Plasmafogking

Please, no advantage for $$$

Recommended Posts

No P2W, no pay for convenience, no pay for experience, no pay faster anything, no pay for better anything. Cash shop should only sell cosmetics and cosmetics ONLY (look at Patch of Exile and Guild Wars 2 - while not perfect, they implemented cash show very well).

I think i don't need to point out to games like ARCHEAGE, REVELATIONS ONLINE, BLACK DESERT - games where $$=power, and they died nearly on release.
Please, don't turn this game into one of those. There were game with much bigger fanbase and much bigger crowd than Crowfall, yet they died instantly just because of cashshop/subscription advantages. I don't want to see this game dying instantly.

So, absolute NO for any of these things:
1) VIP for power, faster progression, better options, any advantage against non-VIP users in combat or crafting
2) Cash shop items who offer faster progression, more powerful items, any advantage over players who aren't buying stuff from cash shop

$ should only yield cosmetic items, non-pvp related content, non-crafting related content. Any P2W and P2convenience  will surely kill this game like it killed game giants like ARCHEAGE, REVELATIONS ONLINE, BLACK DESERT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if you noticed what those three games have in common.
It's all %+@!$#?&*^ chinese/korean garbage, which is where the problem is. They're pretty good at nickel and diming their audience with "pay-to-not-grind" features.
Find it funny that you mention Guild Wars 2 as a "good" example, though. It's one of the worst offenders that has somehow weaseled into the western audience, most likely because it's casual enough. I distinctly remember you can buy gems to convert to in game gold, and the economy is all sorts of custarded up because of it.
Not to mention when they put up the indestructible harvest tools on the cash shop, which they were selling pretty early in the life of the game. Hoping ACE doesn't take a page from their book. NCSoft should be at the top of your poorly made sockslist because of their greedy practices that fly just below the radar of the average western consumer, and I wouldn't call their cash shop implemented well at all. Unless by that you mean, good enough to fill their coffers.

Edited by Groovin
lmao filter :^)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Groovin said:

Not sure if you noticed what those three games have in common.
It's all %+@!$#?&*^ chinese/korean garbage, which is where the problem is. They're pretty good at nickel and diming their audience with "pay-to-not-grind" features.
Find it funny that you mention Guild Wars 2 as a "good" example, though. It's one of the worst offenders that has somehow weaseled into the western audience, most likely because it's casual enough. I distinctly remember you can buy gems to convert to in game gold, and the economy is all sorts of custarded up because of it.
Not to mention when they put up the indestructible harvest tools on the cash shop, which they were selling pretty early in the life of the game. Hoping ACE doesn't take a page from their book. NCSoft should be at the top of your poorly made sockslist because of their greedy practices that fly just below the radar of the average western consumer, and I wouldn't call their cash shop implemented well at all. Unless by that you mean, good enough to fill their coffers.

So called "garbage" is still one of the most dominant game releasing force in the industry. China+korea+japan produce the most top class games, and those game fail because western publishers turned those into cash grab fest. NA and UE publishers always turn wonderful game into garbage, so seeing someone blaming regions for publishers turning game into "garbage" looks quite funny.

Also, GW2 is a good example. Yea, you can buy gems for $$, but you also can buy gems through in-game gold. And economy in there works perfectly well. So, i find your comment quite strange, at it offers nothing but basic observations and absurd claims.

And yes, they did put indestructible farming tools, but that in no way changes how you play of give unfair advantage. It only saves up a little bit of inventory space. You can still craft same items and at same rate as those who bought those tools, you don't get boost in pvp or pve for buying those. So, again, your comment is pointless.

So, what is the point of your comment? Are you trying to defend P2W? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

So called "garbage" is still one of the most dominant game releasing force in the industry. China+korea+japan produce the most top class games, and those game fail because western publishers turned those into cash grab fest. NA and UE publishers always turn wonderful game into garbage, so seeing someone blaming regions for publishers turning game into "garbage" looks quite funny.

Top class games? You're having a laugh. You seriously think these eastern publishers can do no wrong? They're the ones who instate these predatory tactics. Western publishers follow suit because they're greedy, the groundwork has been laid out for them.

12 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

Also, GW2 is a good example. Yea, you can buy gems for $$, but you also can buy gems through in-game gold. And economy in there works perfectly well. So, i find your comment quite strange, at it offers nothing but basic observations and absurd claims.

Ah yes, works perfectly with the value of gold directly influenced by how much whales can throw at it. You're putting money into a system from nothing.
 

23 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

And yes, they did put indestructible farming tools, but that in no way changes how you play of give unfair advantage. It only saves up a little bit of inventory space. You can still craft same items and at same rate as those who bought those tools, you don't get boost in pvp or pve for buying those. So, again, your comment is pointless.

You're missing the point, why I mentioned that specifically. Here you are complaining about p2w advantages, while trying to hastily brush under the rug a system that rewards paying real money for an advantage. The person who buys one of these no longer has to waste inventory or bank space holding these or currency on buying more tools, or time spent running to a bank to grab more. Like I was saying before, this has somehow flown under the radar. In fact, it ticks two of the boxes for cash shop items you don't want, that is "more powerful items, any advantage over players who aren't buying stuff from cash shop". I'm not sure why you're trying to defend it. It gives a clear economic advantage.
If this were implemented in CF, there'd be a meltdown on the forums. But that is irrelevant, because we're dealing with something that hasn't happened, and probably won't happen.

32 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

So, what is the point of your comment? Are you trying to defend P2W? 

I'm not sure where you got this idea. In fact I've been quite critical of the practice and publishers that support it.
Please point to where I supported it.

I agree with you in that I don't want to see any p2w aspects. In fact, there have been many topics on this forum discussing where to draw the line, and what construes p2w. It's a heated topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Black Desert Online being a good game ruined by the western publisher? LMAO

Kakao games the western publisher for the most part actually wanted to limit the P2W aspect a LOT (which is the reason it went B2P rather then F2P for instance in the west), the pearl abyss the eastern developer just, don't understand the western mindset and basically forced kakao into a lot of the the P2W things that ended up happening (and from what I understand the eastern version of BDO is EVEN WORSE still in the P2W department

Not sure enough on the relation between developer and publisher on AA and revelation online, so not gonna comment on those 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Plasmafogking said:

Also, GW2 is a good example. Yea, you can buy gems for $$, but you also can buy gems through in-game gold. And economy in there works perfectly well. So, i find your comment quite strange, at it offers nothing but basic observations and absurd claims.

Yaaah the economy definitely does not work perfectly well lol. The economy is controlled by a few whales who buy and sell and control markets on almost every crafting item and high end skin/weapon. I would know...I was one of them. I single handedly controlled almost every market for cooking and Jewelcrafting. So...nice try. Not to mention the exchange rate for gems to gold is much much higher than it is for gold to gems. Where most people only have a couple.hundred gold at most, it's much much easier and more powerful to use irl money. 

 

Plus crowfall will be a buy to play game so they need to incentivise VIP to keep the game alive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Jjohnsin said:

Plus crowfall will be a buy to play game so they need to incentivise VIP to keep the game alive. 

POE is free to play yet they manage to survive without any P2W vip stuff. That's not an excuse.
Also, ARCHEAGE had incentive for player to go for VIP service, and just look how it turned out - graveyard instead of a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

POE is free to play yet they manage to survive without any P2W vip stuff. That's not an excuse.
Also, ARCHEAGE had incentive for player to go for VIP service, and just look how it turned out - graveyard instead of a game.

POE is also a completely different game genre, with a much higher player base as well. 

Not to mention it's been stated multiple times that VIP will over more breadth, not depth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jjohnsin said:

Not to mention it's been stated multiple times that VIP will over more breadth, not depth. 

I can only hope so.
Nevertheless, this mush be repeated as many times as possible: P2W kills games. No matter what kind of game it is, this stuff automatically kills any game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Plasmafogking said:

I can only hope so.
Nevertheless, this mush be repeated as many times as possible: P2W kills games. No matter what kind of game it is, this stuff automatically kills any game.

The developers behind this game have been in the industry long enough to know how games live and die. I wouldn't worry about it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's going to be some p2w elements, I believe it is too late to fix that.  It will make ACE some money, but not as much as if they had stayed the course and kept a higher level of integrity for the actual in game play.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d rather there just be a subscription personally but I think their plan with the VIP is an acceptable compromise 

 

I want the game to keep p2w out but at the same time I want the game to be around a long time if I like it and that requires ACE making money.  Since people hate subscriptions they’re making it optional for a SMALL gain...I honestly don’t see what you have to complain about

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beggars can't be choosers.

If people would go out and get a job so they can afford a $15/month subscription fee, we wouldn't have this predicament.

The only things that kill games faster than P2W is a subscription fee, oh and a company not having any revenue to cover the costs of continued development and support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Plasmafogking said:

I can only hope so.
Nevertheless, this mush be repeated as many times as possible: P2W kills games. No matter what kind of game it is, this stuff automatically kills any game.

I think saying it kills games is a bit of a stretch! Sure, games like GW2, Eve, or even WoW now basically allow anyone with a bit of money out of the game to have as much money in the game as they want, but those games are hardly dead! And, honestly, to a lot of people, they're still super fun games! Plus most of the time you can't buy anything you can't actually work for an earn in-game, even though it'll take you a lot longer than the people who just swipe for it!

It's kind of hard not to have an MMORPG nowadays that *doesn't* offer some 'official' way to funnel / convert USD into Ingame currency, it's almost the standard for the industry! Is it a sad state of affairs that being stuck in a late-stage capitalist hellscape in the making means that it's nearly impossible to actually find a game where it's not the case? Sure. But it's kind of already a lost battle, in my opinion!

Sure, if everyone stopped buying and playing games with those types of systems, developers / publishers / etc would stop being able to include that sort of thing in their games, but let's be honest that aint gonna happen!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, DocHollidaze said:

Beggars can't be choosers.

If people would go out and get a job so they can afford a $15/month subscription fee, we wouldn't have this predicament.

The only things that kill games faster than P2W is a subscription fee, oh and a company not having any revenue to cover the costs of continued development and support.

I would support Crowfall having a monthly sub. Cuts out a lot of the whining but the only thing I don't like about that is how much limited time I have now for video games. Makes the $15 seem expensive if I am not playing a lot each day.

Luckily Crowfall isn't going to have any P2W. Just some whiny people who think there is. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

let me point out one thing:

VIP is tradeable!

People can buy gear, castles, resources or whatever else someone is willing to trade for VIP!

Gear, castles, resources or whatever else you buy can be looted/stolen/etc when you die! and everyone will die!
OK, i'm not quite sure how castles will work but point remains that a whole guild/faction could turn on you because you purchased it via VIP. or we have some merc groups that actively go after people who VIP to victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2017 at 2:42 PM, DocHollidaze said:

Beggars can't be choosers.

If people would go out and get a job so they can afford a $15/month subscription fee, we wouldn't have this predicament.

The only things that kill games faster than P2W is a subscription fee, oh and a company not having any revenue to cover the costs of continued development and support.

So... much.. this. Look at the cost to value for entertainment derived. I could never understand the market in this respect. Entitlement society I guess? If one delivers a good product it will succeed. If one fails to deliver a good product to market, it will not succeed, at least not for a sustained amount of time.

If I play this game for 15 hours a month, i have derived enjoyment for the grand total of 1 USD an hour....yet there are gamers that would easily triple that amount of playtime and balk at a 15 dollar sub? I guess Game Studios should donate millions as an altruistic endeavor to bring entertainment to the masses free of charge?

 Regardless, ACE has chosen their business model,  I hope it is successful, I have six years of VIP. I think it will be.

Edited by armegeddon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well people are so quick to jump up in protest to things that even remotely smell or look like P2W these days. Cash shops and loot crates have really done a number on this kind of stuff even if they try and emulate the same effect as something that Path of Exile has delivered in terms of just cosmetics. They still get clipped with cynicism for charging money for the stuff in the first place.

There is nothing P2W about Crowfall. At some point a product needs to move from being in the red, to black, to finally green to become profitable. Not that hard of a concept to understand. Opt-in subscription models are pretty cool about that. I just hope ACE doesn't have priority log-in for VIP players. That would be incredibly stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2017 at 1:27 AM, Plasmafogking said:

No P2W, no pay for convenience, no pay for experience, no pay faster anything, no pay for better anything. Cash shop should only sell cosmetics and cosmetics ONLY

Any P2W and P2convenience  will surely kill this game like it killed game giants like ARCHEAGE, REVELATIONS ONLINE, BLACK DESERT.

P2W kills games. No matter what kind of game it is, this stuff automatically kills any game.

While I agree for the most part that games focused on players competing should limit or entirely avoid cash impacting gameplay, I disagree that going down the Pay for ..... route "kills" them.

How many quality MMOs have actually shut down due to the pay model specifically?

You are a bit late to be hoping ACE will avoid this, especially considering they said that VIP would be for trade from the start. VIP benefits, tomes, approved 3rd party sellers, cash shop goods for trade, etc all show plainly (to me) that ACE sees profit in such things and intends to use them for their benefit.

Regardless of how you see other games with "P2W" models, they likely still have enough players logging in, probably much more than CF will have at its peak. Some people enjoy dumping cash into virtual goods/power to cheese their way while others don't seem to care enough to quit. Companies sit back and win.

I'd look to Camelot Unchained and possibly Ashes of Creation as they so far seem much more against this model than Crowfall. Of course they seem further away as well.

Unfortunately, unless a company/game takes a hard stand from the start and shows zero sign of cash for advantage, it is bound to happen in some form. ACE didn't do that and isn't going to start now.

On 12/27/2017 at 6:47 PM, entityofsin said:

Luckily Crowfall isn't going to have any P2W.

Your definition of P2W might make your statement true, but CF will clearly allow cash to impact gameplay through multiple means. Being able to buy power through stats boosts or advantage with resources/equipment influences outcomes. One might not be able to literally "pay to win" but paying to be 5, 10, 100 steps ahead can make a huge difference to the point where victory is all but guaranteed after a point.

IMO, saying the system will "kill the game" is as off as saying it won't be influenced at all by cash. Truth is in the middle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.