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Assassin Powers and Effects - Official Discussion Thread


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21 minutes ago, Phylor.the.Jester said:

Hmm, that is pretty different than my experience. the lack of application on 25 swings was all LMB and was definitely over a longer period of time than 7 seconds

[talking about druid scimitar green orb procs on hit rather than toxins e.g. we dont know if say toxins  works on a % chance per hit or like stormcaller which instead has a 100% proc on an internal cooldown of once every ~7 seconds was my point]

Edited by Tinnis
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38 minutes ago, Phylor.the.Jester said:

Yeah, I wish I knew what the application chance is supposed to be. I generally see it around 1 out of every 5 hits applied hit but I also went on a fun streak during testing where it took 25 hits to apply.

After some testing, the proc chance is:

(1/5) * BC

Most of us know by now that in Crowfall BC is of course not a constant.  It has many factors and it changes dynamically with the current situation.  In theory, this creates a smoother feeling while playing.  I have spent some time evaluating BC, but even using differential equations, you cannot be conclusive as to how this behaves in game.  BC also seems to change depending on which power you are talking about.  Interestingly, the integral of BC from 0 to soon, is in fact 815, which (coincidentally?) is the address of their office.

For those less technical people, BC = Blair Coefficient.

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23 minutes ago, elvo said:

 

relevant again?

Same question... ahhh so many memories for vanilla wow rogue.  Dead zone kiting people, playing the inferior hemo spec with a blue AV hammer because it had a super slow attack speed and attacks weren't normalized for hemo.  So much finesse.  

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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53 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

[talking about druid scimitar green orb procs on hit rather than toxins e.g. we dont know if say toxins  works on a % chance per hit or like stormcaller which instead has a 100% proc on an internal cooldown of once every ~7 seconds was my point]

oh ok, I totally misunderstood!

C4sIZDW.gif

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37 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

After some testing, the proc chance is:

(1/5) * BC

Most of us know by now that in Crowfall BC is of course not a constant.  It has many factors and it changes dynamically with the current situation.  In theory, this creates a smoother feeling while playing.  I have spent some time evaluating BC, but even using differential equations, you cannot be conclusive as to how this behaves in game.  BC also seems to change depending on which power you are talking about.  Interestingly, the integral of BC from 0 to soon, is in fact 815, which (coincidentally?) is the address of their office.

For those less technical people, BC = Blair Coefficient.

dang, I forgot to account for the BC. Rookie mistake by me

C4sIZDW.gif

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Hello!  It's your friendly neighborhood rogue-hater back with another diatribe!

 

The Good

The animations are lovely.  Nice work.  Especially the leaping.  Very cool.

 

The Stupid

It looks like someone forgot to put on their creativity hat and put on their nostalgia hat by mistake.  The assassin is nothing more than a reskinned vanilla-WoW rogue.  This is not innovation;  this is plagiarism.

Stun locks?  Check.

One-button stealth?  Check.

Backstabs on stunned opponents?  Check.

 

Missed opportunities?  Double-check.

Rogue-lovers get everything they ever adored about the One True Class.

 

Instead of moving past the ol' Tank/Heals/DPS trifecta, the Assassin looks to be enthusiastically embracing it.

It doesn't have to be this way.  There are innovative new ways to approach stealth and ambush.  Stun locking could be thrown into the garbage heap (where it belongs) and replaced with something that's actually fun.

But I get the feeling that there's really no point discussing new ideas when it comes to the Assassin.  Someone loves their favorite class.  Just make it like everyone else did and ship it.

Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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I wouldn't exactly call it plagiarism, but otherwise yeah I do wish that were a bit more creative (also stun-locks, I doubt we really get, as that really mean you get killed before you can get out of the stun, I doubt that will be that easy to achieve), but yeah the long duration stun at least should maybe be on 2-3 in on a chain skill, that way you could try and get the hell away, or CC back before they get to that skill

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I'm not worried of stun locks. 

I'm worried of CC locks in general. This is just another example of far too much access to CC in CrowdcontrolFall. If any class should have stunlocks its a DPS class like a stealther and in exchange it should be squishier then all others.

I imagine all classes will continue to evolve into meaningless forms with no clear way to distinguish them as "Tanks", "Support", or "DPS". The lines will be blurred, and I guess thats the direction they want to go. I'd rather see more prominent roles exist in this game, and disciplines design to blur them. Instead the classes themselves are formless, and disciplines just make them puddles of overlapping goo.

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14 minutes ago, Scree said:

I'm not worried of stun locks. 

I'm worried of CC locks in general. This is just another example of far too much access to CC in CrowdcontrolFall. If any class should have stunlocks its a DPS class like a stealther and in exchange it should be squishier then all others.

I imagine all classes will continue to evolve into meaningless forms with no clear way to distinguish them as "Tanks", "Support", or "DPS". The lines will be blurred, and I guess thats the direction they want to go. I'd rather see more prominent roles exist in this game, and disciplines design to blur them. Instead the classes themselves are formless, and disciplines just make them puddles of overlapping goo.

at least this is single target rather than all the other AoEs.

curious to see what "CC" the frostweaver might bring...

[like generally there is more AoE cc than single target cc for the most part]

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7 hours ago, chancellor said:

I'd like to see more types of toxins, like:

  • Soporific Toxin - Makes the victim sleepy. All CC durations are extended (doubled).
  • Hunger Toxin - Halves hunger resistance and doubles food consumption on the chicken ticker.

I would most definitely not like to see those!  The second one especially is pure griefing as far as I am concerned.  

The class looks solid, if very familiar, and will probably be the most popular class in the game.  

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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2 minutes ago, Regulus said:

I would most definitely not like to see those!  The first one especially is pure griefing as far as I am concerned.  

The class looks solid, if very familiar, and will probably be the most popular class in the game.  

Ehh? how would it be anymore greafing, than say someone applying and armor break?, Sure if you could apply it on your allies it would be griefing, but can hardly call it griefing when you harm your enemy in some way

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Just now, Gummiel said:

Ehh? how would it be anymore greafing, than say someone applying and armor break?, Sure if you could apply it on your allies it would be griefing, but can hardly call it griefing when you harm your enemy in some way

Sorry, I meant the second one (hunger one)!  Making someone have to go deal with apple crapola would be extraordinarily irritating, far beyond armor break.  Just think about running around with only daggers and that poison tagging as many people as you could.  

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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My only complaint after using the Assassin kit on Test is racial choices.

Only  Nethari and Half Elf on Test

 

Waiting on high elf and Fae BUT...

What if you hate elves? and i'm not a fan of nethari...

I would play Fae but they are still grouped with elves..

Elves Suck and should be all burned at the stake.

 

We need Human, and probably Stoneborn added as choices.

www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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I'm glad to see you haven't changed much/anything to do with the assassin since its info release, the whole wrath cc rogue + fae double jump / glide (pmuch a wrath rogue & dh mix) is what's keeping me around to watch Crowfall. Some people are obviously seeing this as a negative but it's a big positive imo. It's been a long time since an MMO made a certain type of class and you've made it, even if it is somewhat similar to its counterparts. All that matters in the end is if the class is worth playing and that's decided by its ability to compete and whether or not it's fun.

Another note is people talking about "stealth shouldn't be as fast as base movement speed" clearly hasn't played rogue in wow in the last few expansions. There's a reason why the base movement speed was increased and that reason is just as meaningful in Crowfall, balance. That being said balance is a fickle thing and if increasing base movement speed with things such as out of combat ms racials also increases stealth ms then I can see some issues.

The exposed mechanic is very well done, bravo.

Ability / Mechanic related questions;

  1. Is it possible to disengage, 180 and engage away from an enemy or does it require a sort of soft target? I would personally prefer the first option as it just adds more possibilities/depth to the class.
  2. What is the internal reset time of the stab combo? The numbers are quite close where resetting is nearly as powerful as a full combo in some scenarios mainly due to the 60% second attack. A full combo is 320% whereas if you're able to reset these 3 stabs will deal 300%. I can understand in a consistent fight holding lmb will provide more dps if you hit each and every attack but these are things that all alter balance.
  3. As an overall mechanic are combos limited to a gcd? It looks somewhat unsatisfying to watch someone stand idle while waiting for engage usage after a disengage.
  4. Does shadowstep blind on use or on stealth? The tooltip says you enter stealth instantly but by watching the video there's a wind up anim?

Toxin related questions;

  1. He doesn't talk about it in the video at all but does curse weapon allow for double toxin-type diffusions if you're not already running disease? Or does it just do additional damage / change your damage type?
  2. Is it possible to hotkey toxic items themselves so you can swap between toxins during fight or is that something you wish to stay away from / progress towards?#
  3. Is the poison toxic "aqua splash" colour a final thing? Using a similar colour to nature could slightly confuse players who like to play based on visual cues. I know there are leaves on the nature toxin but when you're playing the game in a non-test environment it's quite easy for your mind to skip little visual cues like that.
  4. How do toxins scale?
  5. Is it a Nature Toxin or Earth Toxin?

Other questions;

  1. I've mentioned before on another thread but are tooltips subject to change in terms of information provided? "SEVERE POISON" doesn't exactly explain a lot.
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10 hours ago, Regulus said:

I would most definitely not like to see those!  The second one especially is pure griefing as far as I am concerned.  

The class looks solid, if very familiar, and will probably be the most popular class in the game.

Haha well the effects he chose are a little overboard but i think the devs should keep a eye open and introduce as many poison types as they can.

I think a poison type that increases cooldown could work with the correct values.

Another along the same line is a interruption poison that applies a super short (1 sec?) supress. Making people miss their combos would be so satisfying. As far as being OP goes i think it would be okay since it require quite a bit of timing for it to work.

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