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20oz

Thoughts after playing a few hours

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Here's some feedback I have after playing for few hours last night and this morning.

 

1. Someone in chat linked me to https://crowfall.com/en/how-to-play/ and it's a huge help. For example, I wasn't training any skills until I read that link because it wasn't immediately obvious I need to. In fact, for skill training, you might want to put a pop warning if you start to play and aren't currently training anything. 

2. Being able to hover over anything in the ui and get a pop up explanation when you're in a mouse free type interface would be great.  Until I read the link above, I didn't know K was where I could actually go to see what those abilities in my combat hot bar did.

3. Progression is painfully slow and the cost of death seems like a lot. It's very easy to get frustrated and want to just quit. Playing a myrmidon trying to fight boars for example is rough for someone brand new. Maybe I should try another class, but if that class is so skill based maybe you should even consider making a tier of classes so that heavy skill based ones aren't available to newer players. 

 

My general view right now is I kind of like the approach of a heavy crafting based system but I think maybe the time sink is too much. Now I may be a more unique player, I'm both a heavy MMO player who has been around for a while (UO, EQ on release, DAOC including beta, Shadowbane, WoW and most recently ESO) and also someone with over 2000 hours of Rust so I have some experience with the survival gather/craft systems. 

 

My thoughts on what I'd like to be able to do in this game would be to gather resources for just a few minutes to be able to create the basic weapons/armor. Then kill a few mobs to be able to get the leather necessary to improve up to better weapons. Then go PvP and get rewards from PvP that I could use to buy better stuff from people who are putting their training time into crafting. Those crafters would also be necessary to build (and maybe even operate) siege equipment. Sort of how like I played ESO where once I had decent gear I basically never left Cyrodiil because PVP is really all I wanted from the game. 

 

I do over all like the pace and feel of combat. I did note that my dodge skill wasn't slotted by default. Also no general block feels a little weird but not gameplay breakingly so. Just wow, ok this is new. New in a new game isn't bad :) 

I like the art style from both a style and performance perspective. Game is running great on an i5 w/ Radeon R9 Fury. 

Edited by 20oz

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One other comment on death, after reading through some other threads. 

I feel like death penalties are for heavy PvE games. Where the idea is to never die. The reward in PvE is experience for more levels, gear, money, etc etc.

On a PvP focused game like that one, there's not a huge amount of reward for PvP. Rather most of the reward from PvP (in my opinion) is the actual act of PvP. Fighting another intelligent opponent. Death can and should happen more often, especially as you're learning the game. I've seen people can loot, that's a pretty big risk especially in a crafting based game. I think the durability loss is a bit too harsh though. Death shouldn't be "crap, now I have to stop pvping and go craft or buy new stuff". You should be able to get out there and PvP again.

I'm thinking gear should lose durability through use only and maybe more powerful weapons should be less durable. That way you weigh the risk/reward of using the more powerful weapon is going to cost you more time in replacing it and/or repairing it. 

Actually, if it doesn't exist already, a craft repair system might be a great idea too in order to keep the crafters engaged. My golden sword of smashing needs repaired and I can't do it myself, I have to find someone else who can. Or maybe I can buy player created repair kits of a high enough level to repair it?

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28 minutes ago, 20oz said:

1. Someone in chat linked me to https://crowfall.com/en/how-to-play/ and it's a huge help. For example, I wasn't training any skills until I read that link because it wasn't immediately obvious I need to. In fact, for skill training, you might want to put a pop warning if you start to play and aren't currently training anything.

That is actually a really good point, that are easily forgotten about by veteran players I guess, that definitely need to happen, maybe even so far as to prevent you from entering either EK's, or CW's before you at least been inside the training menu at least once

 

Keep in mind you will have to specialise in this game once launch comes around (can get around it right now with some alchemy potions), so if you want to do mainly pvp and go into the combat tree you will not be able to make anything but basic and intermediate weapons and armor (intermediate weapons and armor is coming in 5.4 that is on the "test server" right now, and is a step between basic and advanced, but closer to basic, advanced will be locked by skill training, and both intermediate and advanced with form 5.4 and onward require you to be at the appropriate crafting station as well, so only basics can be made anywhere)

 

the penalties to death is needed to keep the crafters and harvesters in the game. There have been talk about repairing, not sure if its still coming or not though, but can be pretty sure if it does, it would be coming from the crafters (which in turn would need mats from harvesters to do it). But even if repairing comes you can be 100% sure that anything will eventually get destroyed, EVERYTHING including your vessels

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the new tester experience is tough to talk someone through, been there many times doing that to people on twitch etc

the 5.4 patch and going onward should hopefully have adjustments to the crafting cycles

it will also bring more information that you can mouse over e.g. detailed stat windows etc

ACE are also prototyping and making some new tutorial videos that will help a lot as well

example

 

Edited by Tinnis

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25 minutes ago, Gummiel said:

the penalties to death is needed to keep the crafters and harvesters in the game. There have been talk about repairing, not sure if its still coming or not though, but can be pretty sure if it does, it would be coming from the crafters (which in turn would need mats from harvesters to do it). But even if repairing comes you can be 100% sure that anything will eventually get destroyed, EVERYTHING including your vessels

My thought on this is that with a PvP ecosystem, you die a lot more learning to play than you do in a PvE system. So the death penalty only hits newer players that much harder. That's why I'm suggesting possibly a less death based system and rather a system where more powerful items require more upkeep. This balances the need for crafters to support the equipment of the people playing more than the people who are just entering the game. 

 

I think the skill tree supports that type of approach. The guy specced all out in combat is going to require the crafter to upkeep their gear. In my experience, the pvp crowd is very min/maxer heavy so they will put a lot of focus on best gear possible for each combat engagement. 

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25 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

the new tester experience is tough to talk someone through, been there many times doing that to people on twitch etc

the 5.4 patch and going onward should hopefully have adjustments to the crafting cycles

it will also bring more information that you can mouse over e.g. detailed stat windows etc

ACE are also prototyping and making some new tutorial videos that will help a lot as well

example

 

Now you know what would be cool, if the UI supported a help system that could pop these videos up in game. 

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17 minutes ago, 20oz said:

Now you know what would be cool, if the UI supported a help system that could pop these videos up in game. 

previously they had introduction videos inside the main menu. not sure if still there or disabled while they update.

e.g.

and the other ones of

 

Edited by Tinnis

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24 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

previously they had introduction videos inside the main menu. not sure if still there or disabled while they update.

They were so out of date they took them off.

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The time it takes to be relevant in Crowfall is very minimal. When starting out, punch some trees until you get enough wood for a basic axe. Take the axe and chop more trees, make a basic pick and a basic hammer. Use the hammer and pick to get cobblestone and slag and use the wood/stone/ore you've obtained to make a set of basic gear. You can do a lot with basic gear.

Crafting advanced gear takes a bit longer but the time investment is reduced significantly if you have just a single friend to play the game with. This is the key to Crowfall I feel: you need some buddies. The game is playable solo, but the difficulty is quite high for the low reward.

Keep in mind when you die in PvP you lose the items in your inventory, not the items you have equipped. Your equipment loses 10% of it's durability when you die, but it can't be looted. Materials will always be a key point of Crowfall, and there should always be risk involved in collecting higher tier materials as those materials can create higher tier tools, weapons and armor. I personally find this to be one of the key reasons to keep the current pvp looting system.

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I'm all for the pvp looting system. My concern is the durability loss which is pretty expensive. 10 deaths can completely wipe out your gear. Also, being brand new, the time it takes to go from nothing to a full set of basic gear feels pretty long. I'm downloading the game on my laptop, maybe I'll time it just to see if it's as bad as it feels.

My perspective could be based on the fact I come from a game that starts out similar, Rust. There you generally start banging on a tree and from there progress to getting gear, building a base, etc etc. It just seems to me the flow of that game of going from nothing to something is much quicker.

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