Dwartii

Dealing with gathering loot theft within faction

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We could use an ability to deal with someone with in our faction who is stealing your gathering loot.

Either ability to pvp and take back stolen loot or the loot drops are only accessible by the gatherer or a member of the group the gatherer belongs to.

Over the weekend there were multiple instances where rouge players were ninja looting stuff they did not process. All we could do was yell at people in chat but trolls be trolling so that didn't really do anything. 

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I do not want to see ACE even try to manage this.  This is a social problem, not a programming problem.

Now I would be on board with them dropping the entire doober dropping mechanics and just drop them in the inventory of whoever last hit the node, because frankly I think it's unfun and not at all a good mechanic. That would not stop ninja looting of droppen enemies.

But ACE acting as world cop, no thanks.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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This will be a huge problem in crowded areas on faction servers. Having a larger map will help with spacing players out from faction members they don't want to be around, but the ultimate way to handle this is to play on a Guild or FFA Campaign.

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2 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I do not want to see ACE even try to manage this.  This is a social problem, not a programming problem.

Given the intent of the Faction system, it is a game design problem.

I just hope that whatever ACE does to ensure Faction play works as intended doesn't negatively impact Faction-less campaigns.

I actually like doobers and I'd actually like to see them used for looting of players as well. Explosions of doobers on the battlefield would be hilarious.

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Just now, soulein said:

This will be a huge problem in crowded areas on faction servers. Having a larger map will help with spacing players out from faction members they don't want to be around, but the ultimate way to handle this is to play on a Guild or FFA Campaign.

This.  Also on social servers each faction should handle thieves internally.  

If I recall correctly, this whole throne war thing means that towns will have leaders, and leaders will be able to set rules, so if you find some thieves or players otherwise trolling, say spies or smugglers for example,  I do believe that the town leader will be able to mark those players as KOS to the thrall guards, even if they are in the same faction.

I would like to see a way for people to de-faction a player and basically cut them off from all factions in the world. 

 

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

This.  Also on social servers each faction should handle thieves internally.  

If I recall correctly, this whole throne war thing means that towns will have leaders, and leaders will be able to set rules, so if you find some thieves or players otherwise trolling, say spies or smugglers for example,  I do believe that the town leader will be able to mark those players as KOS to the thrall guards, even if they are in the same faction.

I would like to see a way for people to de-faction a player and basically cut them off from all factions in the world. 

 

I'm actually very curious to know how building and city ownership will work on a faction server.

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2 minutes ago, Jah said:

Given the intent of the Faction system, it is a game design problem.

I just hope that whatever ACE does to ensure Faction play works as intended doesn't negatively impact Faction-less campaigns.

I actually like doobers and I'd actually like to see them used for looting of players as well. Explosions of doobers on the battlefield would be hilarious.

Ok, that would be worth it to see.  Make a (large) section of a person's inventory "encumbered", and anything in that space gets doobered when they get killed.

That might be worth keeping the chasing a kid with a open box of cheerios with a vacuum doober model.

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8 minutes ago, soulein said:

I'm actually very curious to know how building and city ownership will work on a faction server.

Finally!!!! A question worthy of taking to the dev forum.  I'll post and see what kind of answer if any we can get at next months Q&A.

Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

Been seeing a bit of loot ninja being made possible by faction settings, so how will rulership, towns, territory, etc will work on faction based worlds?

Who will set the Thrall guard rules, KOS, shop and crafting station access, etc?

Will someone be able to kick spies, thieves and smugglers out of the faction/cities? If so, what happens to them?

Who will be on the throne, of the faction throne war simulator?

We will see what/if they have any answers yet.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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24 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Finally!!!! A question worthy of taking to the dev forum.  I'll post and see what kind of answer if any we can get at next months Q&A.

We will see what/if they have any answers yet.

Yeah, it seems like once the faction takes a keep, everyone in the faction get's access to it, which leaves us with unanswered questions:

We know that forts, keeps and cities will be in pre-set locations on faction maps, but what about houses and buildings? Will those be in fixed locations within the keep? If so, who owns them particularly? Who has the right to build crafting stations or slot vendors and thralls into them? Will people on faction servers have to manually trade all items because privately owned vendors can't be a thing on faction campaigns?

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2 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I do not want to see ACE even try to manage this.  This is a social problem, not a programming problem.

I am not sure about this. If it was a pickpocketing thing or a game mechanic i wouldnt mind but here it is a clear case of people exploiting the loose game rules to act like a jerk and walk away scot-free. The act of stealing isnt as much of a problem as the fact that they can do it without consequences.

In another thread we saw a player lock another inside a building using the faction immunity and colision detection. Until that player logged out. That is serious enough for ACE to step out IMO.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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2 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I do not want to see ACE even try to manage this.  This is a social problem, not a programming problem.

Now I would be on board with them dropping the entire doober dropping mechanics and just drop them in the inventory of whoever last hit the node, because frankly I think it's unfun and not at all a good mechanic. That would not stop ninja looting of droppen enemies.

But ACE acting as world cop, no thanks.

I don't think I was asking for ACE to be world cops I was offering an option to allow us to police ourselves. 

The doober dropping into personal inventory is a better solution and the one I would prefer. We need something to deal with that one guy that is a hooligan in another way that yelling at them in chat cause that just ain't gonna accomplish anything unless action can be taken against a player it will keep happening over and over again. 

I would think first hit / last hit or damage % mechanic would be easier long term to manage but I am not a game dev.  

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I dont understand why they cant just allow FF inside factions (Like the dregs will have). I dont wanna bring another FF thread to life but just allowing players to fight whoever they want would solve the problem.

If they want to keep griefing to a minimum (the only reason i see for faction immunity) and maintain the faction immunity they can activate it only in some specific situations. Like around a faction owned fort/keep or during a siege.

Some would call those safe areas and call fault but it would be a improvement to the easily exploitable faction Immunity.

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Yeah I don't want that whole FF thing to start up again.

If the system working as intended that's fine but I think it could use some refinement.  

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12 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I dont understand why they cant just allow FF inside factions (Like the dregs will have). I dont wanna bring another FF thread to life but just allowing players to fight whoever they want would solve the problem.

If they want to keep griefing to a minimum (the only reason i see for faction immunity) and maintain the faction immunity they can activate it only in some specific situations. Like around a faction owned fort/keep or during a siege.

Some would call those safe areas and call fault but it would be a improvement to the easily exploitable faction Immunity.

If Factions allowed friendly fire what would the purpose of the Faction be? Isn't it just an FFA at that point?

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13 minutes ago, Jah said:

If Factions allowed friendly fire what would the purpose of the Faction be? Isn't it just an FFA at that point?

Not really.

The faction worlds should be more than that. Mechanics should emphasize the factions (like making keeps safe areas to every faction member), the CW Objective should also require all players to work together and stuff like that. The difference between those should be bigger than whatever the faction immunity brings to the table.

Honestly the Faction Immunity is more of a restriction than a mechanic. Just because we are of the same faction doesnt mean we dont want/need to fight each other. This a PvP game so fighting is what we are here for.

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Just now, BarriaKarl said:

Honestly the Faction Immunity is more of a restriction than a mechanic. Just because we are of the same faction doesnt mean we dont want/need to fight each other. This a PvP game so fighting is what we are here for.

Well, I don't plan to play Faction campaigns, so I can't speak for the people who do, but I think they generally don't want their Faction members ganking them. Fighting their own faction is not what "they are here for."

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5 minutes ago, Jah said:

but I think they generally don't want their Faction members ganking them. Fighting their own faction is not what "they are here for."

in general no but if they are ninjaing loot drops from fellow faction players there should be a way to discourage that behavior currently it's next to impossible to retaliate. 

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3 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

I do not want to see ACE even try to manage this.  This is a social problem, not a programming problem.

 

 

59 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

I am not sure about this. If it was a pickpocketing thing or a game mechanic i wouldnt mind but here it is a clear case of people exploiting the loose game rules to act like a jerk and walk away scot-free. The act of stealing isnt as much of a problem as the fact that they can do it without consequences.

In another thread we saw a player lock another inside a building using the faction immunity and colision detection. Until that player logged out. That is serious enough for ACE to step out IMO.

I was over broad, and did not explain myself well.

There are social problems, and game mechanic problems, and this is the kind of issue that has very blurry lines. 

For example, doobers drop randomly around the world when a node is harvested and have to be picked up.  Organizing how and who gets to pick them up is a social problem. Enemies might want to interrupt that process and start a fight, or stealth sneak in and steal doobers in the middle of a harvest for example. If ACE want's to remove that social problem from the game, the answer is to design the mechanic so that no problem exists, such as having the last hit user get all the doobers in inventory.

What ACE I think intends on doing is giving us the tools to police things ourselves.  No ACE Cop's because we become our own cops.  So for example in relation to the FF rules, perhaps a command that a player can use to "declare as hostile", any faction player /hostile on 'playername'.  Only one has to declare it, both players know it is going to happen, and a 30-60 second countdown timer starts which at the end of FF rules are out the window until BOTH players issue a command of /hostile off 'playername'.

Then in the case of all the examples I have seen, players could self police.  Mr Doober Thief will instantly get himself flagged as permanently hostile to all in the mining group and had better run his arse out of there before getting taken out.

A tool like that could also be used to set up friendly battles between same faction players, in addition to being a policing tool.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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15 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

So for example in relation to the FF rules, perhaps a command that a player can use to "declare as hostile", any faction player /hostile on 'playername'.  Only one has to declare it, both players know it is going to happen, and and 30-60 second countdown timer starts which at the end of FF rules are out the window until BOTH players issue a command of /hostile off 'playername'.

Then in the case of all the examples I have seen, players could self police.  Mr Doober Thief will instantly get himself flagged as permanently hostile to all in the mining group and had better run his arse out of there before getting taken out.

A tool like that could also be used to set up friendly battles between same faction players, in addition to being a policing tool.

I thought about something similar with a forced duel option. But then i though that people would exploit that to kill faction members anyway so why not just allow it from the start.

The 60 secs window would be a improvement though. At least players would have some time to react and not just be backstabbed which, like someone pointed out before, is the main reason faction immunity exists.

Edited by BarriaKarl

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4 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

What ACE I think intends on doing is giving us the tools to police things ourselves.  No ACE Cop's because we become our own cops.  So for example in relation to the FF rules, perhaps a command that a player can use to "declare as hostile", any faction player /hostile on 'playername'.  Only one has to declare it, both players know it is going to happen, and and 30-60 second countdown timer starts which at the end of FF rules are out the window until BOTH players issue a command of /hostile off 'playername'.

Then in the case of all the examples I have seen, players could self police.  Mr Doober Thief will instantly get himself flagged as permanently hostile to all in the mining group and had better run his arse out of there before getting taken out.

A tool like that could also be used to set up friendly battles between same faction players, in addition to being a policing tool.

I see being labeled as perma hostile a potential in that scenario. I think this mechanic is close to a potential solution but a person could use it as a griefing mechanic also. I see this kind of thing in BDO and guild prema decking on other guilds for months.  

Stealing is way to easy and it's almost impossible to do anything about it.

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