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Mayhem_

IP Routing - Network Engineer help

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Hey guys,

I hate doing it but i need help!!!  :)

Been playing CF since last December with never an issue until I recently tried playing 5.3 on Live (I skipped Test).  Out of nowhere I am getting a crazy route the to the CF server.  I live in Costa Rica ....... but a guildie living in the states has a similar issue.

Here is my typical TraceRT to Google DNS 8.8.8.8 that has remained "pretty" constant for years.

C:\Users\Mayhem>tracert 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     7 ms     2 ms     2 ms  ControlPanel.Home [192.168.1.1]
  2     9 ms     9 ms     7 ms  10.178.68.3
  3     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  10.178.108.29
  4    10 ms    14 ms    12 ms  10.178.108.22
  5    12 ms    12 ms     9 ms  10.178.168.121
  6    51 ms    52 ms    51 ms  10.178.168.234
  7    60 ms    59 ms    59 ms  sl-mst50-mia-.sprintlink.net [144.232.236.173]
  8    66 ms    59 ms    59 ms  72.14.223.228
  9    59 ms    60 ms    59 ms  108.170.249.17
 10    59 ms    58 ms    59 ms  108.170.228.35
 11    52 ms    50 ms    53 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

Here is my TraceRT to the CF Server (I am X'ing out the IP just because It seems the right thing to do and not sure if they wanted it broadcasted)

C:\Users\rhett>tracert 54.236.219.29

Tracing route to ec2-X.X.X.X .compute-1.amazonaws.com [X.X.X.X]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     1 ms     3 ms  ControlPanel.Home [192.168.1.1]
  2    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  10.178.68.3
  3     9 ms     9 ms    10 ms  10.178.108.29
  4    12 ms    16 ms     9 ms  10.178.108.22
  5    10 ms    14 ms    11 ms  10.178.168.121
  6    59 ms    60 ms    59 ms  10.178.140.134
  7    62 ms    59 ms    60 ms  sl-mst50-mia-.sprintlink.net [144.232.236.173]
  8    51 ms    51 ms    55 ms  52.95.216.224
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10    51 ms    54 ms    50 ms  52.93.37.22
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15    77 ms   109 ms    96 ms  54.239.110.183
 16    77 ms    77 ms    76 ms  54.239.111.39
 17   113 ms   115 ms    77 ms  52.93.24.92
 18    76 ms    76 ms    77 ms  52.93.70.25
 19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 21     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 23     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 24    75 ms    74 ms    74 ms  ec2-5[X.X.X.X].compute-1.amazonaws.com [X.X.X.X]

Trace complete.

UGLY UGLY UGLY .......and completely unplayable......... I get disconnected so often I can barely keep my training up to date..... in fact, it's not as I can't trust when it actually says training has started and it really did not.

Considering VPN but really hate "band-aids"

The 10.x.x.x network is my local I ISP and fine through them.  The 7th hop (Outside my ISP) sends me to Seattle for ()_*&)*(^)&%^ who knows why reason.  The ONLY routing issue i have is to the CF Server IP.   I have tested with multiple PC;s from multiple ISP's and same results with all.  Again, this issue is 5.3 or last 6 weeks recent.

Ace has thrown in the towel and has nothing further to offer on resolution.

If any one out there has a some possible solutions to try........  I would REALLY APPRECIATE IT!

PM me if you need the Server IP.... I'm sure it's fine for anyone actually trying to help :)   

Thanks,

Mayhem

  

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Well 10.x.x.x is a local address, this would not yet be in your ISP actually, unless you literally sitting an an office of your ISP ofc). Nothing out in the cloud would have such an IP, so before sl-mst50-mia-.sprintlink.net [144.232.236.173] you have not actually left the building you are physically sitting in (unless said building would be part of a larger organization or something, then you could have been jumping to another part of the organization, but you would still not have entered ISP domain yet).

Considering this, nothing you can really do at your end considering the first timeout happen the jump after that address, the issue is somewhere between you and Crowfall, so best bet is to talk with your ISP really and try and figure out where it goes wrong. Maybe try and get some of the trace routes your US friends have that goes bad as well, to make it easier for them to find the similarities. The ISP really seem like the ones in the best position to fix it

8.8.8.8 is good to determine if you have a stable Internet in general, but its useless to compare to other routes really, because its is such a widely used address and lots of redundancy likely, due to being owned by google, making it at any time one of, if not the most stable route you can take, and thus minimizes the chance that issues will be outside what you can control.

Why do you find it weird you get sent to Seattle though? Not horribly far off, and best route is rarely the shortest route

 

Also keep in mind any timeout below the first one is useless info, since all subsequent steps have to go through that one bad apple to reach it, meaning it basically have the potneital to mess up the entirety of the rest of the trace even if there are no further problems

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I don't get why you think the 10.x network is not the ISP........ its literally the next hop after my 192.x router.......then 10.x is internal ISP routing within the country (Costa Rica) and handed off at 144.232.236.173 (Sprint in Miami) - CCNP back in 2001 and have not used since but I fail to see why the 10.x/192.x could not be used country wide by a ISP.  Back in the Day we used the 10.x network world wide at Intel with probably half a million IP's on it.  3 years ago this ISP was the ONLY and State Ran ISP.  But none of this really matters :)

144.232.236.173 is in Miami and I am in Costa Rica - My ISP has nothing that can be done after that - 

I find it weird that it gets sent to Seattle (52.x) because it goes there first then back to VA (54.x and server location) then back to Seattle "again" before reaching it's destination on the 54.x Server location network.

Sorry if I am missing something totally obvious here....... It really has been a LONG TIME since messed with this stuff!

I guess i can try and see if my ISP can move my route to a different hand-off other than 144.232.236.173 ?

Here is a TraceRT from a Guildie in the States:

tracert ec2-54-236-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com

Tracing route to ec2-54-236-219-xx.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.xx]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  modem.Home [192.168.0.1]
  2     8 ms     6 ms     7 ms  71-221-0-254.klln.qwest.net [71.221.0.254]
  3     7 ms     6 ms     6 ms  klln-agw1.inet.qwest.net [75.160.229.253]
  4    50 ms    51 ms    50 ms  dca2-edge-01.inet.qwest.net [67.14.36.10]
  5    52 ms    50 ms    50 ms  65.120.78.82
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8    68 ms    60 ms   145 ms  54.239.110.197
  9    51 ms    51 ms    51 ms  54.239.111.101
 10    54 ms    53 ms    53 ms  52.93.24.236
 11    50 ms    51 ms    50 ms  52.93.70.17
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17    50 ms    50 ms    50 ms  ec2-54-236-219-xx.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.29]


Trace complete.

Thanks,

Mayhem

 

 

 

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Login on one account.

Everything works perfect.

Logout (not quitting the game)

Then log in on another account.

Settings skills : Start disconnecting constantly.

Logging in : blue screen only.

 


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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The 10.x network is most likely your internal ISP's gear, their routers and such. All the strangeness on your tracert starts to happen in Amazon land. Of course they haven't mentioned their server setup but it does appear that they are bouncing you all over the place in their internal network. There is definitely a lot of latency added once it gets to their servers. My route is similar to yours, it enters Amazon's network in Virginia and ends in Seattle, which is only 40 miles up the road. 

I'm certain ArtCraft understand completely what they are doing as those stops are probably within the local server routing that they pay for. All this could be a part of their internal server testing. They could be testing out different server clusters. 

At least your numbers to Miami are consistent. 

 

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5 hours ago, Mayhem_ said:

I don't get why you think the 10.x network is not the ISP........ its literally the next hop after my 192.x router.......then 10.x is internal ISP routing within the country (Costa Rica) and handed off at 144.232.236.173 (Sprint in Miami) - CCNP back in 2001 and have not used since but I fail to see why the 10.x/192.x could not be used country wide by a ISP.  Back in the Day we used the 10.x network world wide at Intel with probably half a million IP's on it.  3 years ago this ISP was the ONLY and State Ran ISP.  But none of this really matters :)

 

Well I guess it would be technically possible, and you are certainly right it doesn't matter for you since you use a 192.168 private networks yourself anyway, but it is VERY bad practice, and could cause all sorts of issues for companies that need more than the 254 addresses internally that the 192.168 provides and thus would need to use a 10.x.x.x address, but yeah again whatever, doesn't really matter.

That said now that you did expose the IP (Which I really don't see the harm in anyway),  I tried do it myself as well, and I get a very similar result (I am from Europe, more specifically Denmark btw), even though I don't really have any network related problems with the game

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert 54.236.219.29

Tracing route to ec2-54-236-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.29]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     6 ms     5 ms     5 ms  lo0.br1-vir.ip.fullrate.dk [90.185.1.175]
  3     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  xe-4-2-1-148.virnqe10.dk.ip.tdc.net [87.61.124.105]
  4    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  ae0-0.ashbnqp2.us.ip.tdc.net [83.88.21.3]
  5    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  peer-as16509.ashbnqp2.us.ip.tdc.net [195.215.109.115]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8   115 ms   105 ms   113 ms  54.239.110.131
  9    98 ms    98 ms    97 ms  54.239.111.35
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  72.21.220.213
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  ec2-54-236-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.29]

Trace complete.

 

So this means that really at best your tracert in this case is sub-optimal in info it provides, and at worst, completely useless, the timeout's thus I would geuss would would be those servers actively blocking ICMP packets (which is the packets use for ping (and thus tracert too, since that is nothing more than a stream of pings with different TTL's(Time To Live)), but not for anything with "meaningful" data in them)

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8 hours ago, Soulreaver said:

Settings skills : Start disconnecting constantly.

+1  - Just trying to tackle one issue at a time

 

6 hours ago, Spawl said:

The 10.x network is most likely your internal ISP's gear, their routers and such. All the strangeness on your tracert starts to happen in Amazon land. Of course they haven't mentioned their server setup but it does appear that they are bouncing you all over the place in their internal network. There is definitely a lot of latency added once it gets to their servers. My route is similar to yours, it enters Amazon's network in Virginia and ends in Seattle, which is only 40 miles up the road. 

I'm certain ArtCraft understand completely what they are doing as those stops are probably within the local server routing that they pay for. All this could be a part of their internal server testing. They could be testing out different server clusters. 

At least your numbers to Miami are consistent. 

 

Here is Ace's last comment and closure on the issue:

Unfortunately this problem is completely outside our sphere of influence and expertise. You can try connecting from other providers if possible (friend's house, a cafe, or similar) and see if you can narrow it down that way. According to our tech guys, it's not anything on our end that's causing the issue.

Part that kind of kicked me in the butt here was the total disregard of all the time I spent helping them on this issue to be told this.  I have Tracerts from 3 different PC's off of 2 different clients downloads and 3 completely different ISP's and my US Guildies trace route -  27/28 emails..........  Not sure if they are using a CRM but it needs some work. 

4 hours ago, Gummiel said:

Well I guess it would be technically possible, and you are certainly right it doesn't matter for you since you use a 192.168 private networks yourself anyway, but it is VERY bad practice, and could cause all sorts of issues for companies that need more than the 254 addresses internally that the 192.168 provides and thus would need to use a 10.x.x.x address, but yeah again whatever, doesn't really matter.

That said now that you did expose the IP (Which I really don't see the harm in anyway),  I tried do it myself as well, and I get a very similar result (I am from Europe, more specifically Denmark btw), even though I don't really have any network related problems with the game

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert 54.236.219.29

Tracing route to ec2-54-236-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.29]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     6 ms     5 ms     5 ms  lo0.br1-vir.ip.fullrate.dk [90.185.1.175]
  3     5 ms     5 ms     5 ms  xe-4-2-1-148.virnqe10.dk.ip.tdc.net [87.61.124.105]
  4    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  ae0-0.ashbnqp2.us.ip.tdc.net [83.88.21.3]
  5    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  peer-as16509.ashbnqp2.us.ip.tdc.net [195.215.109.115]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8   115 ms   105 ms   113 ms  54.239.110.131
  9    98 ms    98 ms    97 ms  54.239.111.35
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  72.21.220.213
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 15     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17    97 ms    97 ms    97 ms  ec2-54-236-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com [54.236.219.29]

Trace complete.

 

So this means that really at best your tracert in this case is sub-optimal in info it provides, and at worst, completely useless, the timeout's thus I would geuss would would be those servers actively blocking ICMP packets (which is the packets use for ping (and thus tracert too, since that is nothing more than a stream of pings with different TTL's(Time To Live)), but not for anything with "meaningful" data in them)

Sorry Ace...... Looks like I missed  X'ing out an Octect  - not that matters ....pretty sere my 12 year old son could get it if he wanted too :) 

As for the 10.x network....... Welcome to the 3rd world...... and even though i have not been at it in over a decade I have seen way stranger stuff than this.

Honestly, your not really telling me anything I don't already understand....... This is the info Ace requested, and 28 emails later told to me to go try a "cafe"

 

@TyrantAnd despite all this I can still ping the server in 74ms........ Nothing is adding up on why the continuous disconnects are occuring

Edited by Mayhem_
Ping

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Your tracert looks fine, and your RTTs are quite respectable.  I get about the same from Western Canada.  Your issues with disconnects are unlikely to be carrier related, frankly.  I'd be more inclined to blame something on your machine for the disconnects.  Either software interfering (AV software and software firewalls are the most frequent culprits), or possibly (though quite unlikely, given that you said it's only CF you're having issues with) a flaky ethernet port.  Your modem could also be to blame, especially if it has a firewall built in.

Run a "ping -t 54.236.219.29" for an hour and see what you get in terms of packet loss.  Anything under 2% should be fine.  If you do get more than that, run "ping -t 10.178.168.234" (your provider's far edge) and see if the rate differs there.  If you get a high rate of packet loss to 10.178.168.234, that's something you can take to your ISP and complain about.  At that point they'll want to check your modem and the first upstream router (the CO), most likely.

I suspect the ping dumps will rule out network issues, and would suggest you look carefully at software on your PC or a firewall on your modem.

Good luck!

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2 minutes ago, durenthal said:

Your tracert looks fine, and your RTTs are quite respectable.  I get about the same from Western Canada.  Your issues with disconnects are unlikely to be carrier related, frankly.  I'd be more inclined to blame something on your machine for the disconnects.  Either software interfering (AV software and software firewalls are the most frequent culprits), or possibly (though quite unlikely, given that you said it's only CF you're having issues with) a flaky ethernet port.  Your modem could also be to blame, especially if it has a firewall built in.

Run a "ping -t 54.236.219.29" for an hour and see what you get in terms of packet loss.  Anything under 2% should be fine.  If you do get more than that, run "ping -t 10.178.168.234" (your provider's far edge) and see if the rate differs there.  If you get a high rate of packet loss to 10.178.168.234, that's something you can take to your ISP and complain about.  At that point they'll want to check your modem and the first upstream router (the CO), most likely.

I suspect the ping dumps will rule out network issues, and would suggest you look carefully at software on your PC or a firewall on your modem.

Good luck!

Thanks- 

Ya..... Originally I was OK with the RTT's .....but with out dumping 28 emails of info I was led to believe according to their "tech dept"  (Would love an @name for one of them) that that was not the case  

I have run about a 5 min ping @ avg 74ms with very low packet loss..........  But I will run an hour and dump it to Ace......good idea on the same for my ISP's edge......my gut is telling me nothing there but better to be thorough 

Not PC related ....well possible.......but on all 3 PC's I test it on?

 

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Do you use the same AV / software firewall on all 3?  Do they share a modem (or router - cable and dsl modems get called routers all the time)?  Does that modem/router have a firewall or do packet shaping?

If you already ran a ping to the AWS server with very low packet loss, then chances are it's not a carrier issue, but yeah, run the long ping tests just in case.

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Hheheeheh I get where your going and Thank you...... that would actually be "helpfull" but I tried all that already:

Ahh ya.... "Modems" :)

3 PC's with and with out FW's runnning (Only remember trying that on one and will revisit (All AVG)

2 different Client downloads

3 ISP's (ICE, CableTica, Tigo) from 3 Different location (Home and 2 offices I set up)  No Firewalls..... .hheheheh and you finally got me on on something new.....never heard of Packet shaping but guessing that is something I would have to turn on and did not.

Sent this page link as my last response to my running ACE email thread on the issue - Appreciated

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mayhem_ said:

Sorry Ace...... Looks like I missed  X'ing out an Octect  - not that matters ....pretty sere my 12 year old son could get it if he wanted too :) 

As for the 10.x network....... Welcome to the 3rd world...... and even though i have not been at it in over a decade I have seen way stranger stuff than this.

Honestly, your not really telling me anything I don't already understand....... This is the info Ace requested, and 28 emails later told to me to go try a "cafe"

Well kinda hard to know how much the other part knows when you never talked with them before :P, so in that case I just assume they are total dummies at it, but yeah gotta agree with durenthal now that it likely on your machines, something is happening, but sounds like he got even more of a grasp on it than I, so I will probably shut up for now

(While I do have an IT-support education completed, I never actually managed to get a job, so got quite a bit of knowledge, but lacking the actual real world experience I geuss, went on to grab a computer science education instead, that I am in progress with now though that should have better job-chances)

Edited by Gummiel

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@Gummiel  No Issues thanks for trying to help

@Everyone

I should have put in the OP the actual issue.  "Continuous disconnects during training and trying enter the campaign"

@Soulreaver  Your Comment on training actually led me down a new path of thinking

Been playing with the IP issue because it was suggested by ACE and even with the 74ms ping I had to admit the Route was UGLY!  

But after SR's comment I realized I was also always doing multiple re-loggs during single client sessions (For Training) and having to quit and restart on when the "Disconnect from hosts" issues started

I currently have 2 accts running on 2 different clients that entered the campaigns right away without relogging to check to on the others......... so far 40 min plus with no issues.  

Got to break and get some work in but will back track and compare to the multiple re-loggs on single active clients - so far this is looking where the issue lies

Let you know in a couple hours.

Mayhem 

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10 minutes ago, Mayhem_ said:

But after SR's comment I realized I was also always doing multiple re-loggs during single client sessions (For Training)

That would explain it. Right now re-logging is bugged. You need to quit the client completely when switching accounts or you will get disconnected.


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26 minutes ago, Jah said:

That would explain it. Right now re-logging is bugged. You need to quit the client completely when switching accounts or you will get disconnected.

Is ACE aware of this?  It would seem "No" giving the logs I have sent in and this never mentioned and turned instead to completely different path

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5 minutes ago, Tyrant said:

This is good stuff, we totally missed the real bug (relogging disconnects) while looking at the crazy routing going on.

Thanks folks!

FYI it works differently on LIVE than TEST.

I can relog on TEST without getting disconnected. Not so on LIVE.


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