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Templars need some love...3rd tray maybe..

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First off...I absolutely love the Templar concept!  They have great melee abilities and decent support to make it a good group/siege type class.  Sieges alone will probably keep Templar viable.... but if my speculation is correct, most pvp will be smaller groups with open field skirmishes.  This is where templars become just about useless.... unless other classes get changed... or some minor tweaks are made to assist templars (and melee in general).  One of the biggest head hurters is mobility/range limitations.  You can overcome this a bit, by not being human and selecting anything else, but then you lose the flagship ability right click parry to gain movement.  So... are we really stuck with the lumbering boulder who gets auto attacked to death by any ranged class, or do we gain mobility and get dominated by melee who get both movement/ranged and defensive skills (e.g. shield wielding Knight with chains and charge, shield wielding clerics with spirithammers, etc)

 

There are 3 suggestions to fix this:

1 command for your race ability (roll, dash etc) and one command for your class ability.  Just makes sense to me that a melee type with the most strength who desires to roll, doesn’t forget he can also parry...think right click/alt right click

option 2:

templars combat bar be broken apart and have 3 trays like many other classes.  A defensive/support tray and an offensive tray.  Other classes can chose betweeen types of offense be it range or melee, while templars are restricted.  

 

3rd:

everbody only gets 2 trays, survival and combat.  Many classes can load out situationally but other classes are very restricted.  Just like how templars are forced to sacrifice to be either defensive or more offensive, other classes shouldn’t get EVERYTHING (insert Willy Wonka pun here).

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Oh... and I forgot how unfriendly Censure is... with the huge cone/forgiveness ranged classes get with targeting, it would be nice to see some attention go towards this.  I can't state how many times my body has bounced off the player.... but Censure goes off well after I bounce off them..slide past and land on the ground.  Imagine if arrows only worked at max ranger and nothing inbetween.... you would hemorage $$$ as subscriptions went down.  I view these as similar mechanics... 

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Censure is just a result of server lag and poor performance. 

In terms of Templar, they are easily the best tank right now in the game. Their kit is incredibly stacked already, and they don't need anything else. Giving them mobility without taking anything away is going to make what is already happening worse, every class getting everything. Their open field fight is great, especially with coordinated groups. Divine light is an insane area control ability, holy warrior provides plenty of defense to at least get to a healer, group heals from devotion can get up to like 800 a parry under right circumstances. They definitely don't need a 3rd tray AT ALL. 

You can't just give a class everything. It needs weaknesses and ways for other classes to exploit it. Templar is an incredible strong and solid base class as is 

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On 12/31/2017 at 12:42 AM, Jjohnsin said:

Censure is just a result of server lag and poor performance. 

In terms of Templar, they are easily the best tank right now in the game. Their kit is incredibly stacked already, and they don't need anything else. Giving them mobility without taking anything away is going to make what is already happening worse, every class getting everything. Their open field fight is great, especially with coordinated groups. Divine light is an insane area control ability, holy warrior provides plenty of defense to at least get to a healer, group heals from devotion can get up to like 800 a parry under right circumstances. They definitely don't need a 3rd tray AT ALL. 

You can't just give a class everything. It needs weaknesses and ways for other classes to exploit it. Templar is an incredible strong and solid base class as is 

I agree templars are the best tanks right now, and really hope that’s all that’s wrong with censure... too bad arrows don’t lag miss too.  Thing is... not much tanking in pvp when 90% of the pvp player base is wood elf ranger or naetheri or guine simply because in pvp movement is just as defensive as tankyness.   I tried out the naetheri Templar, like it much more than human, but gaining the movement ability forces you to lose the pary and the follow up stun... which leaves enemies open to move out of all the pbaoe abilities.  Maybe when the game evolves more around holding the line in a castle door it will be more fun... till then I’ll hang out on the freshly created wood elf ranger and spam suppress/left click cick/Right click click to win.

 

p.s.  Wood elf rangers are cancer.... cure cancer please

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Posted (edited)

Murder deer will get you an additional charge on your power bar and reserve your parry for RMB. I feel ranged is the real issue here, high dmg, CC and mobility makes playing melee a hard choice and feels under powered af.

Edited by dreaden

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, dreaden said:

Murder deer will get you an additional charge on your power bar and reserve your parry for RMB. I feel ranged is the real issue here, high dmg, CC and mobility makes playing melee a hard choice and feels under powered af.

2-3 pips for the racial charge ...pretty unsustainable on pip class that has to generate them in melee and will often be left behind in the dust with 0-1 pips ;p

[vs a class with passive generation]

Edited by Tinnis

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2 hours ago, Xpade said:

I agree templars are the best tanks right now, and really hope that’s all that’s wrong with censure... too bad arrows don’t lag miss too.  Thing is... not much tanking in pvp when 90% of the pvp player base is wood elf ranger or naetheri or guine simply because in pvp movement is just as defensive as tankyness.   I tried out the naetheri Templar, like it much more than human, but gaining the movement ability forces you to lose the pary and the follow up stun... which leaves enemies open to move out of all the pbaoe abilities.  Maybe when the game evolves more around holding the line in a castle door it will be more fun... till then I’ll hang out on the freshly created wood elf ranger and spam suppress/left click cick/Right click click to win.

 

p.s.  Wood elf rangers are cancer.... cure cancer please

I'll say it here and say it over and over moving forward. Knee-jerk changes to current meta are never a good idea. Yah the wood-elf ranger is pretty cancer but it won't be around forever...it's important to look at class mechanics as just the mechanics they are, and not how they fir or don't fit into current balance. 

Part of the game, I wish it was much much larger than it is, is making the choice between for example: taking a movement ability or your class parry. And it's important that you are forced to make those choices because it opens up interesting inter-play between allies and counter-play between enemies. 

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1 hour ago, Tinnis said:

2-3 pips for the racial charge ...pretty unsustainable on pip class that has to generate them in melee and will often be left behind in the dust with 0-1 pips ;p

[vs a class with passive generation]

Another example of resource costs being non-standardized. FeelsElkenMan

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Jjohnsin said:

I'll say it here and say it over and over moving forward. Knee-jerk changes to current meta are never a good idea. Yah the wood-elf ranger is pretty cancer but it won't be around forever...it's important to look at class mechanics as just the mechanics they are, and not how they fir or don't fit into current balance. 

Part of the game, I wish it was much much larger than it is, is making the choice between for example: taking a movement ability or your class parry. And it's important that you are forced to make those choices because it opens up interesting inter-play between allies and counter-play between enemies. 

Completely agree on the knee jerk reactions.  I know there’s a long way to go and minor tweaks to be made.  Just trying to highlight the overall disparity between certain combinations.  I also see the comment about the game not being solo played.... true and not true at the same time.  It’s a game that will have small and large scale pvp.  Some will choose to Zerg 100+ and raid, others will prefer small scale pvp.

 

my only objective is to give all styles a chance.  In regards to pip generation, maybe gaining pips for taking damage... since tanks do that right?  Till something gets minorly tweaked.....you see wood elf army below...

Right now we solo and 5man pvp the most and our current group looks like 3 wood elf rangers, 1 wood elf Druid on full heals and another wood elf running full bard spec.  It’s pretty cancer and about 1 round of pvp later, the battle field gets pretty quiet cuz it’s almost a no compete situation.  We have also tried out 3 duelist 1 guine cleric and 1 guine night.... equally wonderful as wood elf groups...I call it Tremors 4 movie script ...

 

Edited by Xpade

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14 hours ago, dreaden said:

Murder deer will get you an additional charge on your power bar and reserve your parry for RMB. I feel ranged is the real issue here, high dmg, CC and mobility makes playing melee a hard choice and feels under powered af.

I had the same thought until I saw it costs 2 pips and has a pretty long cooldown. 

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Rather than limiting the Templar parry / counterattack to melee attacks only (which is works on bleeds/ground targets right now anyways) I think it should work against all attacks again included ranged but put a 5 second cooldown on the counterattack. 

In big fights the counterattack spam is insane on a Templar. In open field engagements against mobile ranged damaged dealers Templar's are gimped. Need to even these two scenarios out a bit. 

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7 hours ago, blazzen said:

Rather than limiting the Templar parry / counterattack to melee attacks only (which is works on bleeds/ground targets right now anyways) I think it should work against all attacks again included ranged but put a 5 second cooldown on the counterattack. 

In big fights the counterattack spam is insane on a Templar. In open field engagements against mobile ranged damaged dealers Templar's are gimped. Need to even these two scenarios out a bit. 

THIS
Bring back the old Templar Parry pip gen and counter but give the Counter a 5 second CD absolutely.
 

 

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8 hours ago, blazzen said:

Rather than limiting the Templar parry / counterattack to melee attacks only (which is works on bleeds/ground targets right now anyways) I think it should work against all attacks again included ranged but put a 5 second cooldown on the counterattack. 

In big fights the counterattack spam is insane on a Templar. In open field engagements against mobile ranged damaged dealers Templar's are gimped. Need to even these two scenarios out a bit. 

Parrying an arrow sounds nice...how to make it viable .... gain pip when parry successful?

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Just now, Xpade said:

Parrying an arrow sounds nice...how to make it viable .... gain pip when parry successful?

That's how it used to be before it was changed a few patches ago. 

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No wonder... original balance had it in play, took it away and it left a huge gap.  Like how @Jjohnsin at mentioned not to knee jerk.  Just a possible meet in the middle process... how does it sound that to use right click on any class would cost resources be it pip or EN.  Prevents you from being able to hold down parry indefinitely or blink spam non stop... just rough ideas, it’s always better to offer course of action (COA) vice just complain.  Another COA is have parry function like movement and it’s just on a timer.  You can right click/hold for up to Xseconds and you can charge up to 2 right clicks just like a movement.  Prevents from indefinite parry but allows you to have options.

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I wouldn't be opposed to having parry act similar to a D.Va shield in Overwatch. Get a sort of energy bar devoted to parry that gets used when parrying and recharges at some rate while not parrying. 

Not opposed to the concept of gaining a pip when you parry a ranged attack either. Would definitely help with pip starvation in ranged poke battles and could open up interesting healing builds with Divine Light being kept up by parrying ranged attacks.

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@Jjohnsin  alright, now we’re getting somewhere :D!  I also like the idea of parry being on a different resource than pip.  I’m not in game right now, but I want to compare it to ranger ranged resource use compared to melee use.  The way/rate it’s done is completely different from what I recall.  Maybe compare these and see what a balanced/fair comparison would look like.  The previous method allowing parry to regenerate or generate the pip/resource is nice too.  Maybe instead of removing that mechanic completely, it needed tweaked instead.  

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Templars are hands down the best area-denial tanks in the game. They really don't need any love, rather, they need to put the Riposte on a short cool down and fix the bug where the Templar get's locked in parry mode. 

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1 minute ago, soulein said:

Templars are hands down the best area-denial tanks in the game. They really don't need any love, rather, they need to put the Riposte on a short cool down and fix the bug where the Templar get's locked in parry mode. 

Or that they can parry while in another animation and not cancel the previous cast while parrying and not indicating to their opponent that they are parrying.

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