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Kee

Please nix the term "early access", for our sanity.

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1 hour ago, ArcJurado said:

I mean to me Early Access means still in development.  At which stage isn't part of It, know that you're buying into an unfinished product.  If people make assumptions that it's "nearly complete" because of that that's on them.  Early access means just that, access early while it's incomplete.

You can't sadly just say "that is on them", because they are then potential lost customers, and thus potential lost income, and as this point they dont seem to be a small amount of ppl anymore, and thus can't really afford to ignore it. and many ppl would see Early access as mid to late beta, which is very much a playable gamestate, maybe with some balance issues and minor bugs, and then that is it, where the pre-alpha CF is in right now is more of a not even all systems are ingame, and thus no full gameloop, hence not a playable gamestate

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7 hours ago, goose said:

"All these meaningless, jargony words that mean nothing to most people are very confusing. Let's use some different meaningless, jargony words that will mean nothing to most people to make things less confusing."

For the record, I agree that less confusing = more gooder and Test Access or similar is less confusing. I just think the whole thing is kind of funny. :3

Hah, yes I totally understand. I'd like it to be just a good description rather than another word that really changes based on context, but condensing that into a blurb that can fit on all the areas they have "EARLY ACCESS" pasted is not super easy.
Although a button with tiny font reading "Click here to gain access to our limited content test server wherein you can get a general gist of how the game is going but you're essentially playing a trial version of the full game but with the potential for gamebreaking bugs and inconsistent uptime." would be hilarious.

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7 hours ago, Gummiel said:

You can't sadly just say "that is on them", because they are then potential lost customers, and thus potential lost income, and as this point they dont seem to be a small amount of ppl anymore, and thus can't really afford to ignore it. and many ppl would see Early access as mid to late beta, which is very much a playable gamestate, maybe with some balance issues and minor bugs, and then that is it, where the pre-alpha CF is in right now is more of a not even all systems are ingame, and thus no full gameloop, hence not a playable gamestate

They don't ignore it. I just had to re-download the client today because my old one exploded, and even though I have one of the first few thousand accounts and have downloaded the client before and didn't have to make any purchases, I had to click through two separate pages that said in no uncertain terms "the game is not finished yet. click here if you understand."

At this point, anyone who buys this game, downloads the client, logs into the client, and then complains that the game isn't finished... It IS on them. ACE has done their due diligence and then some.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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14 minutes ago, goose said:

 

At this point, anyone who buys this game, downloads the client, logs into the client, and then complains that the game isn't finished... It IS on them. ACE has done their due diligence and then some.

The problem is the "buys this game" part comes before the client warnings, after the "no refund" policy has kicked in.  I haven't had to go through the "buy this game" process in a very long time, so maybe it's just as clear there and this is all just stupid banter. 

I just question the "Early Access" button, precisely because of how Steam uses the term.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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4 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

The problem is the "buys this game" part comes before the client warnings, after the "no refund" policy has kicked in.  I haven't had to go through the "buy this game" process in a very long time, so maybe it's just as clear there and this is all just stupid banter. 

I just question the "Early Access" button, precisely because of how Steam uses the term.

I also haven't had to interact with the purchase options since Kickstarter, but my understanding is that they added several additional clarifications about what you were buying before the option to pay them money. The issue as I see it is that no amount of information provided by ACE will help someone who doesn't read it, even if they just add an entire page that just says "The game is in early access. That means it isn't done yet, so the thing you're paying for now is not the same as the finished game. Click CONTINUE if you understand." People will click CONTINUE and then immediately take to the forums, asking for a refund because what they got wasn't the finished game.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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15 hours ago, goose said:

I also haven't had to interact with the purchase options since Kickstarter, but my understanding is that they added several additional clarifications about what you were buying before the option to pay them money. The issue as I see it is that no amount of information provided by ACE will help someone who doesn't read it, even if they just add an entire page that just says "The game is in early access. That means it isn't done yet, so the thing you're paying for now is not the same as the finished game. Click CONTINUE if you understand." People will click CONTINUE and then immediately take to the forums, asking for a refund because what they got wasn't the finished game.

That's the issue though- we don't need more warnings that this game is early access, that's what's plastered all over the place. The issue is that the term early access has been used as a cop out of releasing slightly-buggy betas. That's again, not ACE's fault, but it's causing people to lump CF in with the likes of PUBG and ARK. That is clearly not the state of things.
Saying "It isn't done yet, it's not the same as the finished game" is really understating the amount of work that's still ahead for the development team.

I recently bought the game myself, but if I had not gone poking into more information on the forums, I would have assumed it was in a state similar to ARK. That's the vibe it gives off. Yes, it is ultimately on those people to do that footwork and research what they're buying! But we do not live in an ideal world, and these disgruntled folk are really harshin' our vibe here.

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5 minutes ago, Kee said:

That's the issue though- we don't need more warnings that this game is early access, that's what's plastered all over the place. The issue is that the term early access has been used as a cop out of releasing slightly-buggy betas. That's again, not ACE's fault, but it's causing people to lump CF in with the likes of PUBG and ARK. That is clearly not the state of things.
Saying "It isn't done yet, it's not the same as the finished game" is really understating the amount of work that's still ahead for the development team.

I recently bought the game myself, but if I had not gone poking into more information on the forums, I would have assumed it was in a state similar to ARK. That's the vibe it gives off. Yes, it is ultimately on those people to do that footwork and research what they're buying! But we do not live in an ideal world, and these disgruntled folk are really harshin' our vibe here.

This kind of frustration is misdirected, though. The issue here isn't games like Crowfall, which are using these terms correctly - the issue is Steam copyrighting an industry term and then using it in a nonstandard way, making it "common knowledge" that it means something it didn't actually mean when it was an industry term. As far as the fact that the game development process is changing, that..isn't really anyone's fault, but it IS a fact, and that fact is the only reason I think ACE - or any game developer - should try to be more clear than using a common term within their industry, because by opening up this stage of testing to people who don't have the requisite knowledge, they are requiring of themselves more clarification. A lot of the "lack of clarity" people complain about isn't actually a lack of clarity at all - it's more an unprecedented amount of clarity...into a world most people never see at all and know nothing about. So it seems to me that the biggest issue is that ACE didn't know just how much they had to dumb everything down when explaining where development was at. And how could they? No one has been this open with the dev process before.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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On 1/4/2018 at 10:22 AM, Jjohnsin said:

It does say in big letters that the game is in testing phases that you have to click thru to get to the download launcher iirc. I could be wrong though. If not, I agree ACE could always put more places that the game is simply in testing phases. 

You are not wrong. It says it in large, screen-dominating letters that it forces you to click through and scroll past twice every single time you download the client, plus more times when purchasing the game. They are pretty ham-fisted about it. People just don't read.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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On 1/4/2018 at 6:04 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

Very much past the point of buy in, which is the biggest problem with the current language.

"Early Access" should be renamed to "Test Access". Lose all the debate about alpha pre-alpha, and all the other overused and confusing terms. 

Test is test, and connotes an unfinished product, and a user role other than that of a player. You press buy AFTER a button and language that says testing on it, you have no excuse to complain.

 

 

I believe this to be the best answer. The issue is that different areas of the game industry have different definitions to Alpha, Beta, Gold, etc. On top of that these terms get thrown around to non-devs which get the various definitions thus leading to even more confusion. 

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