by bodyguards, mercenaries, etc. in bids to claim those factions (and the problems that entails!)... Even the throne of the land will be claimable - a group will simply have to get through the house guard and kill the crown. We will (if possible) even open this up to groups from other guilds who might like to participate in the RP-PvP storyline as they can carry that back to their guild and use it to create inter-guild tensions for flavor.

In theory, once a player is killed I (or my officers) can lock out a player from the EK for the three day death cool-down - to limit the rinse-repeat on failure and give losing some teeth. ;)

The area around the palace will be markets and manufacturing, and will be safe from general combat - so if you're in town for the story-driven PvP or just general RP, feel free to do some shopping while you're there. This drives commerce for crafters, which drives desire for gatherers, which makes the world go 'round.

Weekly random 'cells' will be spawned, flagged PvP, and set up for various storyline events; a quick example would be group-A needing to get the supply cart from one location to another, while group-B gets to play highwaymen and stop this from occurring - winner gets to keep what's in the cart (rare mats or something)... Stuff like that will be going on every week.

The rest of the EK will be player housing for anyone who wants to be local to the action.

This is basically the stuff I've been doing in SecondLife for over a decade now, so I have literally volumes of storyline events and interactions that can be re-created in the EK to entertain folks... So, if the EKs actually end up with a lot of the functionality that was proposed early on, I (and others like me) will be the themepark elements. :D

Edited by raeshlavik

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1 hour ago, raeshlavik said:

I think this is where the EKs start to really shine - in the right hands of course.

The design spec for the EKs indicates that there will be some user-definable flags at a pretty granular level for things like PvP and whatnot. So, I'm currently operating under the assumption that for my guild's EK we can have an episodic series of events following a 'local' storyline of political intrigue and inter-kingdom tensions.

If the PvP flags are as granular as indicated, then the palace area will be PvP enabled to allow players to try and dispose of various faction leaders who will be protected by bodyguards, mercenaries, etc. in bids to claim those factions (and the problems that entails!)... Even the throne of the land will be claimable - a group will simply have to get through the house guard and kill the crown. We will (if possible) even open this up to groups from other guilds who might like to participate in the RP-PvP storyline as they can carry that back to their guild and use it to create inter-guild tensions for flavor.

In theory, once a player is killed I (or my officers) can lock out a player from the EK for the three day death cool-down - to limit the rinse-repeat on failure and give losing some teeth. ;)

The area around the palace will be markets and manufacturing, and will be safe from general combat - so if you're in town for the story-driven PvP or just general RP, feel free to do some shopping while you're there. This drives commerce for crafters, which drives desire for gatherers, which makes the world go 'round.

Weekly random 'cells' will be spawned, flagged PvP, and set up for various storyline events; a quick example would be group-A needing to get the supply cart from one location to another, while group-B gets to play highwaymen and stop this from occurring - winner gets to keep what's in the cart (rare mats or something)... Stuff like that will be going on every week.

The rest of the EK will be player housing for anyone who wants to be local to the action.

This is basically the stuff I've been doing in SecondLife for over a decade now, so I have literally volumes of storyline events and interactions that can be re-created in the EK to entertain folks... So, if the EKs actually end up with a lot of the functionality that was proposed early on, I (and others like me) will be the themepark elements. :D

This stuff is awesome... beyond awesome!  Having players create content is actually a dream come true for everybody involved: the creators enjoy it, the players love to play it, and the game developers who don't have time to build massive amounts of content can still get the content they need (albeit a little out of their control).

The game needs to to have certain "features" and allow certain things in order for this stuff to work.  The full set of features required to build EK campaigns and scenarios as you describe will probably not be ready at launch.  But I think ACE would be making a big mistake if they didn't push to have them available shortly thereafter.

Lets brainstorm the features ACE needs to provide in order to enable player-created EK campaign scenarios... I'll start a separate thread for this:

 

Edited by Brindylln
link to new thread

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7 hours ago, goose said:

What we're talking about here isn't roleplay - we're talking about someone who is so opposed to the existence of a fantasy that contradicts the one they have chosen to believe that they are unwilling to play a game in which that contradictory fantasy is part of the game loop, and are asking that a way to circumvent the game lore be coded in using dev time and money so that they don't have to blaspheme.

 

6 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

It's a horrible slippery slope to start walking down.  Imagine if for some reason a very devout person had a problem with killing and skinning boars because they were related to 'unclean' pigs, and demanded that ACE provide a different animal with the exact same in game properties to accommodate their particular requirements, or ask ACE to design the game in such a way as to not give disadvantage to those that can't play on the Sabbath because they consider it work.

It can get alarmingly ridiculous and is functionally impossible  to try to appease people's feelings in a very big hurry.  Next thing you know people will be demanding the  allowance for transgendered outfits for all the avatars. The ridiculousness of it has no end, because there are an unlimited number of ridiculous ideas, beliefs and feelings out there, and many of the them are completely contradictory and incompatible. Monotheism, polytheism, and pantheism for example. No matter what they design, it's going to contradict and be uncomfortable to two of the three big categories.

Guys, they only told they dont feel comfortable with this. There is nothing wrong with that! Why are you guys so hung up on their feedback being "i dont like"? I didnt see any of these guys complain or anything. They literally just said they dont feel comfortable with it.

You guys are making giants out of molehills here. Is it because religion is that much controversial?

7 hours ago, goose said:

I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a hooligan here, but somehow I keep getting emails about this discussion and I am at least as offended that this discussion is being had as you are that it "needs" to be had.

Today internet has hit a new low. It is the first time i see someone lashing at another person just because he is being alerted of new posts on a game forum thread. Honestly... just... Sigh.

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56 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

 

Guys, they only told they dont feel comfortable with this. There is nothing wrong with that! Why are you guys so hung up on their feedback being "i dont like"? I didnt see any of these guys complain or anything. They literally just said they dont feel comfortable with it.

You guys are making giants out of molehills here. Is it because religion is that much controversial?

Today internet has hit a new low. It is the first time i see someone lashing at another person just because he is being alerted of new posts on a game forum thread. Honestly... just... Sigh.

"I'm not comfortable with" is fine.  Making the choice to not play a game that makes you uncomfortable is free choice that can be a noble stand to take. (See plot of "Chariots of fire" regarding the Paris Olympics.) Say it all day long, and do what you will. Saying "I want people to change something core because I am uncomfortable with X", is a no go in my book.

Do you want anti-gun lobbyists to ask for a change of PUBG to nerf weapons, or anti violence types to try to push ACE to not allow PVP combat in a PVP combat game, or animal rights activists to get all up in arms because we kill animals for fur in the game? Nope.

The bottom line is, religious fantasy has always been part of the core vision of the game, and religions have a long tradition of including sacrifice.  If someone does not have a problem with a game that revolves around and has been advertised since day one as a scavenge resources from dying worlds as servants of the gods, with site lore that reads like greek mythology and includes a rather blatant and ham handed call out to religious text style of chapter and verse, and you can get past all that and are suddenly hung up on, and want accommodation for a mechanic that calls itself "sacrifice". Sorry, but I think ACE would be daft to even entertain such accommodation.

Quote

You guys are making giants out of molehills here. Is it because religion is that much controversial?

In a game that revolves completely around the gods dealing with the hunger, to suddenly have what is normally a result of sacrifice being available through a mundane mechanic, would damage the games ambiance and feel like a square peg in a round hole.  

I don't think anything I have said is at all personal or in any way negative towards RedBeard. I would even go so far as to say that if he/she feels that strongly, ACE should give them a refund without question. 

What ACE should not do is spend resources diluting the games vision because it might offend an incredibly marginal number of potential players.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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42 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

"I'm not comfortable with" is fine.  Making the choice to not play a game that makes you uncomfortable is free choice that can be a noble stand to take. (See plot of "Chariots of fire" regarding the Paris Olympics.) Say it all day long, and do what you will. Saying "I want people to change something core because I am uncomfortable with X", is a no go in my book.

Do you want anti-gun lobbyists to ask for a change of PUBG to nerf weapons, or anti violence types to try to push ACE to not allow PVP combat in a PVP combat game, or animal rights activists to get all up in arms because we kill animals for fur in the game? Nope.

The bottom line is, religious fantasy has always been part of the core vision of the game, and religions have a long tradition of including sacrifice.  If someone does not have a problem with a game that revolves around and has been advertised since day one as a scavenge resources from dying worlds as servants of the gods, with site lore that reads like greek mythology and includes a rather blatant and ham handed call out to religious text style of chapter and verse, and you can get past all that and are suddenly hung up on, and want accommodation for a mechanic that calls itself "sacrifice". Sorry, but I think ACE would be daft to even entertain such accommodation. For me it would damage the games ambiance and feel like a square peg in a round hole. 

I don't think anything I have said is at all personal or in any way negative towards RedBeard. I would even go so far as to say that if he/she feels that strongly, ACE should give them a refund without question. 

What ACE should not do is spend resources diluting the games vision because it might offend an incredibly marginal number of potential players.

Again, you are missing the point by thinking too much. NOBODY told ace to change anything, they just provided feedback like everyone else.

The intensity which you guys are trying to invalidate theirs feedback is what made me reply. I dont think it is intentional and as an atheist i agree that bringing religion in games (and in everything else too) is ill advised but their feedback, all things considered, is as valid as anyone else.

Honestly i consider their point of view worth paying attention to. ACE could make slight changes that would leave everybody happy. Yes, that would affect just some specific people but it would IMO be a improvement to the game as a whole. It would be a really bad precedent if we stopped listening to people just because they are the minority...

Whenever  i see people brushing the minority opinion aside this passage comes to mind:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

This can be applied to anything. Anything...

            First they ignored religous people feedback, and I did not speak out—
            Because I was not a religious person.

           ...

Edited by BarriaKarl

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3 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Again, you are missing the point by thinking too much. NOBODY told ace to change anything, they just provided feedback like everyone else.

The intensity which you guys are trying to invalidate theirs feedback is what made me reply. I dont think it is intentional and as an atheist i agree that bringing religion in games (and in everything else too) is ill advised but their feedback, all things considered, is as valid as anyone else.

Honestly i consider their point of view worth paying attention to. ACE could make slight changes that would leave everybody happy. Yes, that would affect just some specific people but it would IMO be a improvement to the game as a whole. It would be a really bad precedent if we stopped listening to people just because they are the minority...

Whenever  i see people brushing the minority opinion aside this passage comes to mind:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

This can be applied to anything. Anything...

            First they ignored religous people feedback, and I did not speak out—
            Because I was not a religious person.

           ...

Ummm yea he did ask.

On 1/1/2018 at 12:17 AM, Redbeard_14 said:

  Hopefully they can put in a option for those who do not want to participate in this system such as dedicating your supplies to the cause of your faction.

ACE can't make changes to make everyone happy, especially from a religious perspective, that's impossible. 

There is a spectrum of belief in all the religious communities, and SOME part of a pantheon of multiple gods is going to rub any Monotheist that takes it at all seriously the wrong way. Some will feel uncomfortable with any magic, as all magicians from a biblical perspective gain their powers from Satan, (E.G. Pharaoh's magicians that turned their staff to snakes.) Some will feel uncomfortable with the idea of a crow (Hebrews 9:27. "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,"), that possess the dead bodies of others.  I could probably give dozens of examples where a Christian could feel uncomfortable with many points of lore that are foundational to this game. 

There is a very good reason I have laced this entire reply with Christian references rather than other religions references. It's because I happen to be one myself.  I have however gotten past this particular internal struggle, which I had to a large degree when I was younger and playing D&D. C.S. Lewis, Narnia, and several biblical passages cured me of that particular aversion. (PM me for details)

I don't want ACE to change the game to suit my or any other religion, because it may not be the religion I happen to follow that it is changed to suit.  I love that ACE has a completely unique pantheon, one removed from almost all historical religious connotations. (Gaea being the obvious exception)

Also, quoting Martin Niemoller's outspoken stance against the German WWII participants (Thanks filter for making a real point seem stupid) in relation to my responses, insinuating that I am somehow the same kind of person that would stand by while people are rounded up and murdered because I happen to not want ACE to accommodate any specific belief system, is very much a bridge too far.

That quote can certainly NOT be applied to anything. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, not flag your post to the mods, and assume that you did not know the true origin or meaning of it, and just thought it something that could give you easy points in the discussion.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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7 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Again, you are missing the point by thinking too much. NOBODY told ace to change anything, they just provided feedback like everyone else.

Sounds like you didn't actually read the comment I was replying to. Someone quite exactly asked ACE to change the game to adhere to their religious preferences, which you apparently also failed to notice was the primary thing I was upset about. The fact that unfollowing the thread and disabling email notifications from the forums has done neither of those things was tangential.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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8 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Also, quoting Martin Niemoller's outspoken stance against the German WWII participants (Thanks filter for making a real point seem stupid) in relation to my responses, insinuating that I am somehow the same kind of person that would stand by while people are rounded up and murdered because I happen to not want ACE to accommodate any specific belief system, is very much a bridge too far.

That quote can certainly NOT be applied to anything. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, not flag your post to the mods, and assume that you did not know the true origin or meaning of it, and just thought it something that could give you easy points in the discussion.

Sorry man,i didnt imply that trust me. I know the original context of the text is dark but i didnt expect people to get hung up on that. I take it as a example of "speak up for others because some day you might need people to do the same to you", just like now where i was trying to make religious people feedback heard even though i am an atheist and wouldnt be affected in anyway.

So, this wont go anywhere good so it is better to let it die out.

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3 hours ago, BarriaKarl said:

Sorry man,i didnt imply that trust me. I know the original context of the text is dark but i didnt expect people to get hung up on that. I take it as a example of "speak up for others because some day you might need people to do the same to you", just like now where i was trying to make religious people feedback heard even though i am an atheist and wouldnt be affected in anyway.

So, this wont go anywhere good so it is better to let it die out.

Apology accepted. 

Ironically, I am a religious person, and most likely understand better than any atheist exactly why someone would feel that way about sacrifice. Look at my stance, ACE should refund without delay if the game causes unexpected moral constrictions. That wasn't because I want them not to play, but because I know how it would rub on my conscious if I had found myself accidently funding something I was morally against. 

 My understanding of the scope of the issue It is one of the primary reasons I don't want ANY religion accomodated in the game. That type of thinking leads people to try to push for the accomodation of secular ideas and behaviours in churches, and leads to the attempted forcing of others to accept what they don't find morally acceptable.

Separation of Church and State, but more like Church and game, is the safest and most sensible approach. That requires zero attempts be made to accommodate any particular belief system. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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8 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Apology accepted. 

Ironically, I am a religious person, and most likely understand better than any atheist exactly why someone would feel that way about sacrifice. Look at my stance, ACE should refund without delay if the game causes unexpected moral constrictions. That wasn't because I want them not to play, but because I know how it would rub on my conscious if I had found myself accidently funding something I was morally against. 

 My understanding of the scope of the issue It is one of the primary reasons I don't want ANY religion accomodated in the game. That type of thinking leads people to try to push for the accomodation of secular ideas and behaviours in churches, and leads to the attempted forcing of others to accept what they don't find morally acceptable.

Separation of Church and State, but more like Church and game, is the safest and most sensible approach. That requires zero attempts be made to accommodate any particular belief system. 

Once again, a much more concise and polite version of what I said. I should just declare you my public mouthpiece and enjoy some popcorn.

Just for posterity, though, I - like many Jews - am an atheist in a unique position of simultaneous understanding of and disdain for religion as a whole, because I - like many Jews - recognize firsthand that your particular religious beliefs and my particular religious beliefs matter very, very little when it comes to arguments about "religious beliefs." They are unique and personal and have absolutely no place in this discussion.

Edit: tl;dr, I agree 100% that one should always speak up for people being unfairly persecuted, regardless of the specific circumstances. But this was not that.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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On 12/22/2017 at 12:42 AM, CianeTaylor said:

The idea of being forced to engage in sacrifice to God's for player power is really off-putting.  Worship and video games should not co-mingle in my opinion.  [...]  I would feel uncomfortable engaging in this.

Murdering peers: check
Scavenging dead bodies for organs: check
Making Frankenstein-like creatures out of pieces of rotten corpses sewn together: check 
Burning random belongings in a camp fire and pretending it's a sacrifice to the gods: <cries of outrage>

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On 1/1/2018 at 5:04 PM, Redbeard_14 said:

Valid point, but It's not the "God" thing I'm uncomfortable with, its the sacrificing to one these "gods".  I like to create lore and a back story for my character in MMO's ( i am aware that it's not unnecessary and stupid to some) that agree with my beliefs.  Sacrificing to a god in the game just rubs me wrong.  A part of MMO's that draw people to them is the fantasy part of it, an opportunity to relate to your character and to feel "attached" to there development.  I'm not saying scrap the idea, I'm just hoping/asking for an alternative for players who may feel this way.   

In Acts 17:23, the Apostle Paul stated that Athens already had a temple to God (the real one) before he and Barnabas showed up as missionaries spreading the good news. PM me if you'd like to hear that news. It was called the temple "to the unknown God" and it looked much like any other temple in Corinth, except that on the pedestal at its center, there was no graven image or statue to any god.

This seems to me to be an acceptable answer to the dilemma for players wanting to be competitive in CF, but not wanting to blaspheme God by worshiping some fake "god". It should theologically satisfy Christians, Jews, and rabid atheists. IDK much about Islam or other monotheistic religions.

TL;DR:     Just make it possible to have a temple with a place to sacrifice, but no statue or other image to a "god", but sacrifices get full effect, ACE.

If you believe it's a sin to waste time playing an MMORPG instead of reaching out to your family or neighbors, then I still have no good workaround for that, but enjoy the milk I did share (1Corinthians 3:1-3).

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Changing a game mechanic in Crowfall to appeal to an opinion of a minority group that probably won't even make up 1% of Crowfall's player base is pretty needy and flat out a waste of time and resources.

It's a video game. I have never met anyone in real life that considers them to be reality or have met anyone that knows someone that does. I also don't think anyone that's religious is going to seriously be up in arms about destroying virtual "property" to gain favor for a virtual deity to get some kind of virtual benefit from it that is made possibly with a computer programming language.

Let's cut the ridiculousness. Sometimes I feel like people just post these kinds of things just to get a rise out of everyone else and to waste people's time. Nobody that's going to play Crowfall is seriously going to think that getting rid of their in game items to get a character buff in any fashion is worshipping a false god. If you do, I think you have serious issues in grasping what is happening in our reality.


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