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jshiu999

Why is testing so boring? What exactly is being tested right now?

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Why is testing so boring? What exactly is being tested right now?

 

I kind of missed Siege Perilous and Hungerdome, where we tested combat and sieging. I'm not sure what Crowfall is testing right now, is it the Crafting Recipes? World Generation? Or are they simply waiting for the team to finish up the character models and rigging and are fixing bugs while they're waiting? Can someone explain to me what Crowfall is currently "testing" right now? It would be cool if they would bring Hungerdome back, but as a "slow" version (so basically a Hungerdome that lasts hours) as a campaign instead of the one we have right now. The current campaigns feels empty for us players who aren't in guilds :c

 

Edit: For clarity I've tested the game since 2015 Hungerdome, and I play on both testing and live client. My point is that there are no players in the game, Hungerdome and Siege Perilous were what made the game fun to test, because they attracted a lot of players, and the content was streamable.

Edited by jshiu999

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Speaking as a games QA guy IRL - testing is pretty boring... You don't know what fun is until you're on hour ten of negative testing the same broken assets in Barbie Dream Castle, on a Saturday, with no building AC... Or on step 500 of 2300 for an XBox certification pass and if you have to look at a config menu one more time you might just jump out a window. ;)

We're testing/stressing everything 'new' in the patch notes (race/class split, new harvesting systems, new race, new class, changed skill trees, combat tuning, etc, etc.) ... And it's clearly netting some input given the 200 odd posts in the bug thread.

I think the re-do on the 5.3.4 Tyranny map is just because there was a couple of weeks of holiday mixed in there where not a lot happened at ACE... If I'm guessing.

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1 hour ago, jshiu999 said:

Why is testing so boring? What exactly is being tested right now?

Haha, this made me laugh. ACE pay attention to these kind of threads. People have being asking for a more fun campaign for a while now.

That said, i think the last introduced mechanic was action harversting so if i had to guess this is what ACE consider as this build testing focus. The problem is that this build has being around long enough that focus has being lost and any fedback is a good as any other. Most posts on the feedback thread are tied to old mechanics.

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5 hours ago, jshiu999 said:

Why is testing so boring? What exactly is being tested right now?

 

I kind of missed Siege Perilous and Hungerdome, where we tested combat and sieging. I'm not sure what Crowfall is testing right now, is it the Crafting Recipes? World Generation? Or are they simply waiting for the team to finish up the character models and rigging and are fixing bugs while they're waiting? Can someone explain to me what Crowfall is currently "testing" right now? It would be cool if they would bring Hungerdome back, but as a "slow" version (so basically a Hungerdome that lasts hours) as a campaign instead of the one we have right now. The current campaigns feels empty for us players who aren't in guilds :c

I would have to say cuz it’s a testing phase and with testing you get the lack of fun.  It should resemble more work than fun.... we would all love work to be fun, but sometimes it’s straight up dirty and you just gotta do it.  The fun phase won’t probably be till after closed beta.  

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5 hours ago, jshiu999 said:

Why is testing so boring?

We are simulating a game loop in Crowfall with the current Combat. It just so happens it is very boring.

What exactly is being tested right now?

How long ACE can ignore the "your game is boring" feedback before doing anything.

 

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Biggest issue right now is that our testing is out pacing the fixes.  Entirely because they are still building content and not focused on fixing things just yet.  Building content takes far more time than testing it (not in terms of man-hours, but in actual real time).  Once we get most of the content in, then we will start to see fixes coming just as fast as you can provide feedback about them.

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It's uh.. Well, testing. Like, legitimately testing. I personally enjoy testing and bughunting - but I also enjoy tedious work related to software and games.

I'm sorry that you don't find it exciting, but in reality it's not supposed to be. The (pre)alpha servers aren't supposed to be an engaging and thrilling game, they're supposed to be a framework for us to poke and prod and find holes in, while getting a peek at what's to come.

If you were hoping for a gamey-game-funzies experience, you should wait for the beta at the earliest. They aren't advertising the alpha as being phenomenal, because that's not the purpose it serves.

QA/Bugtesting is expensive, and time consuming. Alpha tests like this are a nice way to bridge the gap and get them "free" (save the cost of maintaining the servers) bug testing and stress testing, while letting people who are excited about the game get a peek into the innerworkings and behind-the-scenes.

Behind-the-scenes is rarely pretty. Alphas are rarely riveting gameplay. Testing is only fun if you enjoy it.

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Point of reference; we crashed the server over the holidays which exposed a nice bug, and they rolled a fix for it really quick. That was a legit issue with something that was quickly locatable and fixable. So things can (and will) happen quickly when they can.

Part of the bug -> fix slowdown is that when dealing with untrained testers one person's end of the world the game will never work abandon all hope showstopper bug is another person's minor annoyance. And some "bugs" reported are due to systems that aren't implemented yet, other "bugs" are simple misunderstandings of game systems, and yet other "bugs" are so poorly documented that exploratory surgery has to happen to figure it out... This means that things we see have to be analyzed and prioritized by someone inside the dev loop, and that takes time.

Crowdsourced QA is cheap, but slow for this reason. You get a ton of data for no real expense, but then you need someone to curate it into actionable intelligence.

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You are also probably a LIVE server player which will not see the latest content that will drop on TEST first with invites by account level pre-alphas day 1, alphas day 2-3 Beta 1s day 5-6... etc  the high level backers are very excited for 5.4 which will be testing crafting benches in the faction world forts and castles.  Most players will be locked out of advanced recipes and the crafting unless high level trained...   they will have access to benches in the beachhead for basics and a new set of intermediate level recipes.   Forts/Castles will be essential to hold for crafting the good gears so the game loop gets enhanced by this too.   We are all excited to test this, well the testers and crafters are...   combat focused players get ASSASSIN! in 5.4.   Crossing fingers for this.next/week.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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39 minutes ago, Sir_Miserable said:

Is it because it is not really a player test, but an additional income generation phase with a pseudo user test on top to encourage more buyers? 

People aren't cynical enough to see the truth. ACE can't afford "professional testing" so it sells us suckers an unfinished product so we can pay to test for them.

Then you have loyal backers of ACE who claim ACE is extremely generous for letting us (allowing us to give them money for a project that is not complete) see the game in this current state which they claim is pre-alpha (and has been for 3 years now) even though we are in pre-alpha state AFTER failing to release in 2017 as promised initially by ACE.

But sure, why stop using the pre-alpha BS excuse now when it is all we have left to justify why this game isn't better.

I am OK with them doing all of this, as long as they listen to feedback and make the game better. In its current state, its a fail that will be forgotten in 1 month after release.

The forum is turning into "ACE Investor & Tester" vs "Everyone Else". Everyone else is giving real honest feedback and you can tell because their post count is < 50 because they are new players. The ACE Investors & Testers are here to silence the "everyone else" with excuses because they have been putting up with this BS for 3 years and some are still eating the BS and lying to themselves that it is good.

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Dang, it is almost like the game isn't done.

 

There is fun to be had but it really isn't a solo level. I know we've had several pugs wandering around with us pvping. In terms of actually playing it like a game, the players have to make that bit for themselves.

 

Obviously the game will have to help support that more in the future but seeing as it is a play test, it isn't super surprising. I'll admit I wish they were further along with some of that stuff than they are but I would also rather they take their time and get it right rather than releasing something that isn't complete

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This is why when anyone who has been here a while is asked about the game most people will say:

"There is no Game yet, no game loop, it's just a murder, crafting and harvesting sim on a tiny map.  If you are unsure about testing please wait till it's further along in the dev process to purchase.

Edited by Destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

YouTube Channel

 

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11 minutes ago, Destrin said:

If you are unsure about testing please wait till it's further along in the dev process to purchase.

Pretty much this. Believe it or not the game, in it's current "pre-alpha" state can be fun. Unfortunately, as you stated, I imagine it can feel quite empty for players not in guilds. ACE, despite what some may say, has never "sold a bill of goods" to the community about the project or it's development. They have been quite transparent in fact.  

If you look, they implicitly state; "Early Access" is a process that allows players to get a look at a game while it is still in the early stages of development. While games in early access are often very "buggy" and lack much of the content they need for launch, it can be quite an interesting (and educational) experience to see the behind-the-scenes development of a video game over time.

Right now, almost all "content" is player driven, or guild driven I should say. If you go to the Crows Of a Feather section you'll find plenty of videos. The latest one being "Seige at Archenstone", which had rather large participation. This event was coordinated between guilds of competing factions. Maybe if more guilds would participate there would be more content? Who knows. But that's not really the point.

This is not a game, it is a testing environment. Any real "game play", or content derived, is largely dependent on the community to provide. At this point at least.

For a better experience, I would highly recommend finding a community to run with, unless you're hell-bent on running solo.

 

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2 hours ago, armegeddon said:

This is not a game, it is a testing environment. Any real "game play", or content derived, is largely dependent on the community to provide. At this point at least.

 

I would like this embellished, emblazoned on the forums, and stamped onto each page of the store. The team hasn't been subtle in saying that it will be buggy, but I don't think the point is really being driven home. People think it's a buggy beta, not - as you said - a testing environment.

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On 1/3/2018 at 2:27 AM, jshiu999 said:

Why is testing so boring?

What exactly is being tested right now?

Testing is boring because it is testing.

BUT

There really isn't much guidance into what we should be testing.

I could be totally wrong, but personally, if they provided a list of XYZ to test and how to provide efficient feedback, I most likely would and assume others would as well.

The "log in, play around, let us know what you think or see" really does nothing for me when it comes to actual testing.

Obviously there are some that enjoy or at least do their best to provide feedback as is, but the number seems rather small.

They provided a list or spreadsheet years? back that covered a lot of things to test specifically. No clue why they haven't done so be it on a large or small scale on a regular basis, especially with big patches and new systems/features.

I pity the ACE employees that get to wade through all the feedback currently. Personally would say no no no and attempt to put something better in place. Then again I work in a field where time, cost, and efficiency are all highly important.

Maybe what I see as unorganized chaos is normal for gaming and not that hard to deal with, but seems like a lot of wasted resources on everyone's part.

For someone that is new or hasn't logged in a good while, where are they to start? "Make the same weapon that people have for the last year and provide feedback...."

 

Edited by APE

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