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Wavemannova

Disappointed in the direction

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Its just a question for time investment... In 1 1/2 months you are able to nearly complete every tree for 100%. When guys will play this game 3 years, they will nearly completed everything. I dont see the problem, because you dont have any pressure to do dailies, farming XP for skillleveling. It doesnt matter if you are there or not. Everybody will benefitted just for taking a look into the skilltree every day or every week with VIP... 

I reakky saw much more worse concepts. This benefit tge pro gamer and the casual!

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I really doubt anybody will able to be "solo" + "no combat training" + "effective", in Crowfall, and I don't believe it has ever been ACE's intent to make it possible in the first place.

Some possible combinations that I think might actually work:

Gatherer

solo + combat training/stealth -- could be effective, but you need to have somebody to trade to

Crafting
have a gatherer alt account or friends + sit in an EK or a Beachhead -- could be effective

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On 12/27/2017 at 12:01 AM, Wavemannova said:

Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

 

My point was to the above.

He seems to think crafting won't be a central part of the game, which we know is nonsense.

He also seems to think you should have to sacrifice your pvp ability to be able to craft.  Which as I mentioned, is a terrible idea. If you'd like me to go into why it's a terrible idea, I can do that - but I think it's obvious, at least to my mind.

That is all.

Edited by xaine

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4 hours ago, DeHei said:

Its just a question for time investment... In 1 1/2 months you are able to nearly complete every tree for 100%. When guys will play this game 3 years, they will nearly completed everything. I dont see the problem, because you dont have any pressure to do dailies, farming XP for skillleveling. It doesnt matter if you are there or not. Everybody will benefitted just for taking a look into the skilltree every day or every week with VIP... 

I reakky saw much more worse concepts. This benefit tge pro gamer and the casual!

No... someone actually did the match some time back, and it added up to over 40 years to get every single skill (and we have gotten more nodes since, and more are still coming, so would not surprise me if we talking 100 years for a complete skill tree (assuming no extra skills add post launch)).

and 1½ month is not even gonna be close to having a specialisation done

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On 12/26/2017 at 11:05 PM, Wavemannova said:

You know who likes to gather? Chinese gold farmers. That's what this separation of crafting and gathering is going to bring to the game day 1. Crafting in this depth along the way it was in Star Wars Galaxies brought a competition to who could craft the best weapons and armor. Gathering won't hold people's interest as a main occupation especially when they can't compete with the people farming to make money for the inevitable grey market currency sales..

I'm not a Chinese gold farmer.  However, I like gathering.  Since I like exploring and looking around and finding stuff is probably one of my favorite parts of games since it's... rather peaceful and pretty simple.

That said, I'm finding it hard to think of games where it isn't separated. Admittedly I came from Wildstar (separated), Final Fantasy (separated), etc. I'm not out to make the most money or get the most stuff. I like finding stuff around and then picking it up and such and I'm probably not the only one. Gathering won't hold YOUR attention, and that's fine, but don't speak for all of us out here.

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10 minutes ago, Gumiho said:

That said, I'm finding it hard to think of games where it isn't separated.

This is because it makes sense to separate those two systems. They are two different gaming experiences with different sets of questions and problems that have to be answered and solved. It will never make sense to have the two combined under one mechanic or system.


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On 12/26/2017 at 7:01 PM, Wavemannova said:

Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

 

https://crowfall.com/en/trusted-traders/ 

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On 2017-12-27 at 4:11 AM, Wavemannova said:

I actually hate that they seperate the gathering from the crafting. I cannot imagine this will fly in the long run at all. 

Im atually glad it's a seperate thing, i have no interest in invest skills into any major crafting, but i do like to gather, so ill probably spend the skills into some of that instead. 

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On 12/27/2017 at 2:45 PM, Wavemannova said:

I don't want to make the best stuff day one but if I am in pre alpha testing I feel 1) The time frame has to be accelerated greatly so that we can test the higher end stuff and 2) premium materials should be in the ETs so we can gather and test without getting ganked. 

I bought this game to be a crafter, no guild is going to log in pre aplha to protect crafters so they can test stuff.

I've been saying this as well to no avail. They should put some mid tier stuff in the beach heads at least and maybe put some high tier stuff in the towns.

Here are some other ideas:

-EK bound crafting materials. You can make a orange rarity weapon in a EK super easy... but it can't leave the EK.

-Add a kneeling animation which makes you lootable. A quick "I surrender" signal, will deter many of the gankers as they are typically just trying to start a fight.

-Communal resource dumps in beach heads

-A easier group up system. Chat commands are a bit 2005 and social systems are definitely something that needs to get done moving forwards.

Any of these things would make crafting a lot more testable.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Kastor said:

I've been saying this as well to no avail. They should put some mid tier stuff in the beach heads at least and maybe put some high tier stuff in the towns.

Here are some other ideas:

-EK bound crafting materials. You can make a orange rarity weapon in a EK super easy... but it can't leave the EK.

Rarity isn't really that important right now. Also, this is counter productive to the Live Server testing environment by not giving people a reason to be in the campaign world.

-Add a kneeling animation which makes you lootable. A quick "I surrender" signal, will deter many of the gankers as they are typically just trying to start a fight.

This won't deter as many people as you think. Would you seriously start letting people go if they're giving up resources willingly? You're losing out on valuable experience in defending yourself in pvp by doing that and who's to say the person that's ganking you won't just attack you afterwards anyways.

-Communal resource dumps in beach heads

No. This completely defeats the purpose of continuing to test out things in the live server. Every single time I've seen communal resource dumps in a video game, people come by and empty it on a regular basis for their own benefit. You want resources? Go gather them yourself solo or with a guild or group of friends. Getting your basic resources is part of the play testing experience.

-A easier group up system. Chat commands are a bit 2005 and social systems are definitely something that needs to get done moving forwards.

This doesn't make crafting easier. But it's a huge quality of life revamp change that needs to happen.

Any of these things would make crafting a lot more testable.

We don't even have crafting blueprints yet. That's what will make crafting in general a lot better.

 

 

 


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13 hours ago, entityofsin said:

-Communal resource dumps in beach heads

No. This completely defeats the purpose of continuing to test out things in the live server. Every single time I've seen communal resource dumps in a video game, people come by and empty it on a regular basis for their own benefit. You want resources? Go gather them yourself solo or with a guild or group of friends. Getting your basic resources is part of the play testing experience.

problem will be when 5.4 hits and skills are required to craft. This will hurt gatherers who are probably doing their own crafting. It'll hurt Crafters as they'll have access to Tier 1 resources.

I can see someone opening the stash and emptying it out.


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14 minutes ago, jetah said:

problem will be when 5.4 hits and skills are required to craft. This will hurt gatherers who are probably doing their own crafting. It'll hurt Crafters as they'll have access to Tier 1 resources.

I can see someone opening the stash and emptying it out.

It's going to be like that when the game is released and the situation gets better as more skill training time is accumulated. So it really isn't that big of a problem. I just hope we don't have another repeat of Albion Online cause of it. At least passive skill training is better than some BS active crap like Albion has. I seriously hate the idea of having to use a skill or gather an item 10,000 times to "level up" that action. Same goes for crafting.


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3 hours ago, jetah said:

problem will be when 5.4 hits and skills are required to craft. This will hurt gatherers who are probably doing their own crafting. It'll hurt Crafters as they'll have access to Tier 1 resources.

I can see someone opening the stash and emptying it out.

Ohh, I have an idea, what if the stash only ever shows a subsection of it's contents to each player, Rerolling every hour or so.

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7 hours ago, Kastor said:

Ohh, I have an idea, what if the stash only ever shows a subsection of it's contents to each player, Rerolling every hour or so.

for a test, i say why not. it isn't like the spirit bank will carry over to either launch.

put harvest materials of all tiers so crafters can test, put gear in there so harvesters can test. put gear in there so combat can test. If limits can be in place so 1 person can't empty it then that would be better.

Then I'd suggest creating a test environment that will mimic a real campaign. no chest at the beachhead. only what your team can gather can be used or those you kill. This could last a month and some cheeky rewards could be given to the winners like a forum badge.


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On 12/26/2017 at 5:01 PM, Wavemannova said:

Right now I am very disappointed that I bought in to the game. The videos made it seem that crafters were going to be an integral aspect of the game, but as far as I can see everyone can train crafting, race and combat. If crafters are going to be unique, you have to allow them to take points they would have invested in combat skills and put more of them toward crafting. Also the time sink to get any traction in crafting is ridiculous. I expected more.

 

Just because everyone CAN train everything doesn't mean everyone will.  Even if people have the skills trained, there's no guarantee they're going to use them.  Having the skills is one thing but it's how you choose to spend your time that counts.  Everyone could have every single skill unlocked at launch and who you are in the game still comes down to what you choose to do with your time in the game.  Even at the guild level, the crafters and gatherers are the people who spend their time doing those things for the guild, not the people who simply have the skills trained.  

Take FFXIV as an example, in that game everyone can take every single class/job to cap.  Though despite this there are still known go-to crafters and gatherers in each community.  While people technically can be completely self-sufficient, they're generally few and far between.  The time investment required to reach that point is more than most people want to put in.  In most games, from my experience, crafting and gathering is somewhat of a niche activity even when it's relevant to endgame.  A lot of people just want to fight and they'd rather just pay someone for their gear instead of making it themselves. 

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To OP, honestly its way to early to even make a comment on the outcome or the impact of crafters in the game.  We are in pre pre pre alpha,  this game is no where near completion.  Do not let them fool you.  So just keep watching for a few more years.  I'm sure they will fine tune the crafting.

 

D,

 

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