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DeHei

Item durability lost with death maybe too high?! - Solution

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I know its realistic, that items lose durability after a hard battle. With 1 dead the durability lose with 10% isnt high, when we want to think realistic about that. But the consequences for this game are maybe too bad?!

Just with my experience for some weeks and crafting my gear the 3th or 4th time, i need to say, its hard to run out solo in this dangerous world!

Most guys i see just harvest nearly all the time in the "save" start area. Just groups of 3 people or more or guys with much experience are going out. This guys often have allready there advanced gear and enough materials to craft it again and again. I dont need to say, that you need to go out to be able to craft advanced gear?

Everybody was running out with basic gear and get this experience how fast his gear is destroyed. Then you go farming very fast for an advanced weapon with basic gear or other. After rebuilding your gear some times and learning how important the bankingsystem is after losing some materials, in reason of looted from other players, you feel more experienced. With this experience you dont want to run out there with high risk of death again. So you just farm in a save zone and waiting for action with a group like others do. BUT we have a problem here... in reason of that, the game experience isnt great like it could be... 

I would be happy to be possible to repair my gear with just few materials again and again. The other option would be to reduce the durability lost with a dead, but this would destroy the realistic feeling again... With a crafting repair tool like this we would see more of that guys running outside for a better experience i guess. What do you think? ;)

Edited by DeHei

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the issue is its 10% of MAX durability lost every time you res and "recover" your body at the statue. So currently your options are to get a new vessel and lost 100% of everything or take 10% durability loss to everything. Cool got it but my and I'm sure several other peoples issue with this is simply- How on earth is the time investment of farming, crafting, failing, farming again, crafting again then finally getting a decent rolled item that in 10 deaths regardless of 100 durability or 2000 durability is gone to the ether.

This system makes every single durability roll (aside from tools) absolutely pointless and a waste of time giving people the false pretense of if I get more durability it will last longer. The system should be 10% of BASE durability so if the base item is 750 durability with no rolls and you get some good rolls on the bars/sub combines and end up putting some rolls in and get 1500 durability overall then congrats your item still takes a hit on death/recovery but it now actually lasts twice as long as a basic non rolled item making the hours of farming and failing at crafting actually worth while. 

 

The current setup really makes me feel like its a system designed to be a time dump with giving you the ability to be better for 10 deaths but in the end you spent hours and lost it and I spend 30 minutes and lost it. Who actually lost more?

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On 12/31/2017 at 10:58 PM, Venark said:

How on earth is the time investment of farming, crafting, failing, farming again, crafting again then finally getting a decent rolled item that in 10 deaths

Because in the final game you won't be the only one working on supplying you with equipment. It will be a collaborative effort for your guild to keep everyone equipped and replenish lost gear.

Edited by recatek

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:08 PM, recatek said:

Because in the final game you won't be the only one working on supplying you with equipment. It will be a collaborative effort for your guild to keep everyone equipped and replenish lost gear.

I'm already in a guild that works like that. We work together to farm and craft but the more people that are there to help means the more you still have to gear up. solo or in a group the time and effort required does not equal the speed in which the items are destroyed.

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There are some issues with durability in the current system (10% of max instead of base).

Decay is needed, however, to maintain a balanced and shallow power curve with gear. And decay is absolutely necessary to keep a player-crafted economy running. The biggest problem is that the flow of resources going into the system is too low currently for the loop to feel balanced and fun.


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There is no repair....

 

Sacrifice system could present a manner of repair - sacrificing ressources for the repair to vessels (and gear) - with each use remove max durability and thus lower the amount of deaths before needing to repeat the process


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Games where you risk losing your entire inventory on death or where there is high item durability loss on death only work when gear/items are extremely easy to replace.

That is not anywhere near what Crowfall is like currently.

One of the main reasons that people left Shadowbane and never returned was that guilds (large groups) of people would spend a month+ gathering materials and crafting their strongholds/villages. It took alot of work and effort. Then some random guild would come by, lay siege to your stronghold and destroy everything you and your friends worked so hard to make.

People often didnt rebuild, they said screw this crap, Id rather quit than go through all of that effort again, just to lose it to the next group of people to wander by. So they left Shadowbane and never returned.

The same thing will happen in this game if gathering and crafting are too time consuming and too tedious.

If the game revolves around losing your possessions repeatedly and often, those possessions better be damned easy to replace or Crowfall will be scrambling to replace its customers.

I was there. It was sickening to see good friends leave in disgust. History repeats itself.

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9 hours ago, Toadwart said:

Games where you risk losing your entire inventory on death or where there is high item durability loss on death only work when gear/items are extremely easy to replace.

That is not anywhere near what Crowfall is like currently.

One of the main reasons that people left Shadowbane and never returned was that guilds (large groups) of people would spend a month+ gathering materials and crafting their strongholds/villages. It took alot of work and effort. Then some random guild would come by, lay siege to your stronghold and destroy everything you and your friends worked so hard to make.

People often didnt rebuild, they said screw this crap, Id rather quit than go through all of that effort again, just to lose it to the next group of people to wander by. So they left Shadowbane and never returned.

The same thing will happen in this game if gathering and crafting are too time consuming and too tedious.

If the game revolves around losing your possessions repeatedly and often, those possessions better be damned easy to replace or Crowfall will be scrambling to replace its customers.

I was there. It was sickening to see good friends leave in disgust. History repeats itself.

I am going to be a gatherer and right now even making basic gear, tools, and weapons takes way too long. I feel like the cost to craft stuff needs to be tuned down. It shouldn't feel like I need to play 1 hour to start getting enough resources to make basic gear and then rune tools. It's just a bit silly.

Even in games like Albion Online where you can lose all your gear didn't make it easy to get your stuff back from gathering and crafting. It took a nice time sink and often would put you in situations where you would lose more gear and items instead of actually recovering from the previous loss. Gathering and crafting in that game is even more boring, time consuming, and tedious than in Crowfall.

I am not trying to say things are easy right now in the current test environment. Gathering and crafting is tedious and boring. I'd probably be more excited to play test and mess around if things just didn't take so long to acquire. I really do find it annoying to make "advanced" gear you can make with no skill training so tedious to make. Crafting items should only go up in complexity and difficulty as you unlock more crafting recipes with skill training. Not like how it is where things are like flat and then it spikes up through the clouds in complexity and difficulty of acquiring everything for a recipe. If we had blueprints in the game that would be different and maybe they are and I just don't know it yet.


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On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 7:45 PM, Toadwart said:

Games where you risk losing your entire inventory on death or where there is high item durability loss on death only work when gear/items are extremely easy to replace.

That is not anywhere near what Crowfall is like currently.

One of the main reasons that people left Shadowbane and never returned was that guilds (large groups) of people would spend a month+ gathering materials and crafting their strongholds/villages. It took alot of work and effort. Then some random guild would come by, lay siege to your stronghold and destroy everything you and your friends worked so hard to make.

People often didnt rebuild, they said screw this crap, Id rather quit than go through all of that effort again, just to lose it to the next group of people to wander by. So they left Shadowbane and never returned.

The same thing will happen in this game if gathering and crafting are too time consuming and too tedious.

If the game revolves around losing your possessions repeatedly and often, those possessions better be damned easy to replace or Crowfall will be scrambling to replace its customers.

I was there. It was sickening to see good friends leave in disgust. History repeats itself.

 

I can see this happening. Already getting annoyed that I'm going around having fun, dying 6-8 times in fun fights then having to spend around an hour gathering and crafting just to go out there and have fun again. I don't mind the inv being looted that's part of the fun but something needs to be sorted about the duration loss on death, its far to high and just makes a pointless loop which makes the game boring.

You should be able to repair an item X amount of times before its regarded useless or 5 point duration loss per death, not 10% ( which I think it is atm), this means an item will last a nice amount of time (even longer if you get to make a large duration item) allowing you to have more fun without the constant loop issue.

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I like the idea of a repair but it's limited by a second stat. DAoC had this in that the more you repaired the longer the gear lasted but if you waited till it was nearly destroyed it wouldn't last that long.

If a set of gear is destroyed after 10 deaths then a repair system could stretch that to 15 or 20 under ideal maintenance. Ideally the crafter would do the repair that would require materials of like kind. This would give another sink of materials.

I believe people should understand they won't have purples or legendaries in big battles. I believe the best cost : performance will be common or uncommon.

But this is all speculation because the whole crafting circle isn't fully in test.


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The design is terrible. Play lumberjack simulator for an hour or more then do the tedious crafting, only to run out and get completely destroyed by the vet players. Armor and weapons break and you feel like you might as well be starting the game over from scratch.

Crafting anything besides leather armor is near impossible because they created 1 node on the map for each material type.

Everyone plays the OP class/race of current patch, because game design allows you to.

Hotkey bar swapping? really? is this a xbox game along with all the huge limitations that come with that? I'm starting to think that it is and just that and we are the dummy PC players that invested our time and money to help them develop a poorly made socksty console game.

I had high hopes for this game, but don't anymore.

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2 hours ago, koregen said:

The design is terrible. Play lumberjack simulator for an hour or more then do the tedious crafting, only to run out and get completely destroyed by the vet players. Armor and weapons break and you feel like you might as well be starting the game over from scratch.

Crafting anything besides leather armor is near impossible because they created 1 node on the map for each material type.

Everyone plays the OP class/race of current patch, because game design allows you to.

Hotkey bar swapping? really? is this a xbox game along with all the huge limitations that come with that? I'm starting to think that it is and just that and we are the dummy PC players that invested our time and money to help them develop a poorly made socksty console game.

I had high hopes for this game, but don't anymore.

Read 5.4 patch notes.  Some of your concerns are already changing

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I think the dura loss is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it will encourage more thoughtful gameplay from groups and individuals alike, while on the other hand it'll make people less interested in risky pvp. This will create a scenario similar to other full loss PvP games where the only real PvP is found in 1vX where gatherers are the main target of gank squads and real fights are avoided. This is fine as long as people have options that allow them to escape these groups, but those options are few and far between as of right now.

I think percentage durability loss is a poor choice because it makes a lot of the durability experimentation pointless. If durability loss were handled like... '10% of maximum durability up to 100', it would make higher durability gear more useful. 

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16 minutes ago, SaranWrap said:

This will create a scenario similar to other full loss PvP games where the only real PvP is found in 1vX where gatherers are the main target of gank squads and real fights are avoided. This is fine as long as people have options that allow them to escape these groups, but those options are few and far between as of right now.

The best defense against being ganked while harvesting is bringing friends.


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Just now, Jah said:

The best defense against being ganked while harvesting is bringing friends.

Yes, of course, but what does someone do when they want to play Crowfall and most of their guild is offline? Motherloads require group play with rewards high enough to bring a party. This would be the equivalent of Sleeper Sites in EVE. However, solo content must exist in my mind, otherwise you end up with a game that is too difficult for new players to approach.

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I think the solution is making crafting easier, not adding more durability or decreasing durability loss on death.

Death should be harsh, otherwise it is not feared. I get bored of most single player games, because you die and respawn and nothing bad ever happened to you. You are a god that does not fear death. Then there is Dark Souls. Although you know you will die a lot in a game like Dark Souls, you still fear death because you lose something of value.

10% durability loss is very little for a death. Think of top tier gear that took a long time to harvest and craft. Do you want that player to have that gear forever? I personally don't and think it should break rather quickly.

The big fix is the lowest tier of gear, needs to be easy to craft. I should be able to get a basic set of gear in 5-10 minutes of harvesting/crafting. Any longer then that and people will quit this game the first time they play. Most people don't want to hit nodes for more than 5-10 minutes when they first start a game.

The current phase of testing that has everyone log in naked and spend an hour (if you aren't ganked, longer if you are) harvesting/crafting will not work for player retention.

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Well the thing is though that over time things will be easier to replace.  As gatherers and crafters train in their respective skill trees it will be easier to make that gear or gather those resources.  It hurts a lot at the start, trust me I know, but as time passes things will get easier or at the very least faster.  

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also note that durability could be changed in the Campaign settings! 

I'm still advocating a repair system with an eventual break of the item.


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On 4.1.2018 at 7:26 AM, miraluna said:

There are some issues with durability in the current system (10% of max instead of base).

Decay is needed, however, to maintain a balanced and shallow power curve with gear. And decay is absolutely necessary to keep a player-crafted economy running. The biggest problem is that the flow of resources going into the system is too low currently for the loop to feel balanced and fun.

Maybe, but we actually dont get the bonus from mail/plate/leather like it should be. Maybe i miss something, but i farmed, weared a better mail plate and using disciplines for supportpower or attackpower dont give a real bonus. I just lose some runningspeed for nearly the same damage mitigation. Isnt a good trade actually... The basic poor quality gear is BIS (best in slot) in my eyes in reason of some arguments...

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