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ClockworkOrange

Crowfall should feel like Overwatch

Should Crowfall feel like Overwatch?  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. If you want to be a compititve PVP game, you should follow suit with those who have done so succesfully.

    • Overwatch should be the feel of the game
      6
    • I like moving slow and not having to aim (current implementation)
      4
    • I dislike both above choices.
      29


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Crowfall is just boring. I tried to play again this weekend and everything feels lackluster about the game currently. I feel slower than I ever have before and after running 30 feet across the map I want to just log out. I use skills in my kit only to realize I don't like the skills in my kit.

 

Then I look at a game like Overwatch. A game I would be quick to write off as not having enough to the characters with highly limited skill sets. Then you take a closer look at what they have done right. Every skill is meaningful, every class is diverse, movement feels good and physics effects bring it all to life. Crowfall gameplay is failing to deliver the Crowfall hype we all experienced. Are you actually happy with Crowfall currently?

Edited by ClockworkOrange

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Overwatch and Crowfall are two different types of games. Overwatch is an arena FPS type game. Crowfall is an open world MMORPG. 

That said, the aiming needs to be tightened up on Crowfall. You might find the thread above interesting. 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

YouTube - Twitch - Website

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Raycasts need tightening up, that's about it... Asides from that I think the pace of combat is (usually) fine - don't mistake "competitive" and "hardcore" with "high [twitch] skill-cap".

 

What you say about interesting and unique skills and all that is fair though.

Edited by Xarrayne

:^)

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Overwatch? That poorly made socksty boring game for pre-teen kids and brain-dead old perverts who are trying to seduce said kids? Game where any kind of skills, strategy, thoughts and being good at what you do is not required as long as you pick OP nonsense characters? Game who managed to be even worse than the worst online game ever called counter-strike? No thanks. Anything but that.

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29 minutes ago, moneda said:

After all the hoopla we've gone through since the Kickstarter about how Crowfall seems "more MOBA than MMO" you want it to veer in the direction of an FPS? Oh gods. :lol:

I thought we were always going in more the direction of FPS. Why remove Tab Targetting? I think Crowfall is still trying to answer their own question. Because they haven't replaced tab targeting with anything good.

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44 minutes ago, Xarrayne said:

Raycasts need tightening up, that's about it... Asides from that I think the pace of combat is (usually) fine - don't mistake "competitive" and "hardcore" with "high [twitch] skill-cap".

 

What you say about interesting and unique skills and all that is fair though.

Overwatch isn't even high (twitch) skill cap. There are classes that you never have to learn how to aim to play and have an auto assist component built into them. Overwatch was a skillful pvp game marketed for everyone (Blizzard likes to make money) because everyone else had decided to ignore the TF2 hype for years. Crowfall is like playing pong on easy mode in comparison.

I just thought when you market yourself as a competitive PVP game, you would add components in (like skillful play) that are required in that genre. Crowfall has marketed itself as a competitive throne war simulator (sounds like PVP to me) that requires a similar skill level as Runescape.

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55 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Overwatch and Crowfall are two different types of games. Overwatch is an arena FPS type game. Crowfall is an open world MMORPG. 

That said, the aiming needs to be tightened up on Crowfall. You might find the thread above interesting. 

I understand arena and open world are conflicting game styles. FPS and MMORPG are not. MMORPGs have all but died and we find their remainders in survivals who also use FPS type mechanics. The next generation of MMORPGs will be FPS/3rd Person shooters. FPS is more than a genre, it is a mechanic that can be encountered across multiple genres.

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5 minutes ago, ClockworkOrange said:

I understand arena and open world are conflicting game styles. FPS and MMORPG are not. MMORPGs have all but died and we find their remainders in survivals who also use FPS type mechanics. The next generation of MMORPGs will be FPS/3rd Person shooters. FPS is more than a genre, it is a mechanic that can be encountered across multiple genres.

I loved Darkfall combat which was a MMORPG with FPS aiming but ACE has stated they didn't set out to make such a twitch based game. I think the best we can hope for on this front is tightening up the current aiming (which is what the poll/thread I made was about). 

 


Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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3 hours ago, blazzen said:

I loved Darkfall combat which was a MMORPG with FPS aiming but ACE has stated they didn't set out to make such a twitch based game. I think the best we can hope for on this front is tightening up the current aiming (which is what the poll/thread I made was about). 

 

I know we will never get to Darkfall level, the closer the come the better in my opinion. Crowfall combat is so stale currently it is time to mix things up. I just think there is a high demand for FPS (twitch based games) and it could be Crowfall's time to pivot as their current implementation of combat leaves much to be desired.

I agree with your poll and already added to the votes there. I just want more....

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Overwatch - You respawn close to the fight and can reengage.  


Crowfall ATM You respawn “closer” to the fight than I expect u will in a campaign.  If you have 10 sec of combat and 30 min of travel time I think you’ll get disgruntled about it.

 

Till the map hits the actual size and the respawn mechanics are in place in their finale iteration as well as TTK, then personally I think that changing anything is rather pointless.

 

As for it being stale.... I utterly disagree with you.  Combat is as much about knowing what you can do, vs what others are capable of.  That takes research and testing.  I like that.

 

What I dont like is the search for instant gratification and being able to global anyone.


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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I don’t mind the slower pace of combat and I find it more fitting for a large scale pvp game. A low TTK doesn’t make sense here. Now if you’re talking about the “fluidity” I agree. Combat does feel clunky and awkward. It’s still very rough around the edges and something that needs further iteration. My biggest issue besides that is the lack of inspiration when it comes to the actual ability kits of the classes and even the disciplines. Aiming in general needs to be reviewed and the devs need to be clear and concise on this. If they don’t want aiming to be a big component of what “skill” is in combat they need to say that.

 

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10 hours ago, headlight said:

Year 3 of claiming Pre-alpha on a game that was supposed to hard launch a year ago? ha.

It took eso 6 years or so before release. That’s with a significant larger budget and team. Wildstar was supposedly in the oven for even longer. Who knows how long those games were in “pre-alpha” a state that we’d normally never see. If we were to believe crowfall was/is going to be a”true” mmorpg I don’t think it’s hard to believe how long the game is been in development. It was silly for ace to set any kind of deadline.

Edited by Helix

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I actually agree that the "Overwatch" feel would be nice, but more specifically I think that the statement: "Crowfall should feel like Overwatch" would be more clarified if we compare Crowfall to a survival shooter game: PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds (PUBG). Yes, Crowfall is an mmo, but the mmo-aspect falls into crafting and socializing. Crowfall's campaigns in itself is a survival game, and PUBG takes the survival part (remember Hungerdome?) and puts that with the speedy pacing of a modern shooter (imagine CSGO/Overwatch). When you're on the battlefield/campaign the game should feel life-threatening and truly like you're risking everything you own, I think that PUBG's speedy pacing is what makes the game represent that. The fact that you could die at any moment in mere seconds without knowing the whereabouts of your attacker is what keeps the player on guard at all times, and when the player does die the feel that you were helpless and weak is what motivates the player to try again, but this time improving their ability. I don't think Crowfall's problem is that combat is awkward. Crowfall's problem is that is does not feel like a survival, coordinate together to overcome, high risk and high reward survival game. The combat feels awkward because the devs are meshing the "long duration" combat of a traditional MMORPG to that of a "life-threatening" survival game. 

My thoughts are that it is ok for fights in survival games to be long, but they should preserve the feeling "I could die at any moment." My ideas of what could be done, is to lower the health to low values (would make players value their health more), and increase cooldowns and resource costs for defense/utility abilities so that players would need to play more carefully with those abilities, thinking constantly of how to optimize their decisions to prolong the "lifespan" their character who could die in one more move. This would make: Druid's and Confessors value their dash abilities more rather than spamming them mindlessly or whenever they're off Cooldown; it will make knight's think more carefully about their shield ability: My shield is on a long Cooldown, should I wait to block their high damage skill? He is holding onto that high-damage ability awfully long, should I use it now? ; Druid's are also forced to think more about where to place their bubbles if mana costs and Cooldowns are high, versus, where normally they would stack them all in a general area where there is a battle going on. Imagine if the healing bubble has a time limit, that would cause druid players to think about ally movement, speed, location, and dash/teleportation/speed buff ability cooldowns. Lowering health while increasing risk of using an ability would allow for shorter fights, but long fights are also possible if fighting players/teams are skilled enough at managing their abilities. Crowfall would essentially have the survival feeling of PUBG, but more, because Crowfall allow for more counterplay than PUBG does because of Crowfall's nature of having 6+abilities and powers to work with. Of course these are purely theories, this is my opinion, and honestly I have never designed a game before, so I could be horribly wrong.

Edited by jshiu999

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18 hours ago, Helix said:

I don’t mind the slower pace of combat and I find it more fitting for a large scale pvp game. A low TTK doesn’t make sense here. Now if you’re talking about the “fluidity” I agree. Combat does feel clunky and awkward. It’s still very rough around the edges and something that needs further iteration. My biggest issue besides that is the lack of inspiration when it comes to the actual ability kits of the classes and even the disciplines. Aiming in general needs to be reviewed and the devs need to be clear and concise on this. If they don’t want aiming to be a big component of what “skill” is in combat they need to say that.

 

Yeah I realize I greatly failed to define what I liked about Overwatch and that is on me. I completely agree the low TTK doesn't make sense here and that is not something I believe Crowfall should mirror. The Fluidity is the biggest thing I want copied from Overwatch and the class design. The classes in Crowfall have too much overlap and don't feel very unique. This has been brought up in many threads with many classes having overlap of CC, Heals, AOE, and the other basic essentials. It is ok to hate on Overwatch all you want, but movement feels good and I think that is hard to deny. Your character moves the way you want it to move, and abilities chain well into one another. Abilities react well to each other and you never this odd clunky feeling combat where the ability just doesn't execute the way you thought it should have.

I think Aiming should be an important aspect and I agree with you that the devs are failing to really answer what their goal is for aiming and tend to dodge that question. It seems they feel like if they take any stance they are alienating some of their player base, which is probably true. But in the end, they will have made a stance and those who are completely turned off by it, will still be completely turned off by it. I assumed that since we were getting rid of tab targetting, that it meant there would be skill based aiming. Maybe that is my fault for assuming, but it seems like a logical conclusion to me.

I hoped for abilities that had physics, for arrows that dropped over time, for arrows that were not raycasts. I had hoped for a higher skill ceiling.

I had hoped for a game that would break the mold. Instead we got a theme park MMORPG without the shiny lights and rides. We just have bland combat in an empty sandbox.

To say I had high hopes for this game is an understatement. This is the only game I have followed closely in years, basically ever. My disappointment is on me and hype for what I thought this project could be in my own mind. Just sharing my two cents.

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2 hours ago, miraluna said:

Overwatch, really?  Can I pick Dark Souls for good combat instead? :D

I love Dark Souls, but if you can't figure out why Dark Souls PVP would be complete poorly made socks in an MMO before you finished writing that sentence, I can't help you.

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