VIKINGNAIL

Get rid of the passive skill system.

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8 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I'm sorry but I'm not under the impression that JTC is some sort of game design messiah. 

...

Messiah?  No.  Creative director of Crowfall, a game which is built upon the principle of and advertised as "Eternal Heroes, Dying Worlds"?  Yes.  

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1 hour ago, BarriaKarl said:

*Shrugs* It is a catch up mechanic. You cant reward older players without punishing new players. The only way to avoid this is doing like VN said and deleting all progress between CW. That for me is worse, i dont enjoy doing the same stuff over and over just for it to become void in the end, again. Seeing months worths of progress vanishing just 'cuz newbies all salty that i am awesome? Nah, i better play minecraft.

How fun is crafting 1000000 wood swords before being able to craft a iron one? lvling skills is hardly fun at all (maybe fighting skills but that is mostly just fighting itself) and the passive nature of the current system is hardly to blame.

You arent supposed to focus on the passive skill tree, this isnt what CF is about. There is (there will be?) a whole new world out there and here you are complaining that the skill tree is boring. My point is if the only thing fun enough in the game is the passive skill tree, well, we failed and the game is done for.

This is more of a perspective issue imo.  Are you seeing months of progress vanish?  What did you really do for that progress, you clicked a few buttons.  What is the advantage of removing that progress, even playing fields and the ability to rebuild a character or copy it the exact same way if you were satisfied before.  It also lets campaigns actually have an early mid and late game, as opposed to once people are super trained there being no early game because people can quickly hop right to the more advanced tiers of stuff when a campaign starts.  

Your logic is bad though, you shouldn't just accept a boring passive system simply because you expect that the game has to have other fun elements.  Everything should be made to be interesting fun and engaging, it strengthens the entire gameplay experience.  

What's more fun for PvP, starting off on an even playing field and trying to outskill each other or holding onto a few button clicks that gave you enough training to work with a better type of wood?  More importantly, even if you do really love the persistence of the current system, is it unreasonable to ask that they at least have some even playing field campaigns?  I mean a game that was talking about concepts like guinecean only campaigns, as something they COULD experiment with if people wanted it enough, should have no problem having 0 pre-trained character campaigns if enough people want it right?

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

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17 hours ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Are you opposed to ACE offering campaigns with fresh passive training for other players that would enjoy that?

I think that campaigns for brand new crows (only) is such a good idea it's fine for you to repeat it here.

I also think that taking away passive training between campaigns is a terrible idea. CF will not and should not be a MOBA!

 

To my mind, the problems with the passive skill system are thus:

  1. Too grindy. Even with VIP a player has to visit his account too often to adjust training, or lose training. I would be better 4 the time bank to last over a month.
  2. Skills aren't very interesting. They mostly raise attributes and stats. the skill tree should gate more new abilities and recipes.
  3. Skill trees are too linear. There should be multiple directions sprouting from many more nodes, and multiple paths to access a given advanced node.

Having said all this, it would be ridiculous for ACE to totally abandon the passive skill system.

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I've not really noodled into it, but so far it looks like the passive systems garner, at best, a 10% increase in the base numbers and some crafting unlocks... 10% is not exactly an insurmountable advantage for the proverbial 'noob' to overcome.

Now - while I'd like the passive skill system to offer more depth and options for individualization, with more depth and options comes more cliff for new players to overcome. If the goal is to not offer any real insurmountable advantage for having been playing for years when compared to someone just starting out, there cannot really be anything "good" locked behind a gate of time. For if there is 'good stuff' to be had, anyone who does not have it is at a mechanical disadvantage and will whine incessantly.

A possible solution is to once again borrow from Eve; some sort of time multiplier subject to diminishing returns. In Eve you can get egregiously expensive implants that shorten the time-to-skill - but the detractor is that implants are destroyed when you are... So they're great for getting up to speed in a safe area, but tend to be too expensive for general use and the diminishing returns as you get into 14+ day trains makes them fairly useless beyond a certain point.

Just a thought.

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59 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Your logic is bad though, you shouldn't just accept a boring passive system simply because you expect that the game has to have other fun elements.  Everything should be made to be interesting fun and engaging, it strengthens the entire gameplay experience.  

Well, yeah.  The point is that is that lvling skills is hardly ever fun. The passive skill training is kinda boring but the fact that we can run it in the background while we do more interesting stuff is a positive IMO.

The passive has it own set of problems but i believe being passive isnt one of them.

1 hour ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

What's more fun for PvP, starting off on an even playing field and trying to outskill each other or holding onto a few button clicks that gave you enough training to work with a better type of wood?  More importantly, even if you do really love the persistence of the current system, is it unreasonable to ask that they at least have some even playing field campaigns?  I mean a game that was talking about concepts like guinecean only campaigns, as something they COULD experiment with if people wanted it enough, should have no problem having 0 pre-trained character campaigns if enough people want it right?

You picked the wrong title if that is what you are trying to bring to the table. There is no need to gut the passive training if that is what you are looking for. I believe nobody here would mind a ruleset like that.

Hell, for all we know all they need to do to make it happen is create a copy of the skill tree, reset everyone to zero (during the campaign only) and increase the training speed. It would be a good campaign IMO and it would be fun to reach deeper in the skill tree if only temporarily.

This would solve another issue of the skill training that is its damned slow speed. Like i said the skill training has a lot of issues but they arent its passive nature.

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