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ClockworkOrange

Crowfall should feel like Overwatch

Should Crowfall feel like Overwatch?  

37 members have voted

  1. 1. If you want to be a compititve PVP game, you should follow suit with those who have done so succesfully.

    • Overwatch should be the feel of the game
      6
    • I like moving slow and not having to aim (current implementation)
      4
    • I dislike both above choices.
      29


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On 1/2/2018 at 11:17 AM, ClockworkOrange said:

Crowfall is just boring. I tried to play again this weekend and everything feels lackluster about the game currently. I feel slower than I ever have before and after running 30 feet across the map I want to just log out. I use skills in my kit only to realize I don't like the skills in my kit.

 

Then I look at a game like Overwatch. A game I would be quick to write off as not having enough to the characters with highly limited skill sets. Then you take a closer look at what they have done right. Every skill is meaningful, every class is diverse, movement feels good and physics effects bring it all to life. Crowfall gameplay is failing to deliver the Crowfall hype we all experienced. Are you actually happy with Crowfall currently?

I'm getting really tired of writing this but

It's not even in alpha testing. We're in pre-alpha. We're pre-tech-testing-testing. We're not even in the class-balance point. We're not even in the skill-whittling point. We're in the "HOW DOES HITTING A TREE WORK?!" point, and that's being generous. Please don't compare a fully released, massively funded, landmark game with a behind-the-scenes testing of an indie MMO.

 

The issue here is you "Tried to play" the "game".
We're testing. We're not playing. You're testing gameplay. This is not the same as... playing gameplay. This is not yet a game, it's the scaffolding of one.

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Nah--I don't think I'd like CF to "feel" like Overwatch, and I certainly don't want any more "survival" added to the mix (though that's another discussion).  Regardless, I don't think you'll see major combat changes at this point.  However, I know combat will improve, but that will be along the path CF has already established (and I am good with that).  It is likely that anyone who is thinking combat either is A. in pre-alpha and it's not to their taste now but in a few months somehow it is going to be completely like *insert favorite game here* or B. going to scrapped and move in a completely different direction, are simply not being realistic.  However, the same could be said of any tester that thinks combat will stay exactly how it is now and not improve.    


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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No it doesn't need to feel like Overwatch. If I want to play Overwatch, I'll go install it and play it.

Wanna know what everyone wants Crowfall to feel like? Let's all think about this for a second. Oh yeah, actually feel like Crowfall.

Emulating the experience of another game that's successful doesn't give people a reason to play Crowfall. It makes them have this impression that the game is just a mix-match of a bunch of crap from other games even if it does it well. It's why MOBAs are all boring. They all have very similar core mechanics to one another, the characters you can play are roughly all fill in similar play styles, and there seems to only be a few differences between each of those games (HOTS, LoL, and DOTA2 being the biggest 3 and only 3 relevant ones).

I hate it when games try and copy the gameplay feel of another game. It only ever seems to work when the older game is no longer relevant in the market and the players that left went to spend their time enjoying other games.

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On 1/2/2018 at 2:46 PM, moneda said:

After all the hoopla we've gone through since the Kickstarter about how Crowfall seems "more MOBA than MMO" you want it to veer in the direction of an FPS? Oh gods. :lol:

This.  I remember when SWG wanted to bring in more people.  They decided to go with a MMO/FPS hybrid system because of posts like this one.  It was a horrid mess and pretty much the beginning of the end for the game.

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2 hours ago, EcrirTwyLar said:

This.  I remember when SWG wanted to bring in more people.  They decided to go with a MMO/FPS hybrid system because of posts like this one.  It was a horrid mess and pretty much the beginning of the end for the game.

This kind of aiming system isn't why the games fail that use it. It's poor game management and probably a combination of other things. It is never just one thing that does a game in.

Look at stuff like ESO, TERA, and Fallen Earth (Fallen Earth being an actual MMOFPS game too) for examples of this kind of aiming system. It isn't what dropped the player population or placed them into irrelevancy. It was poor game management and probably a combination of other things like bad market timing, introducing an old game to new markets that have fresh products emerging in it that are better, or possibly just not fun enough compared to alternative games.

A lot of the responsibility of whether a product is going to be successful or not rests on the company making it. ACE knows the pitfalls and if they do something we really don't like, then we'll let em know and they should listen and change it. They know without us backers this game is screwed to even have a shot at getting far into today's market.

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1 minute ago, entityofsin said:

This kind of aiming system isn't why the games fail that use it. It's poor game management and probably a combination of other things. It is never just one thing that does a game in.

Look at stuff like ESO, TERA, and Fallen Earth (Fallen Earth being an actual MMOFPS game too) for examples of this kind of aiming system. It isn't what dropped the player population or placed them into irrelevancy. It was poor game management and probably a combination of other things like bad market timing, introducing an old game to new markets that have fresh products emerging in it that are better, or possibly just not fun enough compared to alternative games.

A lot of the responsibility of whether a product is going to be successful or not rests on the company making it. ACE knows the pitfalls and if they do something we really don't like, then we'll let em know and they should listen and change it. They know without us backers this game is screwed to even have a shot at getting far into today's market.

My point wasn't that the style of aiming is bad.  My point is that changing the style of game play often has repercussions from the community who joined a game based on the style of game play it used.

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Just now, EcrirTwyLar said:

My point wasn't that the style of aiming is bad.  My point is that changing the style of game play often has repercussions from the community who joined a game based on the style of game play it used.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Kind of hard to when there's a game that went through with this and I think the company that made it closed up shop. The game is Firefly.

Crowfall hasn't flip flopped on design approaches. It's been pretty spot on with how the developers want the game to be made. This game won't ever feel like a MOBA or FPS game anyways so I don't really get why people have been comparing it to them. It's apples and oranges.

But I do get what you're saying.

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1 hour ago, entityofsin said:

This game won't ever feel like a MOBA or FPS game anyways so I don't really get why people have been comparing it to them. It's apples and oranges.

I really don't understand why people are saying there are no similarities to a FPS. Will you say there are similarities to a Third Person Shooter? I mean there is reticle aiming with raycast spells.

Am I missing something here? Crowfall is a god damn third person shooter. Just cause its a bad one, doesn't mean it isn't one. FPS/Third Person Shooters are in the same category for me and differences are only point of perspective.

To act like making the game more of a shooter is a complete redesign is just crazy to me.

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1 hour ago, ClockworkOrange said:

I really don't understand why people are saying there are no similarities to a FPS. Will you say there are similarities to a Third Person Shooter? I mean there is reticle aiming with raycast spells.

Am I missing something here? Crowfall is a god damn third person shooter. Just cause its a bad one, doesn't mean it isn't one. FPS/Third Person Shooters are in the same category for me and differences are only point of perspective.

To act like making the game more of a shooter is a complete redesign is just crazy to me.

I think it was tblair that said that he mourns the loss of telegraphs, and that the reticle gives people false impressions about what combat is really like. He also likened the current state of combat to something more like wildstar and less like a traditional FPS. When they showed the telegraphs originally people got all up in arms because, "oh my god, colors!". Although I personally like the reticle for aiming and help "centering" your character, if it's not an accurate display of how long or wide ability DMs truly are, perhaps they should go back to self-only telegraphs.

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5 minutes ago, Helix said:

Although I personally like the reticle for aiming and help "centering" your character, if it's not an accurate display of how long or wide ability DMs truly are, perhaps they should go back to self-only telegraphs.

An option to toggle them on/off certainly couldn't hurt. 

Still think they're too wide though on things like 60m bow shots. 

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56 minutes ago, Jah said:

The only way to make Crowfall feel like Overwatch would be to completely remake it as an arena game with small maps and 2 teams of 6 players.

And then we can delete all the classes and game code. I would like to see them add Junkrat and Mercy first. Hopefully they can successfully reverse engineer the Blizzard code.

...lets be more literal.

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2 minutes ago, ClockworkOrange said:

And then we can delete all the classes and game code. I would like to see them add Junkrat and Mercy first. Hopefully they can successfully reverse engineer the Blizzard code.

...lets be more literal.

Yea, I can see where my comment could be seen as ridiculously literal, but there is truth to it.

You can't get the same kind of twitchy shooter performance in an MMORPG as you can in a 6 v 6 on a small map.

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1 hour ago, Helix said:

I think it was tblair that said that he mourns the loss of telegraphs, and that the reticle gives people false impressions about what combat is really like. He also likened the current state of combat to something more like wildstar and less like a traditional FPS. When they showed the telegraphs originally people got all up in arms because, "oh my god, colors!". Although I personally like the reticle for aiming and help "centering" your character, if it's not an accurate display of how long or wide ability DMs truly are, perhaps they should go back to self-only telegraphs.

Thanks for clarifying and this makes sense. I wasn't one who got into Wildstar and that is because the theme park quest like nature of the game prevented me from getting to the PVP portion which I might have actually enjoyed.

I don't have an issue with telegraphs. I think Tera executed this type of combat quite nicely, but I do think there should be skills where aiming is more important. Playing a ranged caster or archer just doesn't feel right when your reticle works like this. Shooting a bow that has real physics and you can watch your projectile make contact with your target is much more rewarding.

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Just now, Jah said:

Yea, I can see where my comment could be seen as ridiculously literal, but there is truth to it.

You can't get the same kind of twitchy shooter performance in an MMORPG as you can in a 6 v 6 on a small map.

It has been done and it was called Darkfall. If you haven't noticed, I really liked it and wanted this game to be more like it.

I admitted to Helix earlier in this thread that I failed to define what I liked about Overwatch. I later stated that it was the class design and fluidity of the combat that I found enjoyable. I also would like to see more shooter/aiming elements in Crowfall, but that is just me.

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17 hours ago, Helix said:

I think it was tblair that said that he mourns the loss of telegraphs, and that the reticle gives people false impressions about what combat is really like. He also likened the current state of combat to something more like wildstar and less like a traditional FPS. When they showed the telegraphs originally people got all up in arms because, "oh my god, colors!". Although I personally like the reticle for aiming and help "centering" your character, if it's not an accurate display of how long or wide ability DMs truly are, perhaps they should go back to self-only telegraphs.

 

17 hours ago, blazzen said:

An option to toggle them on/off certainly couldn't hurt. 

Still think they're too wide though on things like 60m bow shots. 

I think when it tightens up a bit it will be more like Wildstar, and that telegraphs are fine, as long as people can turn them off.  I liked Wildstar's PvP gameplay, minus the exploits and huge obvious problems with they way the designed the point system/gear progression.  My no-bot engineer is still among the most mechanical fun I've had playing a character in an MMORPG to date.  

 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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when i played daoc a friend who had friends and family blizzard status let me play some pre wow... i mentioned that the game was horrible and would die in 18 months. guess ill eat crow since it will most likely be 18 years.

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Yea I tried to get ACE to listen but they seem to think catering to slow gamers is good... that may be what the slow gamers tell them but slow gamers don't know what makes a game good, they barely know how to play them.  

ACTION combat should make you feel engaged and it should feel like there is some serious action.

CF feels like a slower WoW, a tab-target game from almost 15 years ago now.  


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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