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ShimlOne

Crafting Progress

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I am not very happy with the current progress system. At least not as the only system. I see it more like a nice bonus on top.

It just does not feel really rewarding to get progress offline over time.
A system like in Albion Online gives the player a completely different feeling of progress. It feels much more rewarding and logical when you get better in something while doing it over and over again. In Albion Online you level your lifeskills and professions by doing exactly that.
If you have done something 1000 times, it should feel like that and be rewarded as if you had already done that 1000 times.
Being a good blacksmith just because you made a check mark in the right place overnight does not open up for me.

 

I do not know if something is planned in the direction but I would be very happy about such a system.
Maybe it's already implemented and I just did not notice it. Than I am sorry for the post.

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The real progression in the game will come from doing things in game. The passive training system is just running in the background.

The real reward for crafting 1000 swords is having 1000 swords. You could outfit an army with that. Or sell them. Or sacrifice them to the gods.


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Yes of course. Nevertheless, I think that a skilled lumberjack or a skilled blacksmith should have better chances of success or a higher quality of the items.

As in real life too. You'll be better if you do something more often. Otherwise, it can be frustrating very quickly.The success curve should be available, even if there are only minimal increases. Qualification and specialization should also take place in the game itself not only in the skilltree.

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Yes I know what you mean and agree with you too. And grind should not make anyone overpowerd.
Nevertheless, one could for example reduce the passive bonus and add a "maximum grind" bonus.
So you can get instead of 10% from passiv only 5% from passiv and the other 5% you can achieve through grind.

At least for me it would be more motivating to support my guild as a specialist.
So people in the EK will know, that you are the guy to go to if you need a good bow or something.

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49 minutes ago, ShimlOne said:

[stuff about crafting and how it feels like in the current test build, compared to experiences of other, full developed games]

Thanks for your feedback. 

I must confess that it is more or less hard for me to take it, though. We are in pre-alpha, we don't have the final game loop, blahblah. That's what "we" usually say. But I really do have my dificulties with complaints about how things work in the current test environment. And it's getting harder and harder at each stage of development. For the current test environments don't really say a lot about the final game loop ... as long as someone just looks at the current test stuff instead of the whole picture we already know about. So ... i am biased. Which leads to another problem. Am i just tired of those endless complaints and, because of that, don't even listen to those that may indeed be valid? Or should people just inform themselves better, before they start complaining? Can that be expected at all? Or should the test environment be less "focussed on specific parts of the game" and follow a more linear kind of development instead? I don't really know. I just know that this kind of posts come up over and over again and that most times i am just answering the questions, but sometimes i just think "what the hell, if you would have followed the whole development closely, you wouldn't have made this posting." However, that's just me. I am more than just happy, that the company that develops this game has - other than me - always the nerve to read any of the feedbacks and to consider all of them seriously all the time. So, who am i to say something different. ;) Therefore sorry for my short outbreak and again back to the one thing that counts...

... honestly thanks for your feedback. :) 


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10 minutes ago, ShimlOne said:

At least for me it would be more motivating to support my guild as a specialist.
So people in the EK will know, that you are the guy to go to if you need a good bow or something.

You can achieve that goal without any need for the skill training system to be changed.

You are going to need a good logistical operation to have enough materials to craft enough things to make the best gear. Training will play just a small role in that. There are already crafting specialists in the active guilds, and it isn't simply because they have the right training. It takes time to get the materials, it takes time to craft the stuff, and it takes some experience to know the best ways to craft good gear.

You are going to need to work to be a successful crafter. Don't let the passive training system fool you.

Edited by Jah

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3 minutes ago, Kraahk said:

 Am i just tired of those endless complaints and, because of that, don't even listen to those that may indeed be valid?

I dont want to complain and yes, I am very aware about the early stage.
But that's exactly why I share my previous experience here. And precisely because the game is in this early stage I want to give feedaback.

and as I have said:

58 minutes ago, ShimlOne said:

I do not know if something is planned in the direction but I would be very happy about such a system.

And I thought maybe other players had similar experiences.
I just thought it would be a good idea that could help the game to get even better than it already is.

I did not want to offend anyone here and was not prepared for such a defensive community.
Sorry

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1 minute ago, ShimlOne said:

But that's exactly why I share my previous experience here. 

Which is exactely the right thing. 

And though it was just a weak moment of mine (i am not ACE staff, so luckily I can do that xD), please try to get behind the bigger scope. It's not your fault if you don't, of course. The development process is just too complex. But there are some people, good people, who are getting really tired about answering all the same questions and concerns all the time. And i am speaking about those who don't get paid for it. ;)

However, just a reminder and just saying. In the end saying something is always better than saying nothing.


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1 hour ago, Jah said:

There are already crafting specialists in the active guilds, and it isn't simply because they have the right training. It takes time to get the materials, it takes time to craft the stuff, and it takes some experience to know the best ways to craft good gear.

You are going to need to work to be a successful crafter. Don't let the passive training system fool you.

This is why I am extremely hopeful about crafting in Crowfall. A semi-complex system that allows a knowledgeable player to out-perform a less-knowledgeable player with similar (in-game, statistical/numerical) "skill" is one that I definitely want to be part of!

For the first four months after DAoC's release I crafted for 4 to 6 hours a day and a year later people still remembered my character's name. I knew that system inside and out and I used that knowledge to make the best possible goods that I could and I sold them at a fair (but not inexpensive) price. Even though this predated the 'shop' mechanics that were added two years later, I would have a half-dozen players literally lining up outside my (in-game) "home" and wait until I could take their orders. Wealthy patrons would pay double my asking price because they knew I would produce quality goods. Because I knew the game systems and what was important and what wasn't. I often would tell people who asked why I charged as much as I did that it was because "Crafting skill is more than just a number."

I'm still learning about the crafting system in Crowfall. My biggest complaint is that the passive skill system is stopping me from even making the attempt (so far). But as I learned earlier today, that's just a temporary pre-alpha situation, so that's okay. I also learned today what "sheen" is and why it's probably the most powerful stat for a crafted item. So, yeah.

I've forgotten what my point was.

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On 30.1.2018 at 12:04 AM, Kraahk said:

hanks for your feedback. 

I must confess that it is more or less hard for me to take it, though. We are in pre-alpha, we don't have the final game loop, blahblah. That's what "we" usually say. But I really do have my dificulties with complaints about how things work in the current test environment. And it's getting harder and harder at each stage of development. For the current test environments don't really say a lot about the final game loop ... as long as someone just looks at the current test stuff instead of the whole picture we already know about. So ... i am biased. Which leads to another problem. Am i just tired of those endless complaints and, because of that, don't even listen to those that may indeed be valid? Or should people just inform themselves better, before they start complaining? Can that be expected at all? Or should the test environment be less "focussed on specific parts of the game" and follow a more linear kind of development instead? I don't really know. I just know that this kind of posts come up over and over again and that most times i am just answering the questions, but sometimes i just think "what the hell, if you would have followed the whole development closely, you wouldn't have made this posting." However, that's just me. I am more than just happy, that the company that develops this game has - other than me - always the nerve to read any of the feedbacks and to consider all of them seriously all the time. So, who am i to say something different. ;) Therefore sorry for my short outbreak and again back to the one thing that counts...

 

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@ShimlOne, Not sure about your success rate.... but I specialize in things other than pvp.... and epics and legendary stuff isn’t impossible for me.  Others in my guild would be hard pressed to say the same.  That alone shows that if you specialize in a skill or trade you will be way ahead of the curve when it comes to crafting and/or gathering.  Best example I can give is my 30 minute potion yesterday yielded me 1 legendary and 6 epics.  If I were to hand this to a super trained craftsman and he procs an amazing success... now you got yourself a legendary metal bar.

.... I think looking at the overall big picture... crafting is doing ok.  75% should be in common gear, then you start the steep slope from common to uncommon, rare, epic, legendary.  The names should explain themselves and you will not see everybody rocking rare and epic items... RARE and EPIC...that should be self explanatory.   Others also hit the nail on the head in terms of early game constraints.  You can’t do blueprints or thralls yet.  I think that will also spread the gap from pvp farmer/crafters and dedicated crafters.

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@Xpade

Yes I see your point and I agree with you, you have to specializ, no doubt .

Maybe you got me wrong... I like the skilltree as it is.
The only problem I have with this system is, that it is completely and exclusively time-dependent.
Time is the ONLY factor... I choose the skills I want and wait, and wait, and wait...

Will be hard to catch up for new players. (And yes I read about the timebank and buyable timestorage mechanics)
We'll see how well that works.


 

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On 2/4/2018 at 2:09 PM, ShimlOne said:

@Xpade

Yes I see your point and I agree with you, you have to specializ, no doubt .

Maybe you got me wrong... I like the skilltree as it is.
The only problem I have with this system is, that it is completely and exclusively time-dependent.
Time is the ONLY factor... I choose the skills I want and wait, and wait, and wait...

Will be hard to catch up for new players. (And yes I read about the timebank and buyable timestorage mechanics)
We'll see how well that works.


 

 

On 1/29/2018 at 6:07 PM, Jah said:

You can achieve that goal without any need for the skill training system to be changed.

You are going to need a good logistical operation to have enough materials to craft enough things to make the best gear. Training will play just a small role in that. There are already crafting specialists in the active guilds, and it isn't simply because they have the right training. It takes time to get the materials, it takes time to craft the stuff, and it takes some experience to know the best ways to craft good gear.

You are going to need to work to be a successful crafter. Don't let the passive training system fool you.

I agree with @Jah. I think the point everyone is trying to make is, that the skill tree is only one variable here to be a successful crafter. Just because you sit idle for two weeks and train skills doesn't mean you are automatically good at crafting. The recipes are very complex. It requires experimentation, which requires resources, which require collecting them...etc. It's going to actually take in game experience to know the best way to get the best gear efficiently. Through trial and error. This is one of the things that I love about CF. There isn't a cookie cutter process to make things. It's actually going to be hard to do.


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Something else that hasn't been mentioned yet is that we still haven't seen what disciplines will look like for crafting. And then add to that crafting stats on gear and leadership buffs. Then there will be blueprints, factories and thralls.

Crafting is going to be a very involved process and it's going to take dedication to be good at it.

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On ‎04‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 6:58 PM, Cobratod said:

 

Welcome to the forums.

You quoted me but there was no text from yourself. So I was just wondering if your were just 'agreeing' this way or if your own text just was lost on the way. Just mentioning in case it was the last one and you didn't recognize it.


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On 1/30/2018 at 2:04 AM, TheRealStupid said:

This is why I am extremely hopeful about crafting in Crowfall. A semi-complex system that allows a knowledgeable player to out-perform a less-knowledgeable player with similar (in-game, statistical/numerical) "skill" is one that I definitely want to be part of!

Except I feel it won't be knowledge that determines good crafters, it will be availability of goods that will determine good crafters. Doesn't matter how good you are if you don't have mats to craft with, heck bad luck and material shortage might make a good crafter worse then an average guy with tons of materials to experiment with. To me something feels off, like ace is a bit to concentrated on that final economy when you hit the end of your respective specialization and have thralls and factories etc, and ignores the road to get there to much, or even makes the road worse to justify the end system. 

I made a +64 tool from slag and stone, I made a bunch of +12 to +21 with higher tired mats, which took a whole lot longer to acquire. Gathering slag and stone in yur EK is boring as hell, but in my book atm the most economic to make tools. Gambling six pips in 1 go far outweighs gambling 3 times 2 pips, even if all 3 are successes or higher. The question that remains is what is the +64 worth compared to the +12 in a pvp game where the +64 might actually sponsor the enemy. Also the broken durability causes an unknown factor in what will be more viable at release.

Yes things might change drastically by release, possibly, that's why even the less informed should at least report how they experience the game, because regardless of future, this is the base of things to come, and while I understand the concerns of those that follow this game so closely, the day you'll be lacking subscriptions it won't matter much. Maybe you hardcores will have to acknowledge that you need the bottom line, be it in a campaign with care bear rules or whatever. Fact is this game is built to allow these scenarios to play out, so why not let them? afraid your gonna lose a dev for a month to optimize that 1% better pvp. Makes me laugh. Also, there's always outcry when things change to drastically, because some people got used to it and want it to remain, which is counter productive to feedback and a chance for change. And I think many are afraid necesary change will not get a chance anymore once certain things have become "the way the game plays", as has happened in many games before. That's why people voice their opinions to early, because of that fear that doing it later, it won't be heard at all. And the worst part that it's probably true...

As to answering the same questions over and over again, if you don't get paid for it, and yur tired of it, then don't reply. Your reply usually does more harm then good in that scenario.


Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

-a very satisfied customer-

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