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Exploring the Crypt - Official Discussion Thread

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So after a few days of thought, and watching Blair briefly talk about necromancy on the live stream my perspective MAY have changed slightly.  The article made it seem like this move to vessels as characters made vessels fairly permanent.  The way Blair spoke of them sounded like they're still very temporary.  The lack of details here makes it hard to tell what's what and how big of in impact this change will have on what we were previously expecting.  That being said the fine details need to be discussed, as we've been doing here, before anything is set in stone because of how important this system is to the game as a whole.

So going with the assumption that how I'm interpreting Blair speaking on the subject as correct (vessels innately temporary) I'll list out what I feel are important factors to make this system work.

  • Don't make vessels characters.  On the surface it may seem familiar to newcomers, but on the whole it makes it more complicated with your skills tied to the crow.  Once the game loop is more in place and new player experience is starting to be addressed people who come into the game will have some level of guidance and it won't be as confusing as they currently think it is.  Also making them characters doesn't make it any less creepy as then it's basically characters constantly possessed by demons and not actually being that character anyway.  It's still the crow you're playing.
  • You can have players start new at the vessel creation screen without making vessels characters.  It's just a creating initial vessel screen.  Then for situations where you're joining a new campaign have a button to switch to vessel import if desired.
  • You can still make a vessel bind to a single player one first use without making them into characters.
  • There is a lot of benefit to having a single character name across all of your vessels.  Especially in a game like this.  For many of the same reasons Shadowbane moved to all characters automatically belonging to the same guild.  Also, I've already seen confusion caused in fights when someone calls out for heals but they're on their second account with a different name.
  • For the love of god don't do character slots.  It's incredibly limiting to the versatility of the vessel system.  I know it makes for easier UI choices, but you could easily have a choose server then get a list of vessels currently stored in crypts.  You could even have most recent vessels displayed in the slots like in the article, but limiting to a certain number of slots adds nothing to the experience and has the potential to take away a lot.  (see my previous post in this thread)

To some the whether or not vessels being called characters or not once used may seem like an insignificant factor, but the distinction matters.  On the whole having the crow spirit, and your skill training tied to the crow, and then separate characters with their own names is making the system more convoluted.  It makes things less clear, not more.

I think the first thing we need from ACE is some clarity on what kind of longevity they're looking to get out of a vessel.  We can get to specifics of any potential decay later.  From what I've seen it seems that everyone that's happy about the the idea of vessels becoming characters thinks this means that character/vessel is going to be there for the long haul and they'll be using the same one two years down the line.  Which if they're wrong then they're not really getting what they want from this change and they aren't going to be any happier than if you do what I listed above.  Some people just don't like the idea of the vessel system at all and want the whole thing gone.  Modifying the system to make it seem more familiar to them while largely leaving it in place isn't really going to appease them, and will negatively impact the vessel system itself. 

Making the promise of characters, but not making them permanent is likely going to piss some people off.  Making vessels turn into permanent characters is going to negatively impact necromancy and the player economy on the whole.  Just stick to them being vessels, with your crow as the character.  Once the game comes together and the details of new player experience are better ironed out most of the people that don't get it will.  Those who do get it and still hate it aren't going to be truly happy with anything but a complete neutering or removal of the vessel system itself.  I think I can confidently most of us love the idea of the vessel system and wouldn't be happy with it becoming irrelevant.

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I really like the sound of this. I'd much rather travel between Campaigns and the Eternal Kingdoms within the game than to do it from a Lobby.

Join us on a trip to the home of the dead. FULL STORY

Until you get a top end vessel. And then it never decays or goes away unless you destroy it. It's the same issue with crafting in most other MMOs, and one of the big things that Todd has gone on about

It's starting to become more clearer to me about the vessels and I'm more intrigued. I'm definitely going to keep an open mind and look forward to experiencing what's coming up next in 5.5. 


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On 2/15/2018 at 11:20 AM, KohrAh said:

Since you can't train more than a single combat tree, anyone with VIP is going to have some harvesting or crafting skills. 

Please let this not be so.......... really hoping that they re add a lot of things and put it into exploration: Sieging, animal hubandry, scouting etc etc........  

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20 hours ago, Mayhem_ said:

Please let this not be so.......... really hoping that they re add a lot of things and put it into exploration: Sieging, animal hubandry, scouting etc etc........  

Sieging and scouting seem likely.  Animal husbandry could be a later on thing once pack animals are in the game.

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After today's QA it's time to swing back to this discussion.  Some of my concerns have been put to rest.  Mainly because things aren't changing as much as the Exploring The Crypt article suggested.  They basically just caused confusion by saying that vessels once bound to your account are characters.  Meanwhile in practice no they really aren't.  Your skills are on the crow.  Other people see the crow name, not the vessel name.  You name the vessel when you use it the first time, but that's only for your reference.  Vessels aren't permanent and will have some form of decay.

What we're looking at now is basically the exact same system as before except with limited vessel slots (I refuse to call them characters when they don't function as characters at all).  Which I'm still not a fan of vessel slots as they discourage testing out different builds.

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I interpreted the term "character" as being a race/class combo that you like.  I don't think it means one vessel and done, it means one race of vessel and done.  Of course you'll need to continually update your "character" by using different vessels with either better/different stats or ones with more additives.  Additives are the best parts of necromancy I find as the vessels I've crafted thus far can have anything from extra support power to more experimentation points in any crafting profession.

I'm sure at some point people will acquire vessels that are considered top tier, but the desire to maximize one's own potential will require constant tweaking of stats and additives.  So even though the TOP players can't move any further vertically they can become better by moving horizontally.

Edited by Kelfatir


Kelfatir - Prospect

“Suffer well.”



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