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Squidbillies

Why I am extremely dissapointed (waste of money)

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Hello. 

I recently bought crowfall and am extremely dissapointed and insulted. This is a rant explaining the issues I experienced.

I was looking for a good MMO with PvP which this game appears to have, but too many things prevented me from enjoying the game. I saw this, watched some videos, got stoked, saw it was 50 bucks and slept on the decision for a few days. Decided to buy it, knowing it is "pre-alpha" (whatever the custard that means), thinking it will at least be playable and properly developed. NOPE. The moment I bought the game they were just like thanks for the money! I'm like wtf wheres the game. Took me about 5-10 mins to figure out how to download it, I'm thinking okay lets download this and go start a grind. Then it doesn't even give you the option to select where it downloads to (unless you manually extract it somewhere, which didnt even seem to work) and theres no launcher like wtf dudes. Im paying 50 bucks for the game just make it easy to play at least. Once I download the game im like okay s'go. Wait. Where the custard is it? I look around in my program files where it said it would download and its not there. Turns out you go back to the zip file and launch it through that. Im thinkin wtf i just paid 50 bucks to some neckbeards for this? I get it, its "pre-alpha" (just call it beta ass-holes. Youre not fancy), but i expect to have a launcher at least! Okay, launched it (after an hour of confusion and frustration). The hard parts over, I'm thinking. I load the server and my custard its the laggiest thing i've ever experienced. Even moving my cursor around in the main menus gave me  a migraine. Then its like wtf do i make a character? Theres multiple worlds to load, PvP, private, or join another persons. I make my own server and there I am, a friggin bird. Just show a character selection screen instead of have me fly around the map for 30 minutes looking for something in nothing. I finally figure out this statue is my character. I make one and the stats are different then the website (update your poorly made socks). Im like okay w/e give them a break. I made my character now lets farm some stuff and go to PvP. I hit some wood make some axes, make some armor, grind for 30 mins to an hour. No biggie its an MMO. I then back out and load the PvP server (not to mention the load screens my god). I load in and Im a bird again like wtf i just made a character. I make a new character and grind for another 30 mins. Lag is pretty bad so i throw my stuff in the spirit bank and restart the game. When i try to reload the game through the launcher in the zip file it makes me redownload the whole damn thing! (this happened every time i launched it) and then it starts making my computer have a stroke and flashback in time whenever I do anything CPU intensive. I launch it a second time and get into PvP, me and my buddy (whos also disgruntled experiencing the same issues) finally find a guy and have a good fight (druid whooped our asses) after like 3-5 hours of frustration. We decide to  log off because our training is low and we are super weak, and that we don't have any gear. We come back the next day to the same round of issues (redownloading, horribly laggy menus, flashbacks in time, not having an established character, etc.) and decide to wait for updates. I unistalled the game and my PC went back to normal (no flashbacks in time) Again, I  get it, the game is in early development. But at least make it user friendly so that people can play. I want to play this game, the PvP looks sweet and I like the concept (except for training skills in real-time, gives unfair advantage to people who simply started playing early), but it is too hard to play at this point in time. I will wait for the game to develop more and improve but until it does this feels like the biggest waste of 50 dollars. 

Takeaways to not piss other people off:

Let us choose where to download it.
Give us a proper launcher.
Don't make it redownload every time.
Have us pick characters from server load (instead of once in a server)
Make these characters established
Get rid of real-time training (unfair, not totally skill based. People don't want to log in every day)
Just call it beta. 

/rant

Thanks for reading.

Squidbillies

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I don't even know where to start about this, did you do ANY research about how files on a computer in the first place works, let alone about the game and the state of development in (hint: calling it beta would be the worst thing ever, it is in no way shape or form in anything you can call a beta)

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In those few days when you debated buying it would have been a good idea to look on Youtube at starter videos for the game. The vast majority of the problems you encountered would have never arisen had you done so.

The game is in pre-alpha right now and a lot of the systems are either not yet there or in early infancy. Things like the new player experience and more intuitive systems will come later in development when all the basics are in place and working as intended.

It is always best to do your homework before jumping feet first into any game that is not in its release phase and people have gotten too used to the terms 'alpha' or 'beta'  meaning fully featured games who's developers are just giving themselves a buffer to extend crowdfunding when this is in fact not always the case.

Edited by Badwolfe

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Look you seem new to game development concepts so let me teach you, this may help you feel less annoyed but I doubt it.

In game development you need to test and so there are stages to a games development. Alpha means pre-public access grade completion/ also known as a prototype (usually this means no art, music and game feel additions), beta which is when the game is at public testing (IE assets and mechanics in place and ready to be tested) and finally launch (your game is done).

I note in your rant all these issues but frankly its not Crowfalls faults, its your own for making assumptions of what you were getting. The game is in pre-aplha and lets you buy into it now to fund its development. This concept may seem strange to you. When you consider just how many salaries are paid to get a game developed it makes sense, especially when you aren't backed by 1 mega corporation. 

The fact you are disappointed again just shows you didnt bother to do any research and you were looking for a game to play right now however Crowfall is in a testing environment therefore by buying in you acknowledged that you were here to test and give feedback. AGAIN the game is in a prototype phase and nothing is yet remotely complete.

This is not a game, its public testing to allow a game to be made so please don't go on rants about your expectations of an agile development based process, its just makes it seem AGAIN like you didn't even bother to google what pre-aplha means... this term has existed since the 80s. When I worked in the game design field I hate nothing more then when I showed someone a prototype and they cried by it feels unfinished.

Thanks for reading and I hope this taught you something about game development terms. Also as these terms are not specific to game development please refer to this wiki page for what software cycles are and how they are named https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle .

Edited by KittyBot

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Dear Squidbillies,

Your English teacher would probably give your opinion post an D in grammar and content. If you are trying to persuade people to your opinion you might want to start with some simple paragraphs, a train of thought and a reasoned main idea.  Most people when they see a wall of text and sophomoric ramblings just dismiss it and dont give the post a second thought.

I hope you enjoy the game when it is more finished and beta state, that seems to be what you are looking for.  

Good luck to you. 


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When I see stuff like this from a fresh forum user with only a single post, it makes me feel it's a bunch of BS to begin with. I've noticed a lot of new names on these forums posting some of the most idiotic stuff I've seen on a website in a long time that's video game related.

If you aren't willing to do extremely basic troubleshooting of a video game to get it to work, then stop buying games that aren't fully released. End of story. Full stop.

If you aren't willing to even bother watching YouTube videos on the video game for 1 or 2 hours to see if it looks good enough by your own personal standards, then you forfeit the right to whine and complain about the product's quality in an early product development stage. End of story. Full stop.

Blaming the product that's been in development for over 3 years is misplaced. The horrible consumer decision to spend a portion of your personal finances on an incomplete video game product is where the blame should be placed. It's your responsibility as a consumer to educate yourself enough to make the best possible purchasing decision for you. It isn't the company's fault that you spent $50 on an incomplete game. Artcraft Entertainment didn't force you to spend that money. It's your fault for spending that money.

Suck it up or shut up. Take responsibility for the choices you make in your life cause that's the person who is to blame for whether or not the choice you made is good or bad. Not a company.

Thanks for the good laugh though! :D


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59 minutes ago, Wolfrain said:

today the patcher was deleted off my file idk how and now everytime i try redownload and unzip the file deletes it self in fron my face im like wtf

 

Had this problem the other day. Your firewall/anti-virus thinks Crowfall is a virus and deletes it for you. You either need to temporarily disable your firewall, or exclude Crowfall from it so that it stops trying to delete it.


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You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

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Quote

(.....)Decided to buy it, knowing it is "pre-alpha" (whatever the custard that means), thinking it will at least be playable and properly developed. NOPE.(....)

This sentence alone explains a good part of your problem. Also

Quote

"pre-alpha" (just call it beta ass-holes. Youre not fancy)

How about no.... Not knowing the difference which I guess you really don't know by stating this further strengthens my first point. 

Quote

Again, I  get it, the game is in early development

I don't think you got it at all. 

 

Most stuff you complained about could have been avoid if you either followed the forums for quite a bit or actually watched a few videos on how to crowfall which you will easily find on youtube. 

You are right about the user-friendly elements and general guidance on new users but they are at it. Again.... I don't think you got it at all in which state this game is. Also my view on crowfall, other alpha games and in general korean beta games is the following - if you aren't will to spend a lot of troubleshooting getting the game running you should come back when it is really just a "last beta before release" state where you simply download it, run it, play it, etc. But clearly this isn't the state now so either make peace with it or leave it till it is more polished. 

Edited by Thyr

You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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I've never been involved in an "alpha" stage before, only early betas of other MMOs. The OP clearly didn't do the homework before purchasing. I just started playing a few days ago and I love the direction this game is headed and looking forward to experiencing it's growth. I'm having fun just trying to figure things out. I really like the skill tree system and how it operates. Love that crafting is made a priority.

I'm very impressed with the responsiveness of the support team. I sent in a low priority ticket to have my name changed expecting it to take a few days and they did it within an hour or less I would say.

Waste of Money? NOPE! I can tell that it's going to be the immersive mmo I've been waiting for a long time.

Ka-Kaw!

 

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Hi @Squidbillies , welcome to the forums.
 
Unfortunately this will be a wall of text now. I am (not really ;) ) sorry for that. Let's see if you are willing to take the time. ;)
 
First-impression feedback is indeed highly appreciated by the devlopers and very important. In your feedback you also made very valid points (even if they don't answer, be sure that they read and discuss it) ... and above that - what most people don't do - you went further and suggested concrete improvement ideas. So first of all: thanks for that.
 
The problems you talked about have been discussed before, though. Some of them are convinience problems. Then we have bugs. And game design decisions. Let's start with the convinience thing.
 

 
I know some people don't like the wording, but (of course only in my point of view) during the last months we hit the break-even-point, where the average level of expectations of the crowd and the state of development crossed each other.

What does that mean?

At the early days everybody who joined Crowfall knew that it was far from done. So the expectations were low. Except of a few basic ideas, the early backers had no idea where we were heading. That changed. If you take a look at the website and watch some videos, the whole thing appears to be nearly done - it is comparable to what we can see from Beta's. And that's the problem. For it isn't Beta. We are in Pre-Alpha, which means that the accessible testing environments provide only specific parts of the later game (and not necessarily including those things that already have been tested, but those that got testing priority right now). Alpha will be, when most of the game systems will have been put together (most likely within the 1st half of 2018), and Beta will be fine tuning. But we are not there yet.
So this point is mostly about appearance (=expectations) vs. state of the game.
 
And i agree that this important point isn't communicated very well and that some people may feel misleaded. Not necessarily, but possibly.
So it's not very surprising that feedbacks, especially from earlier backers, often base on "well, you should have informed yourself, right?" Don't forget that they backed the game up top three years ago and followed it's devlopment eversince. Just look at the forum badges, mostly kickstarters. And now you join and immediately say "hey, i am here now, so why isn't done yet, huh?! what a crap." Doesn't produce good feelings, right? Just mentioning to allow you a better understanding.
 
So back to convinience. Most points you mentioned are a matter of convinience. If you buy a game, you excpect it to hug you and to pull a nice blanket over your soul. That's normal. From the moment we click on "download" we expect to be leaded through the whole process comfortably. Because: they want our money, right? So they should make us feel comfortable. This is true for a launched game. It should even be true for most Beta's. But it's not necessarily true for Alpha and definitely not true for Pre-Alpha. The focus of Pre-Alpha is isolated technical tests. That's where we are. They already did a great job to - nevertheless - provide 'playable' testing environments. And by the way, they did that right from the start (like with the hunger dome).
The point is, creating playable testing environments cost time. And every minute spent for that makes the game launch a minute later. They have to balance it somehow. People complain anyway. If they have a test environment that makes no fun (or no testing environment at all), they will complain. If they do, they will complain because it already looks fun but isn't ready yet. There is no final solution ... except of not showing the game at all, until it looks and feels good and ready enough. Which would also lead to less data and feedback. And that's what ACE didn't want to do. They wanted us to be able to accompany them on the whole journey. To support them and to continously give them constructive feedback to make the final game better. From the first steps on up to the final product. Some people like it, some don't. Thats the way it is.
 
The current test environment is not made for players. It's mostly made for testers and early birds. The early testers and earliest birds do understand that and don't complain. A lot of new testers don't understand that, because they are players who look for a game that is done. We will reach this state of development within Alpha. And right now Alpha is only one or two minor milestones away (which should be 2-4 months from now on). They simply can't loose development time now by creating a special convinience environment only for those who might join during a few months of a 5 year development. They have to transition to Alpha as soon as possible. That's unconvinient for some people. We know. They know. It's their call. And there are people who waited (and supported) the game for a much longer time. So maybe think about this for a minute.
 
The bottom line is: If you are a typical tester or early bird, you are already late - hurry up. If you are a pure player, you are a bit early - maybe you would like to wait another six months, before your final decision.
 

 
The redownload thing is a bug that don't happen most people. You should contact support@crowfall.com to get it fixed.
 
The character selection will change. It has been mentioned in one of the most recent news.
 
The real-time training is a game design decision and won't change. Of course skill levels do have an influence, but it's by far not as much as in most level based games and by this should indeed be more fair than other systems in the end - allowing you to compete with others based on your personal skills even if your character skills are not that good.
However, thats the way it is. Won't change. Get used to it. ;)
 

 
What i absolutely do agree to is that the basic issue of this feedback will increase. The 'game' just looks 'too good and ready' right now, to not cause high expectations. So new backers won't understand that this is not a nearly done game yet. They won't understand the difference between Pre-Alpha and Beta and with terms like 'early access' and 'pre-sale' they will expect much more than what exists.
 
I just hope that the transition to Alpha will
a) come very soon and
B) include more convenience advancements.
 
Like exactely the points Squidbillies mentioned (easy download and installation, and an easy guidance system ingame to get people easily into playing and feel good with it from the start, without having to research and understand everything themselves).
Edited by Kraahk

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1 minute ago, Squidbillies said:

Thanks for all your responses guys. I had fun reading them

There is a Community Q&A forum, Discord, and Reddit. Which might of saved you quite a bit of time, annoyance, and confusion.

I can understand if you were having some technical difficulties, likely on both sides, but if you are going to spend $50 on an unfinished product and not get more (easily obtained) details about the current state, issues, upcoming changes, etc... that's on you. Your first post being a rant says a lot. If it was simply suggestions from a newcomer, that would be a bit different.

Maybe try back in a few months when it hopefully resembles something closer to what you might see as a "beta." However, again something easy to find out, we don't know when certain changes and features will happen. Could be a year or two until it resembles a more "game" like experience.

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