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Wavemannova

Disappointed in the direction

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Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

 

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I think the concept of campaigns being more or less a fresh start is really going to lend itself to the games vision for notable crafters.

We don't know yet how much influence disciplines will have on crafting but I can imagine it being almost as significant as the combat disciplines - to a degree. On top of that crafters won't be less integral just because all players have invested in the skill, they will be integral because of how they wield it! Same could be said for combatants, everyone gets combat skill but will everyone be a known fighter? Is it any less effort for a crafter? I would say it is probably more effort!

To the notion that you won't be a real crafter until much time has passed... Well, you can still gather resources, you can still craft items that everyone will need and you can still drive commerce, even without any skills invested.

Edited by Taimerow

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40 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

 

You're not really able to train crafting AND combat skills. You can train skills that will relate to combat in race/class trees but the general trees is the specialization between crafter/harvester/combatant. 

Plus a lot of the crafting systems aren't even in yet so it's pretty early to say. Plus you power thru the first crafting nodes pretty fast which gets you traction pretty fast. Plus we dont have crafting discs, factories, etc for Crafters soooo...yah. not sure what you want, cause it sounds like what you want are already planned systems 

-edit- and in response to having a time sink for getting traction in crafting...how is that any different than having to max crafting levels in WoW or gw2 or literally any other MMO. You want to log in day 1 and make the best stuff...?

Edited by Jjohnsin

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pre-alpha also means we have access to crafting that normally we couldn't get without skills.  I would like a test realm that you need the skills trained to have access to the stuff but I'm not sure if we'd get that soon enough.


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1 hour ago, Jjohnsin said:

You're not really able to train crafting AND combat skills. You can train skills that will relate to combat in race/class trees but the general trees is the specialization between crafter/harvester/combatant. 

Plus a lot of the crafting systems aren't even in yet so it's pretty early to say. Plus you power thru the first crafting nodes pretty fast which gets you traction pretty fast. Plus we dont have crafting discs, factories, etc for Crafters soooo...yah. not sure what you want, cause it sounds like what you want are already planned systems 

-edit- and in response to having a time sink for getting traction in crafting...how is that any different than having to max crafting levels in WoW or gw2 or literally any other MMO. You want to log in day 1 and make the best stuff...?

I don't want to make the best stuff day one but if I am in pre alpha testing I feel 1) The time frame has to be accelerated greatly so that we can test the higher end stuff and 2) premium materials should be in the ETs so we can gather and test without getting ganked. 

I bought this game to be a crafter, no guild is going to log in pre aplha to protect crafters so they can test stuff.

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26 minutes ago, jetah said:

pre-alpha also means we have access to crafting that normally we couldn't get without skills.  I would like a test realm that you need the skills trained to have access to the stuff but I'm not sure if we'd get that soon enough.

I believe 5.4 will already have this with the introduction of crafting stations, intermediate tier and what not.

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2 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I believe 5.4 will already have this with the introduction of crafting stations, intermediate tier and what not.

so only those with training will have said recipes?


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14 minutes ago, jetah said:

so only those with training will have said recipes?

Yeah, people with zero training can only see basic recipes and intermediate tier. Basic recipes can be crafted anywhere on the world  while intermediate tier needs a basic crafting station at least. And intermediate recipes arent that much of a improvement over basic, the DEVs said they are more of a introdution to crafting before we get to the really complicated stuff with wildcards, additives, etc.

Only people who train in the crafting skill tree to a certain degree will see the advanced recipes.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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2 hours ago, Wavemannova said:

Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

Everyone can train in crafting, that is for sure. The key point though is that training in crafting, as all professions, is time consuming. The real question is if non-crafters will "waste" their time on that.

Other than that there is talk about crafting disciplines being introduced later down the line. And this combined with the skilll training can IMO guarantee that every player will think thrice before touching crafting. It is not something anyone will do.

27 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

I don't want to make the best stuff day one but if I am in pre alpha testing I feel 1) The time frame has to be accelerated greatly so that we can test the higher end stuff and 2) premium materials should be in the ETs so we can gather and test without getting ganked. 

I bought this game to be a crafter, no guild is going to log in pre aplha to protect crafters so they can test stuff.

The crafting potions we have are already a huge boosters for crafting. So you actually are already crafting higher end stuff by using them.

About the second point all i can say is that maybe you should craft in your EK? The really good stuff is in the more dangerous places. I mean, they could perhaps do stuff like making EK mats high quality but that would certainly make the world more boring since everyone would just turtle themselves. That would make the already not so big population dwindle even more.

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31 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

I don't want to make the best stuff day one but if I am in pre alpha testing I feel 1) The time frame has to be accelerated greatly so that we can test the higher end stuff and 2) premium materials should be in the ETs so we can gather and test without getting ganked. 

33 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

 I bought this game to be a crafter, no guild is going to log in pre aplha to protect crafters so they can test stuff.

 

They definitely can't put high end materials in EKs...it will kill the testing community which is already low pop as, like Barria said, everyone will turtle in EKs and farm mats. There won't be anything to fight over, there is already very little to fight over. 

Plenty of guilds are protecting harvesters. Mine does, I can't speak for -W- or UDL but I imagine they most likely do as well

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To everyone saying that prime materials in the ET would dry up the live servers, it would only dry the servers up of crafters that aren't interested in PVP.  You people gung ho on PVP would obviously still log on to the test server to PVP if that was your aim.  I'd log in to the live servers to give people things I have made once I was able to gather enough resources without getting ganked every 3 minutes.

I understand that yes, it's a pvp game, but it's alpha for F#$%^#$^% sake. Ganking crafters is just going to make crafters like me stop playing and you're going to see it in the crafting bugs later on. Plenty of harvesting bugs in there now as it is.

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6 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

To everyone saying that prime materials in the ET would dry up the live servers, it would only dry the servers up of crafters that aren't interested in PVP.  You people gung ho on PVP would obviously still log on to the test server to PVP if that was your aim.  I'd log in to the live servers to give people things I have made once I was able to gather enough resources without getting ganked every 3 minutes.

I understand that yes, it's a pvp game, but it's alpha for F#$%^#$^% sake. Ganking crafters is just going to make crafters like me stop playing and you're going to see it in the crafting bugs later on. Plenty of harvesting bugs in there now as it is.

there will be campaigns that offer zero import. it will need crafters in campaigns. Gatherers will need security, crafters will need gatherers. I don't see CF being a solo friendly game unless you're playing during off peak times, say 3am in the USA.

it's alpha for ....

then let the pressure of needing to keep everything pass and enjoy the TEST! afterall it'll be reset. Maybe join a guild that can offer protection while you gather and craft!


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some people love to gather, some love to craft. it makes it apart of the loop.

I'm pretty sure many manufacture of goods buy their raw materials. it's no different in CF.


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13 minutes ago, Wavemannova said:

I actually hate that they seperate the gathering from the crafting. I cannot imagine this will fly in the long run at all. 

So why not make all the races under one skill tree too? How about all classes too? It's sort of dumb just lumping everything related to something else into one skill tree.

Separating these things is important in making choice part of the Crowfall gaming experience. Maybe I want to focus part of my skill training on gathering but not crafting cause I want to use my VIP skill training for craft and combat when I double dip in that professions training category.

Crafting and gathering will be equally important as they feed into each other. It's very hard to imagine how this game wouldn't be that good with half effort designed gathering and crafting systems.


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some people love to gather, some love to craft. it makes it apart of the loop.

You know who likes to gather? Chinese gold farmers. That's what this separation of crafting and gathering is going to bring to the game day 1. Crafting in this depth along the way it was in Star Wars Galaxies brought a competition to who could craft the best weapons and armor. Gathering won't hold people's interest as a main occupation especially when they can't compete with the people farming to make money for the inevitable grey market currency sales..

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2 hours ago, Wavemannova said:

You know who likes to gather? Chinese gold farmers. That's what this separation of crafting and gathering is going to bring to the game day 1. Crafting in this depth along the way it was in Star Wars Galaxies brought a competition to who could craft the best weapons and armor. Gathering won't hold people's interest as a main occupation especially when they can't compete with the people farming to make money for the inevitable grey market currency sales..

I find it hard to see Chinese gold farmers farming effectively in risky campaign worlds where groups will actively be roaming and patrolling. Plus there will be full inventory loot. Plus it's active harvesting so.  Not to mention people do like to harvest, my guild has plenty already. 

 

3 hours ago, Wavemannova said:

To everyone saying that prime materials in the ET would dry up the live servers, it would only dry the servers up of crafters that aren't interested in PVP.  You people gung ho on PVP would obviously still log on to the test server to PVP if that was your aim.  I'd log in to the live servers to give people things I have made once I was able to gather enough resources without getting ganked every 3 minutes.

I understand that yes, it's a pvp game, but it's alpha for F#$%^#$^% sake. Ganking crafters is just going to make crafters like me stop playing and you're going to see it in the crafting bugs later on. Plenty of harvesting bugs in there now as it is.

This actually will kill testing for PvP as well. Because right now the only think to fight over is decent resources to make advanced armor. Put those resources in the EK and people will spend a majority of their time farming in EKs for advanced gear before trying to PvP. And since people are in EKs and the world I deserted, nobody is going to stick around to fight. I highly recommend finding a group of players, even just random people on your faction, to group with and hold mines or something. Or join a guild. Or just log into bloodbath where like 3 people log in 

Edited by Jjohnsin

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All the players coming to CF from SWG for the crafting are definitely going to have a big culture shock with the harvesting system. The CF harvesting is very different in concept. I have concerns about how well resources will flow in the overall game loop so I'm hoping we'll see some iterations and improvements there.

We're still waiting on Phase 2 of the crafting system (recipe changes, stations, blueprints, production) - maybe when more of the systems are in place we'll see a TEST server setup with resources specifically for high end crafting playtesting. Probably too soon for that atm.

 


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