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srathor

Crafters I feel sorry for all of us.

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3 minutes ago, Jah said:

If options were removed because nobody was using them, that is pretty silly. People weren't using them because the numbers were so tiny that there was no perceivable gain from using them.

I mean we just got Poison ... how can we loose Damage Bonus Poison before we test it? we have tested the others but the numbers made then un-impactfull not the concept/design 


Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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10 minutes ago, Brightdance said:

I will assume this was in errr and go out Pvping until it's fixed.

You assume this was in err?

Are you new to all this? Seems par for the course... 

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5 minutes ago, Pest said:

You assume this was in err?

Are you new to all this? Seems par for the course... 

I've made thousands of crafted items and have an account for each major craft. I love the crafting system and I plan to spend most of my time crafting in this game. I have been here since HD so I guess its based on your perspective if I'm new or not.

I will assume that this is in error because if not I would be raging worse than facerip after they took away the  scoot jump and I hate it when I let games get to me to that extent.

My assumption will stand for now. 

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yes...   this should not pass muster to bring 5.4 to Live.   Blair should know that we haven't made anything with stats that don't work, we cannot see, or have no effect in combat.  It is plain as day that the stat amount for everything except AP and Crit Damage were so low nobody "bothered" to make them and not that the stats were uninteresting and we didn't actually want them once we could see and evaluate the effect.   It is sort of like ACE put the cart before the horse even though we didn't have horses yet and the cart has no wheels.  Please restore the crafting combinations we are used to and get them all working and we have the tools to see the results and test the effects before eliminating anything...  

Edited by Frykka

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If anything, the changes made are in the wrong direction. This thread should be about providing what we want, not what we dislike. With that said its probably a fair place to start to highlight what isn't interesting in the crafting system.

Boring Stats:

  • +Resists (you've already minimized the impact of resists with the new armor tier-ifi-cation). Getting 1% higher resists against lightning damage isn't exciting or appealing.
  • +Electric Damage (or whatever type of damage type modifiers, considering how resists have been marginalized). This +resist/+damage type stat war is insanely tedious and doesn't get people excited about crafting in the least.

Stats I Would Want To See...

  • +Stealth: It should be possible to artificially inflate this value with a well crafted set.
  • +Perception: Similarly it should be possible to counter +stealth gear sets.
  • +Far Sight: Abillity to see people farther out is invaluable for scouts, promotes the scouting role.
  • +Haste: Increase left/click base-animation speed
  • +Dodge regen: Speed up ability to use dodges faster
  • +Movement speed: I don't know why this isn't possible, it was in Shadowbane. Make the legendary gear possible of stacking an additional 5% on top of the best run speed buff in the game. 
  • +Gathering stats (some are in the game, nearly all of them should be exposed to crafters right now to allow them to fine-tune their character).
  • +Damage (duh):  Min or Max values here, or to shrink the difference between these two.
  • Cooldown ...

Where are enchanting procs or set bonuses? These should be created as a viable alternative to stat-stacking.

Why are people being shepherded into being identical to one another? None of your current crafting options really allow diversity in itemization. As some mentioned the ability to create an Assassin in full Support gear to be able to heal, is a choice that should be given to players. By minimizing the stat values you've effectively said no. You had to bake in raw support power into the default support classes just to make this stat system work for them. Why not simply roll that back to some extent and put it into itemization instead. Instead of +750 support power, make it +250 and roll the +500 into itemization budgets. This bridges the gap better, not supplanting Cleric/Druid as the best at support roles, but allowing a somewhat effective alternative should a player wish to make a healing "assassin".

Just an example.

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11 minutes ago, Scree said:

 

Stats I Would Want To See...

  • +Stealth: It should be possible to artificially inflate this value with a well crafted set.
  • +Perception: Similarly it should be possible to counter +stealth gear sets.
  • +Far Sight: Abillity to see people farther out is invaluable for scouts, promotes the scouting role.
  • +Haste: Increase left/click base-animation speed
  • +Dodge regen: Speed up ability to use dodges faster
  • +Movement speed: I don't know why this isn't possible, it was in Shadowbane. Make the legendary gear possible of stacking an additional 5% on top of the best run speed buff in the game. 
  • +Gathering stats (some are in the game, nearly all of them should be exposed to crafters right now to allow them to fine-tune their character).
  • +Damage (duh):  Min or Max values here, or to shrink the difference between these two.
  • Cooldown ...

Where are enchanting procs or set bonuses? These should be created as a viable alternative to stat-stacking.

Why are people being shepherded into being identical to one another? None of your current crafting options really allow diversity in itemization. As some mentioned the ability to create an Assassin in full Support gear to be able to heal, is a choice that should be given to players. By minimizing the stat values you've effectively said no. You had to bake in raw support power into the default support classes just to make this stat system work for them. Why not simply roll that back to some extent and put it into itemization instead. Instead of +750 support power, make it +250 and roll the +500 into itemization budgets. This bridges the gap better, not supplanting Cleric/Druid as the best at support roles, but allowing a somewhat effective alternative should a player wish to make a healing "assassin".

Just an example.

+health 
+health regeneration
+resource
+resource regeneration
and so on...

The values have been so low that the thought of putting stats on gear has been something of a joke. I'm not sure why this hasn't been communicated to anyone so far, but now we're here.

I have a sneaking suspicion that armor and weapons are going to be resist focused, while jewelry and other items will focus more on specialized stats. This may turn out fine, but we need to make sure that the stat amounts you get are appropriate and have impact. +5.34646 Attack power is a slap in the face. +25 Attack power on a low quality item is more acceptable, with higher quality items scaling up to +50, +75, and +100 seeming like a better target. If we are moving stats like health, resource, attack power, and such to jewelry, please keep make it worth our while to craft these things.

Still, armor having +damage and weapons having +resists is really strange.

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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fJQuYSP.jpg

Whoa!

Roughly the same number of combinations as there were before exist that produce a sub-component with a useful stat and not Unexpected Results. Some stats were removed and some shifted. (the Resource stat was just never going to work the way we wanted it to so it was cut and replaced with something more useful.)

Lifesteal/thorns was shifted to armor sub-comps and removed from weapon sub-comps.

Metal Bars gained some options for defensive stats. The values are set to 0.015 baseline which is why you see .02 and it pretty much stays there since we don't show that 3rd significant digit for resist (will look at exposing it)

The resource combinations are different than before! I am sure you will figure out the new combinations pretty quick.

The names were all over the place (especially for crafting/harvesting sub-components varieties) and getting out of hand so they were simplified.

The stat values are on the conservative side I agree. We are just being super cautious with them until we see the results of the next phases of crafting and factories.


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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11 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

fJQuYSP.jpg

Whoa!

Roughly the same number of combinations as there were before exist that produce a sub-component with a useful stat and not Unexpected Results. Some stats were removed and some shifted. (the Resource stat was just never going to work the way we wanted it to so it was cut and replaced with something more useful.)

Lifesteal/thorns was shifted to armor sub-comps and removed from weapon sub-comps.

Metal Bars gained some options for defensive stats. The values are set to 0.015 baseline which is why you see .02 and it pretty much stays there since we don't show that 3rd significant digit for resist (will look at exposing it)

The resource combinations are different than before! I am sure you will figure out the new combinations pretty quick.

The names were all over the place (especially for crafting/harvesting sub-components varieties) and getting out of hand so they were simplified.

The stat values are on the conservative side I agree. We are just being super cautious with them until we see the results of the next phases of crafting and factories.

I know you have a list of the combination results somewhere. You could just give us that, no?

It would avoid a lot of speculation on our part. Which is a good thing for both of us.

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17 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Some stats were removed and some shifted. (the Resource stat was just never going to work the way we wanted it to so it was cut and replaced with something more useful.)

Lifesteal/thorns was shifted to armor sub-comps and removed from weapon sub-comps.

 

I guess my question would be ... what is gained versus what is lost by adding Defensive stats to Damage items and Damage stats to Defensive items?

Long term if its a better outcome for crafters and for theory-crafting players that's great but might need someone to break it down for me :)

We get many more places to add 'stat bumps' in armor ... so moving damage items to armor gives a larger amount. Couldn't the numbers just be increased to get a reasonable amount from 9 bars of X versus 15 hardened and 5 padded stat lift locations? 

 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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15 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Whoa!

Roughly the same number of combinations as there were before exist that produce a sub-component with a useful stat and not Unexpected Results. Some stats were removed and some shifted. (the Resource stat was just never going to work the way we wanted it to so it was cut and replaced with something more useful.)

Lifesteal/thorns was shifted to armor sub-comps and removed from weapon sub-comps.

Metal Bars gained some options for defensive stats. The values are set to 0.015 baseline which is why you see .02 and it pretty much stays there since we don't show that 3rd significant digit for resist (will look at exposing it)

The resource combinations are different than before! I am sure you will figure out the new combinations pretty quick.

The names were all over the place (especially for crafting/harvesting sub-components varieties) and getting out of hand so they were simplified.

The stat values are on the conservative side I agree. We are just being super cautious with them until we see the results of the next phases of crafting and factories.

Why take away a lot of the neat things with the metal bars/weapons though? why not add cool new stats, that we have in our stat window already, we just don't have the ability to add to weapons? (i.e. + Lifesteal, HP on hit, Range Bonus, Mana Regen, Fury Regen, Stam Regen, Rage Regen, Any of the bonus damages, Heal mod, etc)

As for the resource combinations for bars... The main ingredient in most of the weapons.... I posted those in this thread, and it's rather lack luster compared to what we had before. See below for old Bar Combos:

Old_combos.jpg

As for the resists... weapons take like 9 to 12 bars to make? This means probably, at best, we are looking at getting about +1% MAYBE +2% resists from weapons... Why? Why is this necessary?

Give us fun stats on weapons, plz. And make them worth while.....


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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46 minutes ago, Destrin said:

Why take away a lot of the neat things with the metal bars/weapons though? why not add cool new stats, that we have in our stat window already, we just don't have the ability to add to weapons? (i.e. + Lifesteal, HP on hit, Range Bonus, Mana Regen, Fury Regen, Stam Regen, Rage Regen, Any of the bonus damages, Heal mod, etc)

As for the resource combinations for bars... The main ingredient in most of the weapons.... I posted those in this thread, and it's rather lack luster compared to what we had before. See below for old Bar Combos:

Old_combos.jpg

As for the resists... weapons take like 9 to 12 bars to make? This means probably, at best, we are looking at getting about +1% MAYBE +2% resists from weapons... Why? Why is this necessary?

Give us fun stats on weapons, plz. And make them worth while.....

From what I understand, the whole crafting experience revolves around what the possibilities revolving around factory rolled gear are. I just hope that new players stick around long enough to experience those possibilities. I know EVE is a big inspiration for Crowfall, but hopefully the game gives new players enough of an early exposure to, and comprehension of, the full range of game mechanics that they aren't completely lost or put off within the first couple of weeks.

Edited by soulein

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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3 minutes ago, soulein said:

From what I understand, the whole crafting experience revolves around what the possibilities revolving around factory rolled gear. I just hope that new players stick around long enough to experience those possibilities. I know EVE is a big inspiration for Crowfall, but hopefully the game gives new players enough of a early exposure to, and comprehension of, the full range of game mechanics that they aren't completely lost or put off within the first couple of weeks.

It is a gamble on who has the resilience to stick around through the abuse and not become disgusted or resentful. This sort of thinking will work but there are much better options that don't make people miserable in the process.

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this is why I use slag only. effect is the same, ttl and profit >>>>>>>>> ttl of advanced from rare resources

anyway duration is terrible, effects is useless

we need:

1) feel the difference on every stages. durability, bonuses, stats. they should matter. armor, weapon, accessory - no matter what I craft. 

2) armor pieces - they should constantly increase durability and quality of armor. not sure how it feels in 5.4, but usually it was just resource waste.

3) possibility to craft unique bonuses. for example, life steal to make unique build and make it possible for building via gear.

Edited by makkon

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Barab there is no difference for a white copper ore if it comes from a t1  or a t10 node. It is still a white copper.

Using the higher quality colors means more experimentation points are available. That does not make the rolls any better though. And with the changes to the system now it will just make the crafts harder to make. (This is a good change though)

The color only indicates the potential, not the actual power. If you have an untrained shmoe making something out of greens he is basically wasting the mats unless he gets several really really lucky rolls in his favor. But even with the rolls he will not have nearly the potential of the items power. 

A green can have 7 pips rolled right now in 5.3 Each pip can have a roll between 1.05 and 12.07 depending on luck and how you spend your pips. A master craftsman could roll all seven and get all base success and add a whopping 7.35 to the item. Sucks to be him.

A shmoe with a potions high (using all three test crafting pots) Who only has 4 pips of experiment skills can get a 4 pip amazing Yolo roll. and get 48.28 of a change to the new item. Way way better than the trained dude. 

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28 minutes ago, KanashiGD said:

I could go on about this discussion for some time, but I would rather post a suggested fix.

 

Jh2pFyW.png

 

I agree, but this game isn't designed by consensus. They do elicit feedback from the community, and they do read it.

Despite this, part of me wonders if they truly understand the feedback we are giving. There have been numerous examples in live streams where a question gets asked, but an answer is given to a wholly different question. I used to chalk up this experience to being an in-the-moment mistake, but now I'm not so sure.

I've long asked for public (ala NOT whale-forum) threads where developers pose a direction or question they are thinking about and let the community go nuts on it. They don't need to necessarily participate, though that would probably enhance the conversation quality. The simple aspect of engaging the community might reveal a thread or potential problem long before it appears in-game.

As it stands there are dozens of "experiments" that have taken place throughout Crowfall's development. These experiments have had some successes, and more often than not failures. Some caused massive delays to the game (ala Combat) and some caused the game to seemingly stop its forward momentum altogether (the race class split 5.3 version took over ~5ish months?). What always struck me about them, was how no public conversation was had prior to these shifts. So we watched as wasted months of development time flew by, only to have to spend additional time to watch them "redo" it. 

Part of me wonders if the above diagram could of saved them time, money, and backer-angst. I just don't know anymore.

Edited by Scree

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The resists on the metal bars is problematic. 
 

I was an idiot and didnt drink my Assembly All cheaty test potion so got a couple FAILURE!  FLAWED ASSEMBLY  rolls. But check all the resists on those bad boys. Especially check the bars themselves. 

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