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touchmybow

My gripes with the faction based system

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I'm ok with being divided by faction/race. What I have a problem with is when the faction/race has to come together and work towards a unified goal. I don't like teaming with the masses, its too open. It's like joining an open recruitment clan, and I don't join those. It seems much fighting and bickering will come from this type of system, where one clan might start calling out another clan for their incompetence, etc, because the faction/race system makes you fight towards to same goal and at some point you're effected by each others worth, or lack of worth. The last thing you want are two clans fighting that are on the same side. I much prefer a world where your objective is not a generic faction/race objective, so every clan and individual can choose his own companions and fight towards their own goal, by themselves and with their own friends, and they can welcome and unwelcome people as they please.

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4 minutes ago, touchmybow said:

uh oh, i don't like when games have too many rulesets. It shows lack of vision and depth. :(

or it could be similar to FPS games where they have different rulesets for different campaigns and players can pick the variety they want to play. Adds spice to the game to have options.

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Touchmybow,  it seems that maybe you are unhappy with the direction of the game (based on your recent posts).

Really, several community members have responded showing you the wisdom behind the decisions that have been made. 

Overall,  the design of CF is a boon to old school MMORPG players (like myself).

Let me put some of your concerns to rest--I think your looking at just the potential negative.  Past the minor flaws because the general design definitely delivers.

Lastly, even though I have some small gripes, I am very excited about CF, including/especially the faction based system.   

 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Quote

 What I have a problem with is when the faction/race has to come together and work towards a unified goal.

That's like the whole point tho :D. What do you think a guild is anyway? Bunch of people coming together to work towards a unified goal. An faction/alliance is just an extension of that. This system worked fine for DAoC and Warhammer (although there was bickering, that's just how things are). On merlin during the prime of DAoC we literally took all the relics within the duration of 8 hours from the rival factions because we worked together to accomplish it; a feat that at the time was unheard of.

 

Besides, if you don't like being part of an all-encompassing faction you'll have an option to play on a looser rule set with just GvG (which will ultimately turn in to alliance vs. alliance; only slightly different from FvF).

You'll have to come to the realization as many here did that in crowfall you're simply a cog in the wheel. An individual has less power in this game than a guild, and that's done by design.

Edited by Helix

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the current campaign is just for testing. more options will be available at soft launch and retail release.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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19 hours ago, touchmybow said:

uh oh, i don't like when games have too many rulesets. It shows lack of vision and depth. :(

You're kidding me right?

Having more options to play in a single game means it has a lack of vision and depth?

You probably play games with a lot of different rule sets and don't even know it. Even more so if you mostly play MMOs.


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22 hours ago, touchmybow said:

uh oh, i don't like when games have too many rulesets. It shows lack of vision and depth. :(

to me it shows that they understand their audience. The game is pvp oriented. But their audience likes light pvp to brutal pvp so there are rulesets where everyone can choose their difficulty setting. If anything it shows they understand that forcing a certain type of gameplay onto a vast majority of people won't get them anywhere so they opened it up a bit. 


You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

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10 minutes ago, Thyr said:

 

to me it shows that they understand their audience. The game is pvp oriented. But their audience likes light pvp to brutal pvp so there are rulesets where everyone can choose their difficulty setting. If anything it shows they understand that forcing a certain type of gameplay onto a vast majority of people won't get them anywhere so they opened it up a bit. 

It's more like light and lighter pvp now, there is no brutal in this game.  Not very logical of them to cut off that group of gamers but oh well.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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22 hours ago, touchmybow said:

uh oh, i don't like when games have too many rulesets. It shows lack of vision and depth. :(

Sigh.  Is there anything you do like?

 

9 minutes ago, Thyr said:

 

to me it shows that they understand their audience. The game is pvp oriented. But their audience likes light pvp to brutal pvp so there are rulesets where everyone can choose their difficulty setting. If anything it shows they understand that forcing a certain type of gameplay onto a vast majority of people won't get them anywhere so they opened it up a bit. 

I don't like it when people assume that what they want is the only way to do things and that most people agree with them.

I actually think your opinion is in the very marginal minority.  Let's see a new popular example of a very limited feature game.

Oh look, 8 possible combinations of rulesets, and more to come.

drEtWqp.png

 

 

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9 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Sigh.  Is there anything you do like?

 

I don't like it when people assume that what they want is the only way to do things and that most people agree with them.

I actually think your opinion is in the very marginal minority.  Let's see a new popular example of a very limited feature game.

Oh look, 8 possible combinations of rulesets, and more to come.

drEtWqp.png

 

 

Great thing about PUBG is that it ignored all the cries of the third person allstars and added first person for the more aware players.  That's the equivalent of CF doing something like adding full loot ffa full friendly fire dregs (which they won't).  Unsurprisingly all of the top streamers and most skilled pubg players gravitated towards the most skillful settings, taking the lesser players with them because those lesser players have something to aspire to.  

PUBG would not be as popular if it did not add FPP only mode, just like CF will not be as popular if it doesn't give hardcore PvPers a ruleset to enjoy.  


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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57 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Great thing about PUBG is that it ignored all the cries of the third person allstars and added first person for the more aware players.  That's the equivalent of CF doing something like adding full loot ffa full friendly fire dregs (which they won't).  Unsurprisingly all of the top streamers and most skilled pubg players gravitated towards the most skillful settings, taking the lesser players with them because those lesser players have something to aspire to.  

While I wholeheartedly agree that accommodating more play-styles and preferences will only benefit the Crowfall universe, this is a serious false equivalency. The amount of changes needed for adding first-person views pales in comparison to the necessary changes to both systems and balance required for FFA friendly-fire. That being said, bring on the originally promised Dregs Campaign! 

I've read some of the discontent with abandoning some of the more hard core principles that were first suggested and seemingly forgotten. Particularly the Summoning Circle and Embargo rules. According the FAQ, these systems are still in the pipeline. Perhaps I've missed some details on permanent changes to these systems. But it appears to be more of an "out of sight, out of mind" situation for Embargo specifically. 

 

Edited by Jaynuminous

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1 hour ago, Jaynuminous said:

While I wholeheartedly agree that accommodating more play-styles and preferences will only benefit the Crowfall universe, this is a serious false equivalency. The amount of changes needed for adding first-person views pales in comparison to the necessary changes to both systems and balance required for FFA friendly-fire. That being said, bring on the originally promised Dregs Campaign! 

I've read some of the discontent with abandoning some of the more hard core principles that were first suggested and seemingly forgotten. Particularly the Summoning Circle and Embargo rules. According the FAQ, these systems are still in the pipeline. Perhaps I've missed some details on permanent changes to these systems. But it appears to be more of an "out of sight, out of mind" situation for Embargo specifically. 

 

This isn't about first person view in CF, it's about adding the hardcore settings for competitive pvpers.  And I disagree, I think it was much harder for PUBG workload wise to implement their first person mode and clean it up than it is for ACE to flip a switch on which targets can be hit by spells.  

I've championed for full friendly fire, I know what it does to the pacing and tactics of combat, to the skill-ceiling, and to players that lack skill, and it's all perfect for a hardcore campaign.  Right now the chance of full FF does not look likely at all, 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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3 hours ago, Jaynuminous said:

While I wholeheartedly agree that accommodating more play-styles and preferences will only benefit the Crowfall universe, this is a serious false equivalency. The amount of changes needed for adding first-person views pales in comparison to the necessary changes to both systems and balance required for FFA friendly-fire. That being said, bring on the originally promised Dregs Campaign! 

I've read some of the discontent with abandoning some of the more hard core principles that were first suggested and seemingly forgotten. Particularly the Summoning Circle and Embargo rules. According the FAQ, these systems are still in the pipeline. Perhaps I've missed some details on permanent changes to these systems. But it appears to be more of an "out of sight, out of mind" situation for Embargo specifically. 

 

They don't update the FAQ all that often. They wait until they have the final form of the alteration for the most part.  

They don't want to keep making new claims that ultimately get changed from the altered form.  May as well leave one piece of functionality that won't be in the game, as make a new claim that also doesn't make it into the game.

I suspect that once they have a functional game loop and enough players to justify it, they will try a Dregs campaign the way the allegedly "hard core" players want it, just to show them how infeasible and poor of a game experience it actually is. 

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20 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

They don't update the FAQ all that often. They wait until they have the final form of the alteration for the most part.  

They don't want to keep making new claims that ultimately get changed from the altered form.  May as well leave one piece of functionality that won't be in the game, as make a new claim that also doesn't make it into the game.

I suspect that once they have a functional game loop and enough players to justify it, they will try a Dregs campaign the way the allegedly "hard core" players want it, just to show them how infeasible and poor of a game experience it actually is. 

+1 minus that last part - I've come to the conclusion that it's better to just said "custardit" and try, and wait to see how it plays out... That's not to say that some things can't be fairly accurately predicted, just that there's no way of knowing for sure until it's given a fair run :) 


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6 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Sigh.  Is there anything you do like?

 

I don't like it when people assume that what they want is the only way to do things and that most people agree with them.

I actually think your opinion is in the very marginal minority.  Let's see a new popular example of a very limited feature game.

Oh look, 8 possible combinations of rulesets, and more to come.

drEtWqp.png

 

 

Peaking from behind a walls where your opponent can't see you gets no respect from me and I want that mechanic to become unpopular. The sooner, the better. That said, there will always be those that need to crutch, so right now in games you see an option. Sure some people pick FPP just because its how they like to aim, but for me personally I would not want to play on a server where people are watching me from behind walls. That's toddler pvp.

And you ask if there is anything I do like. In crowfall? Yes, I like the experimentation crafting. Quite charming. But I still feel like I'm in a WoW battleground and I don't have the greatest hopes for the warfare to pull me in.

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