VIKINGNAIL

Get rid of the passive skill system.

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I actually like Vikingnail's idea about a campaign with a true reset. I feel like this is a legitimate option that they could easily pursue in the future. I actually feel like this highlights the greatest strength of Crowfall. The ability to make multiple different types of players happy is huge. VN and other people that want a reset can get a reset campaign with some nice hardcore options if they want them. People who want something more casual like myself, can get that too. There's no reason we can't have our cake and eat it too, is there?

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On 1/12/2018 at 3:27 PM, Joyeuse said:

The only problem I have with the skill trees is they take so long to go through.  Personally, I would like it to be shorter and to grant you only a certain amount of training points so you can customize your skill set more and get that feeling of experimentation.  But since its tied to the overall account, I guess it has to be this way.  If it could be at the actual character level that would make it work.  

Except the vision for the game never was for "levelling your skill or character" as a core game play goal.

It was engaging with other players in a CW.

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18 hours ago, Bramble said:

Except the vision for the game never was for "levelling your skill or character" as a core game play goal.

It was engaging with other players in a CW.

That vision wouldn't change because my idea still incorporates passive skill training.  All my idea does is change your decision making process when training skills and locks your character to a specific outcome based on the decisions you make.  Not sure how that would change their vision since you aren't actively "leveling" your character.  The only part that would infringe upon that vision is if you screw up because you thought going crit damage and chance on a healer was smart and you have to reroll because you're gimp, but again, since the trees would be much shorter, it wouldn't take that long to "max" your path.  In addition, if the skills grant the same as they do now, it's not like you will be at that much of a disadvantage.  Also how would you test your character experiment once finished?  You don't just roll a character can call it the best build for that class without vetting it in real combat and since the training is passive, what else are you going to do besides go try it out in real combat?  It is an added variable that would have an extremely small impact (if any) on player to player interactions.  

But you also have to understand that people are going to look at the fact that they are a year behind others in terms of skill trees and while it may not be a huge deal, it will feel that way to some.  I understand they are toying with catch up mechanics, but how can you allow someone to catch up without penalizing those who have been in the game since the start by allowing a new player to do the same things they can?  To me having the trees be short would make that less impactful to the veterans and allow the newbies to catch up in a reasonable amount of time.  

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Here are my 2 bits. I work a very hectic job and there is no guarantee I can play every night or even every week so a passive system lets me keep up to pace with my guild etc without being punished for having a job. I believe games should be hobbies and not jobs, so why should my work life and game life merge? I am quite happy with the system.

Edited by KittyBot
spelling error

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14 hours ago, KittyBot said:

Here are my 2 bits. I work a very hectic job and there is no guarantee I can play every night or even every week so a passive system lets me keep up to pace with my guild etc without being punished for having a job. I believe games should be hobbies and not jobs, so why should my work life and game life merge? I am quite happy with the system.

It doesn't allow you to keep up to pace with others. It's training for the sake of training.

Remove the system and you are still behind in resources, rewards, gear, in-game experience, Vessel leveling, etc. Those that play more (pay more as well) will always be a head.

Passive training combats itself only.

The game would function pretty much the same without it. Could remove the mindless vertical stat system running in the background that people feel compelled to stay on top of so they don't get left behind. Even though there is a "super shallow power curve."

Just another time sink carrot to get people to log in regularly. Maybe don't need to play every night, but this system still requires players to log in regularly, or less if you pay more...

Even though I don't know of many games where you actually have to log in everyday. This seems like a relic of early MMOs.

I work at a hospital, work 10-12+ hour shifts, take call. I'd much prefer no passive system or an alternate version on specific CWs so I can tailor it to me when I can actually use it. This system really doesn't help the "adult life" folks very much.

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7 hours ago, APE said:

I work at a hospital, work 10-12+ hour shifts, take call. I'd much prefer no passive system or an alternate version on specific CWs so I can tailor it to me when I can actually use it. This system really doesn't help the "adult life" folks very much.

 You stating some really average amount of daily hours for the medical service per day has zero hold on how your opinion holding more then anyone else's career in all honesty. Secondly, you stating it only affects combat is also rather misplaced, because again if my skills stay up to date then when I return to grind I will have a much faster experience then if my grinding speed wasnt improved when not playing.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between logging into a game and tick a few boxes then turning off the game and having time to actually play the game. This so called "adult life" which in reality also affects children or teenagers with sports hobbies etc, is a factor and it shouldnt just be dismissed because your medical professional has made you accustomed to living on low sleep, some of us need sleep.

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41 minutes ago, KittyBot said:

 You stating some really average amount of daily hours for the medical service per day has zero hold on how your opinion holding more then anyone else's career in all honesty. Secondly, you stating it only affects combat is also rather misplaced, because again if my skills stay up to date then when I return to grind I will have a much faster experience then if my grinding speed wasnt improved when not playing.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between logging into a game and tick a few boxes then turning off the game and having time to actually play the game. This so called "adult life" which in reality also affects children or teenagers with sports hobbies etc, is a factor and it shouldnt just be dismissed because your medical professional has made you accustomed to living on low sleep, some of us need sleep.

I dont get why you are starting to bashing his career choice as a way to justify the action of a passive system :P Its kinda wierd.

Anyway I see his point, I mean you do play games to have fun and also do something meaningfull ? The passive system lets you keep up to date in a sense that you dont work for the goal, except for checking a box now and again. What Ape is saying is that you would still be behind on resources, online companions, guild raids of forts, because you have far less time than someone else. The passive system doesnt change that fact. 

Even when you come back online you would still have to farm materials, if thats what you choose to do, then find someone who can make the required gear or if you craft it yourself, but then you would need supplies and you would have to get that from a gatherer, and if you are combat only you would have to go and find both of those before you could go into combat. 

Even if you are on par with the skill system due to its passive nature you would still be behind by quite a lot, unless you are in a guild that just hands out everything to everyone, then your in luck :D

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9 hours ago, KittyBot said:

 You stating some really average amount of daily hours for the medical service per day has zero hold on how your opinion holding more then anyone else's career in all honesty. Secondly, you stating it only affects combat is also rather misplaced, because again if my skills stay up to date then when I return to grind I will have a much faster experience then if my grinding speed wasnt improved when not playing.

Lastly, there is a huge difference between logging into a game and tick a few boxes then turning off the game and having time to actually play the game. This so called "adult life" which in reality also affects children or teenagers with sports hobbies etc, is a factor and it shouldnt just be dismissed because your medical professional has made you accustomed to living on low sleep, some of us need sleep.

My point was the passive system doesn't help busy or regular folks that have real lives outside of gaming. Regardless if that is taking kids to a game, crazy work hours, social lives, homework, other hobbies, etc. Most of us have things we should probably be doing rather than sitting on our butts playing games, but forget that!

The passive system is a solution for an issue it creates. That is what I meant by it combats itself. Remove passive training and you don't need to passively train... 

Much like grinding. If the game isn't setup to reward grinding, there is no need to grind.

At the start it seemed like they were trying to break away from "filling another exp bar" and grinding just to grind, but the game seems very much built with those as key factors.

ACE has designed something that has similar time sinks and traps that other games have and they are attempting to counter them somewhat creatively, but to me it is just another wrapper for the same package.

Those that play more will almost always be a head in multiple ways and areas. 

Passively training for a week and gaining +5 Dex and +2% crafting speed isn't going to keep you on the same tier as those playing daily if you can only put in a fraction of the time/effort. Even if you have help from others, you'll still not be as skilled/knowledgeable about the game most likely.

Is what it is and I long ago accepted I can't/won't be as competitive as folks putting in countless hours and money into video games. IMO, passive training doesn't help me at all.

I'd argue that active systems, such as leveling Vessels off mobs and sacrifices actually benefit limited time folks more than passive training. That's if we didn't have both stacking the need to log in and grind even more frequently. Really don't need these at all though. Passive/Grind based stat gains are out of place in CF, again IMO.

If you believe passive training will keep you competitive, great, good luck. For me it is simply another chore to keep up on to avoid falling even further behind.

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