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VIKINGNAIL

What do you think about removing doobers?

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I think the game would be better without doobers.  It would most likely help performance, even if only a tiny bit, every little bit helps, and I personally don't see the real gameplay/fun benefits to having them.

What do you think?  What are the benefits to going the doober route.  

To me the benefit would be that they can be openly looted, but on any campaign where that element would be important I would think players would be able to kill other players if they wanted their loot anyway.  

Any campaign where you can't kill another player for their loot opens itself up to ninjalooting without repercussion because of hardcoded factions/friendlies.  

Perhaps I am just missing some sort of huge gameplay benefit to doobers though.  What are the benefits of it over just inserting loot directly into the inventory?

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Started playing yesterday, and honestly the most confusing aspect of this game to me, after only a few hours of playing was why these "doobers" are in the game. What purpose do they serve?

I played other games like Conan Exiles and they are of a similar theme, hit the rock, it breaks, you get items.

Why in this game do they fall on the floor, why do I have to run around and collect them with additional lag that feels unnatural, can other people pick them up, can I pick other peoples up? WHAT IS GOING ON.

If it is an aesthetic thing, just have them fall and then disappear and enter your bag after a seconds delay, maybe someone watching you noticed you got a Golden Apple and now wants to follow you until you are vulnerable and kill you for it - which wouldn't be prompted without seeing a visual drop.

Maybe its a late game - group farming thing that i haven't experienced yet, but wholly confounded by "doobers" as a new player. 

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I agree they are more trouble than they are worth. In fact I very much question their worth in general.

I know what they are probably trying to simulate, some weak parallel "Jackpot" event where you get to see piles of loot spraying into the air like a slot machine dumping out quarters.  The fact is audible cues are enough, and all modern slot machines "click" credits on wins rather than dump coins, and they certainly NEVER dumped them on the carpet for you to run around and pick them up.

The visuals and counts could simply be moved to the HUD view of the player.  Empyrion - Galactic Survival has mining, and it just puts mined resources into your inventory with a visual report, and I found that model much more satisfying.  It also has another addvantage in that you get a count as it happens, does not interrupt your focus on mining, run you out of buff timers while you scramble around trying to pick things up, and does not require you to waste clicks to open your inventory every node to see what you got.

It would also have the added advantage of leaving the distribution of earnings in the hands of the person who "earned" them by swinging a tool, rather than having to figure out who picked up what and how much everyone got.

I also remember a Q&A where they describe things that add load to the system and "creating objects" was one of the biggest hits.  It could be seen in early development that every time you popped a large node with plenty of doobers, the whole game would stutter under the load of making them.

Frankly they are a pain and to me add zero fun.  You pop them, have to run around after them, sometimes they slide down a hill, or INTO an object where you can't get them before they expire, etc, etc, etc. If they want loot ninja sneakiness, put that in PvP stealth and pickpocket mechanics, not in chasing around a toddler with an open box of cheerios with a vacuum.

It's a now crappy old idea, and I think it's time to put it out to pasture. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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1 minute ago, randle10 said:

Started playing yesterday, and honestly the most confusing aspect of this game to me, after only a few hours of playing was why these "doobers" are in the game. What purpose do they serve?

I played other games like Conan Exiles and they are of a similar theme, hit the rock, it breaks, you get items.

Why in this game do they fall on the floor, why do I have to run around and collect them with additional lag that feels unnatural, can other people pick them up, can I pick other peoples up? WHAT IS GOING ON.

If it is an aesthetic thing, just have them fall and then disappear and enter your bag after a seconds delay, maybe someone watching you noticed you got a Golden Apple and now wants to follow you until you are vulnerable and kill you for it - which wouldn't be prompted without seeing a visual drop.

Maybe its a late game - group farming thing that i haven't experienced yet, but wholly confounded by "doobers" as a new player. 

To me the only reasons I can think of are that visually people enjoy seeing a fountain of doobers spring out with their loot, much like a few other modern games these days, but is the performance impact and other bugs related to doobers really worth that over a simple system that places it into your inventory?  

From a looting perspective doobers can be ninjalooted, but there are only 2 scenarios for that.  Either someone can ninjaloot and you can't attack them (design flaw) or they can ninjaloot and you can attack them, in which case why not just have it go directly into inventory anyway and if people want the loot so badly they can fight each other.  


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Instead of just scrapping it entirely it might be better to create a vacuum auto collect mechanic. Make it slow enough that you can see the drops but make them come to you fast enough so that you dont need to gather them all  yourself.

The doober idea is cool. I mean, seeing what you got and that doober fountain is better and more interactive than having to open your inventory to see what you got latter. The real problem is having to run around 30 secs chasing a doober that somehow was thrown 5 miles away.

The vacuum idea was brought up some time ago but was shot down by some. I myself dont remeber if i supported it or not. If the doobers are being a problem we could at least try it before trying another mechanics.

Edited by BarriaKarl
stupid grammar errors

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6 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

Instead of just scrapping it entirely it might be better to create a vaccum auto collect mechanic. Make it slow enough that you can see the drops but make them come to you fast enough so that you dont need to gather them all  yourself.

The doober idea is cool. I mean, seeing what you got and that doober fountain is better and more interactive than having to open your inventory to see what you got latter. The real problem is having to run around 30 secs chasing a doober that somehow was thrown 5 miles away.

The vacuum idea was brought up some time ago but was shot down for some. I myself dont remeber if i supported it or not. If the doobers are being a problem we could at least try it before trying another mechanics.

I could support that change. It's obvious the doobers exist physically, and are affected by terrain and the gravity plane.  If they could be changed so that gravity for them pointed to the player that popped them, that might be enough to let the existing system work.

(I really liked the visuals from the Ready Player One trailers of coins floating towards the players. The featurette with them getting sucked into a machine in the delorean was awesome.)  

That is provided the system requirements of making all those objects are not as heavy as I think they are.  I think they are recycling objects now to take some pressure off, but moving forward I have to wonder if with a real population there will be enough made objects to recycle, or if that is enough resource mitigation.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Just now, KrakkenSmacken said:

I have no idea what you just tried to say.

On the live stream today that's what Blair said. Doobers that drop will be lootable by the group that harvested them. Meaning someone of the same faction can't take em or someone of a different guild can't take them.

No protection cooldown was mentioned.


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Making them part of the group harvesting..   Sure.

Removing Dizzy down to those harvesting?... ok Sure.

Making stealthed players being able to pick them up and stay stealthed?  If a group is waiting for the harvesters to finish and then plan their attack.  A stealthed “carry” makes this element of the game rather void.

 

When compiling everything it sounds a lot like the harvesters are being given every possible tool to bring their “ressources” home, and that those whom try to hinder them from doing so, are having as many tools removed as possible.


Just saying : 

Stealthed -Carry - Teleport to Beachhead every 30 min... 

So what is it we’re PvPing over.  ATM the ones chasing those venturing out in groups are being countered on every possible level.


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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I thought that those doobers were meant to somehow having a need to secure the harvest spot entirely so to say. I mean if only the group (and individual if not in a group?) can loot them why have them in the first place. I always found it interessting to actually have to worry about your faction, etc. since they could loot them. So in order to play things safe you have to somehow protect them entirely making even harvesting more pain in the a-- than it already was or is (<- im not a harvest so pardon for the little rant here). 

If it is just a visual thing I'd say keep it if performance will not be affected. 

But right now it doesn't really sound all that awesome. Also what Soulreaver said.

 


You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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14 minutes ago, Soulreaver said:

A stealthed “carry” makes this element of the game rather void.

It might be true that a stealther can be the carrier. But I believe stealthing in 5.4 and beyond takes up stamina.

Also, if people are going to gank harvesting groups, they're just going to attack them anyways to get the potential loot on them plus the resources and unharvested nodes in the area.

There's plenty of reasons to pvp.

Edited by entityofsin

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4 minutes ago, entityofsin said:

But I believe stealthing in 5.4 and beyond takes up stamina.

It doesn't.

It only takes stamina for Guinecean racial Burrow and Wood Elf racial Camo. Assassin and Duelist stealth takes no stamina.


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Just now, Jah said:

It doesn't.

It only takes stamina for Guinecean racial Burrow and Wood Elf racial Camo. Assassin and Duelist stealth takes no stamina.

wwwwwaaaaaat... da... lol

Okay then.. I thought that change was to reflect all stealth mechanics.


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36 minutes ago, entityofsin said:

On the live stream today that's what Blair said. Doobers that drop will be lootable by the group that harvested them. Meaning someone of the same faction can't take em or someone of a different guild can't take them.

No protection cooldown was mentioned.

Personally, I HATE that approach. 

  • Giving magical ownership to parcels and buildings that could have been paid for with $$$ to protect players real money, good move.
  • Giving magical ownership of any in game gathered assets not actually being held by players for whatever reason, even temporarily, seems like a total waste of developer time. More states for doobers to be in, more possible issues and unexplored relationships to cause conflicts, etc.

What is it that is so attractive for ACE/Blair on this idea of doober chasing anyway?  I don't get it. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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2 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

What is it that is so attractive for ACE/Blair on this idea of doobers anyway?  I don't get it.

I don't know. Don't really care either.

Whether the items go straight into someone's inventory or drop on the ground to get collected by someone is pretty irrelevant to me.

If I am in a group with my guild and we're running up on another group at a resource node, we're gonna attack them if we think we can take em. We want their gear and crafting mats at the end of the day and will take em if we can. Pushing them out of the area is also a plus if we end up doing that.

It isn't like it's going to change how much pvp is going to happen. Even in games like Albion Online where the crafting mats are just placed into the inventory doesn't dismiss people from attacking you for all those crafting mats and your gear. If anything, it has made people want to hunt you down even harder for anything they can get.

If you don't want an enemy player, faction or guild getting all those resources then do something about it. How doobers drop in the game is pretty irrelevant. A graphic visual of what has dropped would be nice though regardless.


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now the harvesters will be disgruntled when they have to trade the raw materials to someone to haul it back to base. This will allow the buffs to drop off.

if doobers are now locked to a group/person then they need to have weight. if a person is overweight they can't move!


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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2 hours ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Giving magical ownership of any in game gathered assets not actually being held by players for whatever reason, even temporarily, seems like a total waste of developer time. More states for doobers to be in, more possible issues and unexplored relationships to cause conflicts, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't think there is an option, at least if you are going with Faction campaigns. I've had it happen, I am sure others have as well. A person of the same faction hangs around leeching doobers, giving the miner/skinner/logger little recourse.

If there were only ever to be a FFA/Dregs Campaign, I would agree with you absolutely.


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6 minutes ago, armegeddon said:

Unfortunately, I don't think there is an option, at least if you are going with Faction campaigns. I've had it happen, I am sure others have as well. A person of the same faction hangs around leeching doobers, giving the miner/skinner/logger little recourse.

If there were only ever to be a FFA/Dregs Campaign, I would agree with you absolutely.

Might have missed it, it's on a previous page, but there is another more useful solution. A new ability to toggle same faction players hostile.

/hostile on krakkensmacken

Both players get a countdown timer that it's going to happen, and 60 seconds later both players are now hostile to each other.

That would turn it into a PvP issue.  See someone hanging around, mark em hostile and take them out if they don't leave.

This "fix" only deals with this single problem, doober scooping.  It's doesn't deal with door blocking, or other ass hattery you can get up to when your completely invulnerable to someone.

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1 minute ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Might have missed it, it's on a previous page, but there is another more useful solution. A new ability to toggle same faction players hostile.

/hostile on krakkensmacken

Both players get a countdown timer that it's going to happen, and 60 seconds later both players are now hostile to each other.

That would turn it into a PvP issue.  See someone hanging around, mark em hostile and take them out if they don't leave.

This "fix" only deals with this single problem, doober scooping.  It's doesn't deal with door blocking, or other ass hattery you can get up to when your completely invulnerable to someone.

......I LIKE IT!:D


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