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seventhbeacon

Solid State Drive

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SSD are good, but nothing necessary. Focus more on your real components first, drive is the last thing you should worry. Especially ssd.

your computer is as fast as its slowest component


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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your computer is as fast as its slowest component

 

I still have to jump out and crank the engine every five miles.


"Darken the moon and conceal the stars; our Light will never be extinguished." - The Tome of the First Flame

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The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home. Join us @ http://crowfall.shivtr.com

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your computer is as fast as its slowest component

You got the idea truly right, however that is not the situation. But impresively thats literally what the ones that made first computers tought of and thats the reason RAM exists.

 

When you launch something, it loads itself to RAM and it runs from RAM, drives are only for storing the information. Thats the reason drives will only increase opening / closing times. Having better drive does not impact the performance.

 

RAM is necessary because something needs to constantly communicate with processor, to send information and to recieve it, a ram is around 20x faster then an SSD. Processor does its job so fast any kind of drive is incapable of achieving the speed. Also the ram stores data in machinelanguage, which allows direct communication with processor. 

 

However since data is hold as electricity, RAMS lose all the data they hold when you cut the power off, this is why we need drives.

Edited by Navhkrin

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SATA connected SSDs are quite nice, and are getting cheaper every day.

 

Anything that has a lot of read/write will benefit from them - MMOs are notorious for thrashing HDs as the entire "world" is the 20-something gigs on the HD, and as you move around it has to be read from those files to display all of the fancy to your eyeballs.

 

SATA SSDs do have a problem though in that they still use the (I don't believe I'm saying this) "old" SATA data scheme and are therefore limited in how fast they can move data to/from the system. This is usually 1.5, 3, or 6 gigabits per second (gb/s) - depending on SATA version.

 

The new hotness is NGFF, aka M.2. These are relatively inexpensive cards that use a dedicated PCIe channel directly on the MB, and are good for 10gb/s a second.

 

In laymans terms - retardedly fast.

 

Most new motherboards have a NGFF slot on them, so if you are in the process of upgrading - it is something to think about.

 

I run a Samsung 512G M.2 on an MSI X99S motherboard for boot and games, and a raid6 set of 5 1TB WD blacks on a separate server via iSCSI for long-term storage. The 512G boot drive is backed up at 3am via network and Clonezilla to the external server - which is a bit copy of the drive - so even if the M.2 craps out I'm back to the previous evening in about 5 minutes.

 

This is not a typical system by any stretch, but like a few others here abouts I've been doing the I.T. thing since the packet was invented. ;)

Edited by Raeshlavik

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SATA connected SSDs are quite nice, and are getting cheaper every day.

 

Anything that has a lot of read/write will benefit from them - MMOs are notorious for thrashing HDs as the entire "world" is the 20-something gigs on the HD, and as you move around it has to be read from those files to display all of the fancy to your eyeballs.

 

SATA SSDs do have a problem though in that they still use the (I don't believe I'm saying this) "old" SATA data scheme and are therefore limited in how fast they can move data to/from the system. This is usually 1.5, 3, or 6 gigabits per second (gb/s) - depending on SATA version.

 

The new hotness is NGFF, aka M.2. These are relatively inexpensive cards that use a dedicated PCIe channel directly on the MB, and are good for 10gb/s a second.

 

In laymans terms - retardedly fast.

 

Most new motherboards have a NGFF slot on them, so if you are in the process of upgrading - it is something to think about.

 

I run a Samsung 512G M.2 on an MSI X99S motherboard for boot and games, and a raid6 set of 5 1TB WD blacks on a separate server via iSCSI for long-term storage. The 512G boot drive is backed up at 3am via network and Clonezilla to the external server - which is a bit copy of the drive - so even if the M.2 craps out I'm back to the previous evening in about 5 minutes.

 

This is not a typical system by any stretch, but like a few others here abouts I've been doing the I.T. thing since the packet was invented. ;)

How the raid performing? Im planning to set it up next year

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How the raid performing? Im planning to set it up next year

 

Raid6 is just raid5 with extra parity - so you can lose two drives without data loss. The trick is the card - I use a rather spendy Areca caching controller.

 

Speed-wise, it is faster than iSCSI so it works. If I were building a raid for gaming, it'd be raid10 - fast and stable.


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You got the idea truly right, however that is not the situation. But impresively thats literally what the ones that made first computers tought of and thats the reason RAM exists.

 

When you launch something, it loads itself to RAM and it runs from RAM, drives are only for storing the information. Thats the reason drives will only increase opening / closing times. Having better drive does not impact the performance.

 

RAM is necessary because something needs to constantly communicate with processor, to send information and to recieve it, a ram is around 20x faster then an SSD. Processor does its job so fast any kind of drive is incapable of achieving the speed. Also the ram stores data in machinelanguage, which allows direct communication with processor. 

 

However since data is hold as electricity, RAMS lose all the data they hold when you cut the power off, this is why we need drives.

yer almost there...lemme take yer hand and let the old man with 20 years of computer building guide you with

 

BABY STEPS!!

2900297524_f79e75d2a4.jpg

lets take SWTOR as a example

the SWTOR install is 28.6gigs as of last patch

With email, 6 web pages, and a streaming movie I am using 5.3gigs of my 32gig ddr3 1600. on a Z97 intel chipset

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/z97-chipset-diagram.html

A side note before we continue...You'll notice the bus speed of the ram is 1600 on the mobo. Meaning that those ppl who bought faster ram never used the extra speed. The slowest part this time was the bus speed...lets move on.

 

I launch the game...after my eniac wizzes and pops..the catho ray tubes start heating up...after an eternity of about 4 seconds the game is up.

At the character screen my ram usage jumps up 1.3 gigs to 6.6gig

I choose a fine Imperial sniper (Boredtroll..yes that's the actual name)

Again the computer starts to smoke...those tubes are now hot..I had to turn the boxfan strapped to the side of my CPU to "High" Its creaking due to the expansion of the aluminum case heating up!! Data is being called from my SSD at a smoking 6gb/second.

Memory usage is now up to 7.1gigs

 

At this point most ppl would say "i get it jacka-s"

But I have a feeling yer a tougher nut to crack.

 

But according to you through the power of

ELECTRICITY!!!

louie.gif

only the launch time should be affected.

 

So I port to Rishi

Now the CPU is vibrating off my desk because the box fan has warped from the heat!!..alarms are going off..Scotty from star trek is tellin me "I cahnt holl er tagetha much longah cap'n!!"

 

I show up on the docks (7.8 gigs) bust out my cash money and hoooeeeees speeder and proceed to drive around (8.2gigs) As I get out of town I notice my CPU usage go up my page file increasing and my ram usage going up..n down.

 

You mean...that the whoooooooole game didn't load into ram? Even though there is enough ram to load it? Why it must be swapping unneeded stuff for needed stuff from the ole hard drive.

 

Now as I glide around Rishi at ultra settings and not skip, blip, or have a mob just pop on screen, That must mean that the data is being called from the SSD at fast enough rate to populate the memory and thus the game....using electricity of course!

 

Your computer is as fast as your slowest component...that includes internet connection.

 

Turns off SWTOR

CPU lets out giant puff of smoke and makes a whining down sound.

 

drops mic.


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

694a6f04-03a1-4af3-8e11-ddd1baa87348.jpg

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yer almost there...lemme take yer hand and let the old man with 20 years of computer building guide you with

 

BABY STEPS!!

2900297524_f79e75d2a4.jpg

lets take SWTOR as a example

the SWTOR install is 28.6gigs as of last patch

With email, 6 web pages, and a streaming movie I am using 5.3gigs of my 32gig ddr3 1600. on a Z97 intel chipset

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/z97-chipset-diagram.html

A side note before we continue...You'll notice the bus speed of the ram is 1600 on the mobo. Meaning that those ppl who bought faster ram never used the extra speed. The slowest part this time was the bus speed...lets move on.

 

I launch the game...after my eniac wizzes and pops..the catho ray tubes start heating up...after an eternity of about 4 seconds the game is up.

At the character screen my ram usage jumps up 1.3 gigs to 6.6gig

I choose a fine Imperial sniper (Boredtroll..yes that's the actual name)

Again the computer starts to smoke...those tubes are now hot..I had to turn the boxfan strapped to the side of my CPU to "High" Its creaking due to the expansion of the aluminum case heating up!! Data is being called from my SSD at a smoking 6gb/second.

Memory usage is now up to 7.1gigs

 

At this point most ppl would say "i get it jacka-s"

But I have a feeling yer a tougher nut to crack.

 

But according to you through the power of

ELECTRICITY!!!

louie.gif

only the launch time should be affected.

 

So I port to Rishi

Now the CPU is vibrating off my desk because the box fan has warped from the heat!!..alarms are going off..Scotty from star trek is tellin me "I cahnt holl er tagetha much longah cap'n!!"

 

I show up on the docks (7.8 gigs) bust out my cash money and hoooeeeees speeder and proceed to drive around (8.2gigs) As I get out of town I notice my CPU usage go up my page file increasing and my ram usage going up..n down.

 

You mean...that the whoooooooole game didn't load into ram? Even though there is enough ram to load it? Why it must be swapping unneeded stuff for needed stuff from the ole hard drive.

 

Now as I glide around Rishi at ultra settings and not skip, blip, or have a mob just pop on screen, That must mean that the data is being called from the SSD at fast enough rate to populate the memory and thus the game....using electricity of course!

 

Your computer is as fast as your slowest component...that includes internet connection.

 

Turns off SWTOR

CPU lets out giant puff of smoke and makes a whining down sound.

 

drops mic.

It took my time to decode this coded information >:D

 

Whole 28gigs are not loaded into ram, most of them are texture files for specific maps.  Which loads into VRAM. And drive only effects loading time of maps. 

There is no situation as CPU directly communicate with Hard drive, they use completely diffrent languages.

 

Also please note that loading is completely diffrent thing.

For example , if a java-game wants to store an integer, it needs to call this command

integer (name) = (value) ; 

there are more then 9 bytes in this source code , however it only takes 4 bytes on memory. Let alone the fact source codes are much smaller then compiled code.

 

Side notes that are unrelated ;

DDR3 rams are maximum 1600mhz by default, brands who sell for higher speeds are just overclocking from factory

SSD is not transmitting data at 6gigs a second. Speed varies depending on your ssd but so far i know there is none thats anywhere near that fast.

Loadings are generally not done in real time. As loading will take some of your memories speed and it could cause very big performance impact to load in realtime.

Internet speed does not effect speed of your computer, it effects the experiance you have. Your computer does its job, then sends the information, how fast it can send is another question, but its after where your computer completed its job.

 

U too old for me, old man

old-man-cartoon.jpg

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sigh...calls n replies

eventually you'll get it...

 

until then...the Old master says...

pai-mei-says-meme-generator-your-kung-fu


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

694a6f04-03a1-4af3-8e11-ddd1baa87348.jpg

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sigh...calls n replies

eventually you'll get it...

 

until then...the Old master says...

pai-mei-says-meme-generator-your-kung-fu

I get that SSD allows faster load times, in the loading process your computer is as slow as your drive. What i meant was after-load usage. While you are in one zone and game is loaded to your ram, this is the reason i think that SSD is the latest thing that should be bought. Because loading is generally not a big deal. However the performance in-game is more important. Personal decision in this matter.

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Well, the fact of the matter is still that an SSD is built to break over time by design and construction, whereas an old-school harddisk is going down "sooner or later" through wear and tear.

Given, that these days every man and their hampster are offering mainboards with hardware controlled SATA RAID, my conclusion is 4 disks, a proper RAID-10 and then it really only depends on "how fast do I want it" when it comes to SSD vs. "classic".

Evidently such an array costs a bit of money and takes some consideration for the choice of the mainboard.

Tthe obvious benefit is that it doesn't matter any more if one of the drives pops while you're in the middle of something.
You take it out, stick another one in and let the RAID rebuild - seamless, non-intrusive and zero downtime.
 

Just my thoughts from a "we know that it *will* happen, we don't know when and better be prepared"



 

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Because ram is so much faster then a SSD still, I sometimes set up 10-12gb RAM drive (I have 16 gb, so why not!)

 

My load times are still noticeable faster when playing Skyrim, any of the Elder Scroll games, Fallout, Dragon Age, and also made a noticeable improvement for online games by moving graphic and some data files. Just takes some time getting use to it but the benefits have been worthwhile for me when using it on the larger gig sized games.

 

 While it probably isn't really needed because of SSD's today, I am curious to see how it might work on the DDR 4 ram once I upgrade to that later in the year. For now, it's not needed as very few programs take full advantage of it.

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I have not personally used SSDs and am not an expert of any kind on the issue. However I have been debating this particular perspective before when considering what kind of computer I should maybe order. Ended up not ordering anything at all, but at least the conversation took place.

 

What's missing from the arguments for SSD, at least those that I've encountered, is an opportunity cost calculation.

 

SSDs are fairly expensive. If you order a small SSD you probably need a regular hard drive for storing data. That means it's an additional cost. Compare this to buying only an SSD and replacing the traditional HDD with it. In this case you could subtract the price of the HDD from the price of the SSD to see what you're gaining and for what price - and also what you're losing, in case you're not planning to get an SSD with the same diskspace. For an example buying a 500gb SSD versus buying a 500gb HDD would allow calculating "Benefit of SSD" for the price of "(SSD price - HDD price)", but buying a 250gb SSD you'd have to include -250gb to the calculation.

 

The second part of the missing opportunity comparison is about what you can get with the money saved. For an example is it better to buy hte HDD and use the left over money (SSD price - HDD price) to buy an even better Graphics Card? Should you spend to that to buy some extra memory? Frankly, I don't know the answer to this question, but I found out that this approach was mostly neglected when asking around.

 

The third part is also that you can consider the geometric benefit of the SSD by making a pricewise comparison to the actual price of the entire computer. In sharper terms if you're buying a 500€ computer and adding a 200€ SSD to that, the increase in the total cost of the computer is considerably high. Meanwhile buying a computer that costs 1300€ the relative increase in price is much smaller for the same 200€ SSD. Also as the more expensive version probably runs everything better in every respect, the defects of HDD might become more obvious, and the relative benefit through user experience might improve by adding an SSD.

 

For my personal decision, which I aborted by not buying anything, I came to conclusion that if I would buy a computer at the cost of 700€ it's not worthwhile to get an SSD. But with a computer more expensive than that, SSD would've probably made my priority list.

 

So in summary, I've no experience with SSDs, and don't have ready answers or useful technical details to share, but maybe these perspectives can come in handy anyway. ^_^

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Because ram is so much faster then a SSD still, I sometimes set up 10-12gb RAM drive (I have 16 gb, so why not!)

 

My load times are still noticeable faster when playing Skyrim, any of the Elder Scroll games, Fallout, Dragon Age, and also made a noticeable improvement for online games by moving graphic and some data files. Just takes some time getting use to it but the benefits have been worthwhile for me when using it on the larger gig sized games.

 

 While it probably isn't really needed because of SSD's today, I am curious to see how it might work on the DDR 4 ram once I upgrade to that later in the year. For now, it's not needed as very few programs take full advantage of it.

Which RAMdrive software do you use? I have 32GB of 2400Mhz DDR4 RAM which I could test With :)

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Which RAMdrive software do you use? I have 32GB of 2400Mhz DDR4 RAM which I could test With :)

I personally use SoftPerfect Ramdisk, a very simple-to-use software.

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