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ACE_JackalBark

Exploring the Crypt - Official Discussion Thread

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58 minutes ago, KohrAh said:

When I first read about Crowfall the vessel system was one of the most interesting parts of the core design.

It was not part of the core design. It was an addition, at least one year after Kickstarter I think?

47 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

wheres love for hamster knight? :)

Burn them at the stake.


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I was planing to mainly only use 1 vessel with some spare ones to use to spice things up when i got kinda bored of my class. So yeah, i kinda like not having to change vessels as much but, as others said, this will have huge impacts on necromancy. That is the problem with changing things all the time... Things are starting to clash...

Edited by BarriaKarl

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23 hours ago, ACE_Jackal said:

Join us on a trip to the home of the dead.

FULL STORY

 

I thought ACE & Gordon Walton aimed for a dungeon here or a crypt like in UO! ;)

Is that a thing still in the world exploring a dungeon?

 

- The vessel system sounds good, and we should start the game with a player character so it make sense with the updated information about the Crypt and vessel system, and campaign limitations based on vessel or older vessel from earlier campaigns. But the progression speed should be debated, because it`s more fun to have knowledge about advance armor, and start doing legendary items - instead of a long period of basic & intermediate progression in any campaigns or speed up the basic progression skill trees in any given campaign. 

Edited by mythx

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22 hours ago, Svenn said:

This brings up more questions than it provides answers.

So once you bind a vessel to a character slot, you can't lose that character (no decay, no drop, etc)? Won't that put a damper on the necromancy crafting skill since the items they are crafting won't decay/be lost unless someone chooses to delete it?

What all is saved with this vessel (I assume just the sacrifice level and disciplines, but is that all)? Do they have their own inventories? There appears to be some sort of level listed in the screenshot for character selection. Is that from the sacrifice system?

You mention that players can just pick a character and stick with that... does that mean they'll be at a disadvantage to someone who actually gets better vessels? If that's the case, then the "problem" of people not feeling attached to their characters isn't really solved because they'll be forced to create new characters as they obtain better vessels. Is there any way to upgrade a character with a new vessel (that wouldn't make any sense lore wise, but it's the only way I can see for someone to be able to stick with a character without being underpowered)? 

Character switching can only be done in Crypts? I actually really like that change. I didn't like the idea of people carrying around a bunch of vessels and swapping on the fly. Excited for this!

How is this going to work with campaigns exactly? You mention enforcing limits like level limits... but that means someone who has a bunch of maxed characters has to delete one just to join a new campaign? And those people you are trying to cater to that want to stick to one character... they will be very limited in what campaigns they can even take that character into, forcing them to do what they don't want to do and create new characters?

I'm worried this system is an over-complication of something that should be really simple.

Ya'll are forgetting the beheading thing.

It would be silly if beheading didn't finish off the vessel. 

One option would be when the last durability on the vessel is taken, the player who made the kill can behead the vessel and keep the trophy.

 

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Good to see I am not the only one confused by this. You want players to be able to have one character to relate to but you also want to have a constantly evolving economy of crafting and decaying characters? How are you planning to satisfy crafters while letting players keep their vessels essentially for ever? 

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49 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Ya'll are forgetting the beheading thing.

It would be silly if beheading didn't finish off the vessel. 

One option would be when the last durability on the vessel is taken, the player who made the kill can behead the vessel and keep the trophy.

 

Well, I did forget about the beheading thing... but I'm not sure they are related.

They mentioned that one of the goals for the system was to give someone a character they could play forever. Can't do that if someone can behead that character.


Guild Leader of Seeds of War

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3 minutes ago, Svenn said:

Well, I did forget about the beheading thing... but I'm not sure they are related.

They mentioned that one of the goals for the system was to give someone a character they could play forever. Can't do that if someone can behead that character.

Perhaps the "play forever" was only referring to cosmetics, as in all appearance and other settings, like a template, but you can drop in blank/built vessels and have it "feel" a bit like you are just the same character.  

I think they may simply have made a wording mistake by selecting "forever".

Do you have access? If you do maybe stroll through Todds musings on it in the dev forum.

 

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I definitely like this idea and seems much more reasonable than the current crow system. You would often see new players asking what to do next, at least this way it creates a more guided experience. As many have pointed out this definitely raises some important questions on how the entire system meshes with the rest of game. Overall though great news!

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I'm excited to see you guys trying to tackle problems for people who want to be a consistent character through the world.

Its not a deal breaker for me to be a bunch of different dead bodies of heroes but it was a bit of like "well there are only so many heroes" kind of thing.

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Just now, blazzen said:

IMO, trying new builds is what will drive demand for vessels and discipline runes and that durability loss is not needed like it is in the case of armor/weapons. 

 

 

True.

People are obsessive upgraders.  If you have Human cleric preference, I can see you going through a cycle of

  • Find better Vessel
  • Find desired Disciplines
  • Occupy vessel.
  • Level Vessel up.

Several times.  Every time you trip over a "better vessel", it's going to drive that cycle again.

Besides, it's a supply/demand thing.  If demand is not as large for necromancy, then guess what, less people will be necromancers, so supply will also be low and prices will be high due to scarcity.

If demand is high, then people will move to necromancy as a way to make proffit. 

ACE doesn't really have to balance the cycle that much, the market will.  I don't think people are going to even want to replace vessels as often as say weapons, so demand will be low, but because of that, and the fact that the base stats will affect everything,  I would guess that the price for a single good vessel will be much higher than a weapon.

We will see.

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There is a lot of thinking and believing in this thread up to now. It's time ACE clears some things up because it is obvious they left some details out or are thinking right now: "poorly made socks we didn't think of this and that!" Either way, we need some answers.


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3 minutes ago, Caenth said:

There is a lot of thinking and believing in this thread up to now. It's time ACE clears some things up because it is obvious they left some details out or are thinking right now: "poorly made socks we didn't think of this and that!" Either way, we need some answers.

Follow my link above, and you will see that they are still sorting out the details.  They can't clear up for us, what is not really clear to them yet.

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Here is how I see the day to day need for the vessel system and I wonder if this system will provide the required functionality.

 

The cool thing about Crowfall and any sandbox is that everyday your activity is not chosen for you. You are not on a theme park ride.

Your guild may decide to harvest mats for crafting , siege a keep or fort, build a keep or fort,  or just PvP attempting to stop another guild from doing all of the same.

but each of hose things requires a vessel with different disciplines and skills.

For now easy Discipline construction makes that switching relatively painless.

That will change when we have Discipline droppers and rare materials.

So everyone will need , a crafter, a few harvesters, a PvP build or two etc to switch between.

Will we need to purchase multiple accounts or will the vessel system facilitate this?

Everyone won’t necessarily need to craft but everyone will need to PvP and Harvest .

and each Resource needs a different harvestiing discipline ! Which means a new vessel!


www.lotd.org       pking and siege pvp since 1995

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For a location and a UI element the Crypt is a good thing.  Being able to move between worlds in a body is fine (subject to import/export rules).  But everything about players being able play a single character and form attachment is either problematic or misleading, both from an economic systems sense and a progression sense.  Honestly need more information, but I fear this is a half-measure to try to please everyone.

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Henry of House Henrikson

Anyone know how this name works?

Henry a named tied to the Vessel/Character? Not Unique?

Henrikson a forum/account name? Guild name? Unique

Another shot has "Enter Character Name," which seems to mean we can name each character individually.

With how name reservations turned out, hopefully they give everyone a chance to work it out prior to launch, even if name changes have already happened.

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As a newbie, the vessels are really confusing to me. I would definitely prefer to work with one character that can travel to other worlds without having to start over each time. Maybe I just haven't experienced all the vessel system is capable of? Also I just realized that crafting from my EK has it's disadvantages since there are limited item transfers to/from soulbank. It's currently the only way I have figured out how to set up specialized crafting stations in order to craft recipes. I'll just have to be more discerning until we can travel with inventory/exp. 

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One thing that's been running through my head is this notion of getting people more attached to their vessel by making them characters.  The positive responses to this aspect seem to come from people who didn't really get the vessel system.  Time and time again on a variety of systems the devs/designers have told us how we don't have all the pieces yet, basically that we don't get it yet.  Many times I've agreed with that response and have kept an open mind for when we do have the big picture.  This really seems like it should have been the response people who didn't quite get the vessel system should have gotten.  The Crowfall vessel system is basically the Eve Online ship system.  Anyone who has played Eve knows that the stated concern is non-issue.  Some people don't get it yet, but that's not a problem with the vessel system itself, it's just that they don't yet get it.

The vessel system itself was chosen to solve issues, it adds a lot of cohesion to the game systems wise and thematically.  Making vessels into characters is a counter to that.  It's loss of cohesion.  And as I have stated before, the specifics of making vessels into characters but still trying to preserve the vessel system work against the stated goals of having characters to begin with.  I have a feeling that putting this in game as stated, that the people happy with the characters idea are going to be frustrated with how they will need to have some level of limited longevity.  They're then going to push back against the vessel system as a whole and any notion of limiting vessel imports to campaign.  At that point it's not as simply as limiting a vessel, you're now preventing them from bringing in their character.  This will be especially problematic for those who like the change because they want to play a single character.

They really should have given people the chance to experience the vessel system before trying to cater to a group of people who just didn't get it yet.  Even after this announcement that's still the right course of action in my eyes.

Steps I think they should take:

  • Introduce crypts as the location for switching vessels (maybe with some form of vessel only storage to limit how much you're walking around with vessels in your inventory).
  • Enable vessel switching at crypts.
  • Let people play test this system for a while and get feedback (as opposed to trying to address a perceived issue before finding out if it's actually an issue).
  • Sort out specifics of whether crypts are linked as a global storage or if they're local and you only have access to vessels that are locally stored in that crypt.  Perhaps even having different options on this factor for different campaign types.

The full game loop not being online yet some people just haven't seen what it's like for your crow to be your character and vessels just being bodies you inhabit.  And then for people who haven't played and don't get it, just tell them to watch Altered Carbon on Netflix and think of swapping vessels like sleeving in that show.

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30 minutes ago, Gaiawyn said:

As a newbie, the vessels are really confusing to me. I would definitely prefer to work with one character that can travel to other worlds without having to start over each time. Maybe I just haven't experienced all the vessel system is capable of? Also I just realized that crafting from my EK has it's disadvantages since there are limited item transfers to/from soulbank. It's currently the only way I have figured out how to set up specialized crafting stations in order to craft recipes. I'll just have to be more discerning until we can travel with inventory/exp. 

Honestly I think everyone who doesn't get it yet, like yourself, just hasn't had a chance to see it really in action.  Up until this announcement it's been that your crow is the character, and vessels are just bodies that your spirit/character inhabits.

As to crafting stations, currently in the campaign worlds you need to travel to keeps that your faction owns.  The keeps are also one of the locations to gather higher level resources.

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