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Timoth

Epic open world events

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Re:  epic open world events that require cooperation of not only multiple guilds but might even require alliances between the factions for short periods of time

 

Of course I know Crowfall will focus on player based content and PvP with PvE mostly just to give a natural feel to the world.

What I'm going to suggest doesn't have to come at the start of the game or in the first months to years ... but at a certain point in time it might be really fun ...

 

What if at some random point,  or points,  in the campaign there would be 'epic open world events' like say:

An undeath lich plans to take over the world by summoning an army of zombies that go from encampment to encampment wiping them out and the only way to salvage the campaign as a whole  is by having the players cooperate.

 

I would make these 'epic open world events' initiated and controlled by an ACE GM and not a random time or progression based thing.  

(not like a Guild Wars 2  open world event where after 2 times it starts to feel like a known fun park attraction that starts at predetermined times and always takes the same progression)

 

Say:  there is a lot of player activity in a specific campaign and the factions are well enough structured thanks to the many guilds and individuals contributing them.  The GM deems now is the time to strike!

One day while harvesters are out harvesting around a remote  encampment they spot several organised zombie npc's.  Since they have some fighting skills the harvesters can defeat these ... and all seems alright again ...  the local players don't see a need to contact other encampments ... a few real campaign days later the npc's are back but in larger force and it takes every player in the vicinity to hold off the attack.  Since the threat is now deemed real,  messengers are sent and the faction as a whole starts to organize.

The GM decides to kick things up a noch and a massive zombie army crushes the encampment after a valiant defense of the players.

While organised groups of players and brave individuals keep venturing and fighting in the area,   the time for diplomacy starts ...

Will the faction fight off the armies itself or request aid from others.  

... while the other factions don't mind their opponent being targeted they know from previous campaigns that  at one point their own interests will be in danger ...  what will they do ... come to the aid,  dig in and fortify their own positions,  use this diversion to attack the victimized faction themselves and worry about the npc army later,  payback for previous campaigns, ...

...

As the situation grows more dire,  more valuable crafting,  explorable,... items can be found thus rewarding those who fight and or find their way to points of interest among imminent danger.

...

If the npc forces can be fought back there might even be a final fight against a GM controlled boss or even a group of ACE employer controlled overpowered enemies  upon who's defeat the campaign world is preserved for an extra amount of time and holds extra valuable spoils (epic resource nodes,...) as a reward for the coordinated fighting.

...

After the threat has been dealt with some ties and alliances remain ...and might be called upon again  in future campaigns ... but for now within this specific campaign it's once again every faction for itself and former allies are once again rivals ... for now ...

 

... 0000....

Think of the great events that have happened in e.g. World of Warcraft's history in the sense of "you had to be there ..." like the 'corrupted blood incident',...

 

While all of this might be ambitious ... it might be fun if unannounced at least once every few campaigns there is a giant event like this that basically effects everyone in the world spicing things up a bit.  It might even be a way to "end a campaign" hordes and hordes of zombies until only the  beachheads of the factions still stand in a desperate fight to prolong the campaign and thus get as much stuff out of it into the Eternal Kingdoms as possible because the later in the campaign the more valuable resource nodes,... can be fount by having excursions beyond the walls.

The dynamics of deciding when to abandon a small encampment and more resource nodes for the safety of bigger settlements,... 

 

It also doesn't have to be fully balanced ... e.g. one faction might be doing well until it just happens to be targeted by the GM ... 

To know that there are events impossible to control as a player ... that would make for an awesome addition to the game!!!

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I sort of like this idea. Major events can be extremely fun and introduce a lot of life into games that get repetitive. 

That said, having the fate of my campaign in the hands of a GM and whether or not they feel like playing god today... no thanks. Imagine how furious people would become with CF if their team was winning a campaign only to be stomped by a GM. A force they have basically no hope against since GMs would have unlimited resources. 

An important thing to think about with this is that events such as these take significant planning in order to ensure they are fun. Take a typical MMO dungeon for example. You could just make it wicked hard (think master raider level), but unless that’s the crowd you’re targeting, people will get frustrated and quit. You could make it super easy, but then it’s just boring for everyone. 

My point is, leaving these decisions up to how a GM is feeling that day could cause real problems. While it could be fun, it would take a lot to manage it appropriately. 

I agree that random PvE events could be fun, and could provide additional layers of strategic gameplay as you mentioned. I’m just iffy about having a GM control it at his/her whim.

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How about like the original Shadowbane mechanic and have a featured beast character do this so it is not just an AI...   If the devs have any decent PvPers in their midst.   The fail there was the FC events I was in had the dev try to rally the players to fight the other devs army and the zerg simply won fast...   If it is the server vs the Dev FC who has some skills it would be fun, the dev doesn't see nameplates and all players are red.

Like a tough ass unpredictable world boss with a purpose...   not being lame :-)

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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11 minutes ago, Frykka said:

How about like the original Shadowbane mechanic and have a featured beast character do this so it is not just an AI...   If the devs have any decent PvPers in their midst.   The fail there was the FC events I was in had the dev try to rally the players to fight the other devs army and the zerg simply won fast...   If it is the server vs the Dev FC who has some skills it would be fun, the dev doesn't see nameplates and all players are red.

Like a tough ass unpredictable world boss with a purpose...   not being lame :-)

 

But again, only fun if it doesn’t mean that the dev decides the outcome of the campaign. I believe one of the major aspects of CF is players shaping the campaign worlds. Anything that takes that power away from players could become dangerous to the CF vision. 

Not saying stuff like this wouldn’t be fun. I can think of ways these things could work, I just don’t like them being at the whim of a GM. For example, having a summonable massive boss that failing campaign teams could bring about to basically say “we lost, but screw you”, could be a real blast.

Imagine the chaos team banding together to summon some horrible monster they know will wipe them, but that will leave order and balance clinging for their lives as well.

these concepts are fun ideas, I just cringe at giving GMs the power to decide a campaigns winner. 

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6 minutes ago, Avendis said:

I just cringe at giving GMs the power to decide a campaigns winner. 

that is why the GM wouldn't see nameplates or be able to attack player assets, only help the hunger remove resources, towns, POIs in the winter season so when the world ends there isn't much there to yield anymore anyway.

Of course you could end the world with a survival type event when the spawns increase freq and R10 AIs zoom in on the POIs....   That has predictablilty and lots of stuck mobs compared to a human driven avatar though...   always wanted to group fight vs a HI Boss

 

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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I've played games with both GM/employee controlled events/monsters and player summoned. To me, putting control into a potential player's isn't good. Even employees and GM types have affiliations and what not that might sway things, even if they don't mean to. Basically I don't trust other people. :ph34r:

Something I could see working is rather simple and WoW had it back in Vanilla. I'm sure there are other similar examples.

In the largest battleground of the time (AV 40v40), players could summon boss like creatures to roam an area smacking anyone that tried to go through. Believe it was summoned by killing enemy faction guards and turning in a certain number of item they dropped. 

This would be interesting in faction campaigns at least since each faction already has a built in "boss" aka God that could harm or help factions.

As they've come up with the Sacrifice system, something similar could be used to summon them.

Maybe they could be used to help siege a stronghold or some other event.

While having some PVE events that provided rewards and what not, I'd rather such things be more background and an extra element to the core game instead of a distraction or something everyone "must" do to compete. If it turns into whichever side camps and kills X boss wins, I'd be let down.

However, if they implement seasons and worsening conditions, having zombie hordes or whatever that start to swarm everyone equally, that would be a great extra challenge.

Adding more PVE stuff would be fine down the road, they have A LOT to finish beforehand.

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In a seemingly normal campaign:

A massive and horrid thing roams this new world. It ambles slowly from place to place without direction. It seems invincible, but may be avoided easily. A nuisance at best, it keeps to itself, perhaps infrequently blocking passage to somewhere you want to be or camping out at a mob spawn or cave. A few have tried to slay it but all have met with failure. Months pass, and most consider it an entertaining oddity.

Spring gives way to Summer and something strange happens. Seemingly at random a new sacrifical brazier erupts from the ground in the center of one keep. This is no simple carving of metal, but a living, twitching, writhing mass eager to snatch up any spare trinket tossed its way, and promising no reward.

Sacrifices to this brazier don't grant you XP, but as more and more sacrifices are placed within, you note that it begins to swirl and caress from the air a ball of green flame. It piques your curiosity, but you have a war to win and a world to salvage, so you resolve to just throw a few worthless things in now and then to see if anything new happens. Over time you note that the twitching hastens and the ball becomes ever larger and brighter.

Then, at three in the morning one night you put two leather in it and the flame jumps out of the brazier, high in to the sky, making a ballistic arc toward a random structure across the map. The three or four players there see the fireball, seemingly on a collision course with their tree, but in stead it simply hangs aloft in space, casting a brilliant light over the entire castle.

Then... they hear it...

AWOOOORRRGHH

They're used to seeing two shields and lines of catapults and bane trees surrounding this castle. They've fought off enemy armies countless times over the preceding months, but they've never seen anything like this. The display simply reads "Challenge <Their Guild> vs. The Behemoth" and in place of a shield is a foul symbol of ancient origin.

Your scouts confirm that the "minor nuisance" is headed in Their direction, slowly but in a direct line.

You note that the same horrid mark marks the place where the brazier once stood. It is now gone.

Their counter reads "Feed the old one or be consumed. Time remaining: 6 days"

A new brazier erupts from the ground in the center of their keep. It is no simple carving of metal, but a living, twitching, writhing mass eager to snatch up any spare trinket tossed its way. It promises nothing, but threatens annihilation. Of whom no one can be certain.

 

Mechanically, this "campaign modifier" chooses a random keep or fort to spawn the original brazier. Once fed, it casts the green "behemoth beacon" at a random target keep, and leaves the symbol to mark that this keep has "paid tribute" to the beast. Keeps marked in this way are excluded from further checks. The target has six days to feed the beast, which merely moves the beacon to a new random target, and leaves a tribute mark at their keep. Any keep which fails to pay tribute is utterly annihilated, the land fouled by the creature, and nothing can be built there again for the remainder of the campaign. At this point the brazier moves to another random keep/fort as it was originally.

No one gets to choose the target of the behemoth, only whether or not they will feed the beast when it comes calling. Once all keeps are either marked or befouled by the beast, it resumes its previous behavior and no further braziers spawn.

Modifying what the brazier will accept to add additional strain to campaign rules is preferable. E.G. have it only eat fort building supplies, only eat hunger sharrds, only eat filled soulgems, etc. etc. depending on what ACE wants the campaign to get scarce on.

Edited by PopeUrban
Edited in plaintext description of mechanic, in case it was unclear.

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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Hmmmm ... that would work in the Dregs.  A big nasty God mob that is summoned after you sacrifice a certain amount of stuff and then goes to the enemies beachhead and blows it open so you can kill everyone hiding in there.

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My favorite moment from WoW was gauging the main tank doing a world raid boss on a PvP server back in the vanilla days; it caused the dragon's agro table to go nuts.  Wiped their raid long enough for ours to run back and put up a proper fight.

While that could be fun in Crowfall, I think it would take too much work for not enough bank.  What did JTodd say?  "Not enough juice for the squeeze"?

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4 minutes ago, Zolaz said:

Hmmmm ... that would work in the Dregs.  A big nasty God mob that is summoned after you sacrifice a certain amount of stuff and then goes to the enemies beachhead and blows it open so you can kill everyone hiding in there.

Don't get used to having a Beachhead.  They'll only be around for the 3 faction campaigns.  Dregs will feel more like the current Bloodbath servers (you know, without the 3 faction part...)

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1 minute ago, Kith said:

Don't get used to having a Beachhead.  They'll only be around for the 3 faction campaigns.  Dregs will feel more like the current Bloodbath servers (you know, without the 3 faction part...)

We will see, most people don't like being spawn camped and killed over and over.  

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I feel like this would be a different game mode altogether, where the factions race to donate a set number of all profession items X wood X stone X jewelcraft XWoodwork once that is met then a chosen player can control a Large boss mob/multiple mobs become available (like vehicles but monsters) with specific attacks and go for the other teams base.  

Would be playable by 2023, cool idea though :)

Edited by randle10

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I don't care for the idea of "Open World Events" that are organized and world-announced.  It (to me) detracts from the idea of CF and what the CWs are supposed to be, and makes it too easy for account-stablers working / playing all sides of events for farming purposes.

I AM more in favor of the "living world" concept where artifacts / resources / and, potentially "events" might be found or triggered . . . by exploring players out on the map where PvP lives.

In other words:  less arena-esque theme-parking, more embedding into the world-artifacts for the players to randomly find as the world is explored.

I gave a suggestion once that illustrates one potential aspect of this:  Archaeology Digs, leveraging voxels for the excavation/uncovering process.  The idea is to have something "hidden", or perhaps subtle queues something might be there (e.g. part of a statue / rubble sticking up out of the ground, and by virtue of some investigation "Ancient Ruins" are discovered).  Which then has to be excavated and cleared to see what might be there.  Functionally these would be stocked with some amount of resources/goods/finds that then have to be packed out and transported safely.

Again, all of that activity occurring in the open-world pvp environment.

  • Not scheduled or announced.
  • Generated/found as a result of player exploration of the map, as opposed to fish-food dropped into the tank by a GM.

it's at this point imagination could take that in all sorts of directions, from having different tiers of ruins, doors that might have to be broken down or lockpicked open, or spawned guardians to be defeated, etc.

Taking the concept sideways, we might imagine (for instance) a tribe of natives on the dying worlds (npcs).  Friendly?  Hostile?  willing to negotiate?  scared/mad at you?, and based on some kind of player vs NPC cultural interaction . . . a particular "world event" might initiate:  Say the tribe goes bonkers over discovering YOU, the invaders, who have "clearly" caused the end of the world . . . you beady-eyed, double-talking demons you . . . and what ensues is a World Event made up of the Tribe going on the attack across the maps.

You defend your places, defeat the enemy (npc), along with whatever chaos ensues between all the real player guilds, etc. . . . and some form of goods/materials/items might be gleaned from the ruins of their villages.

I would only envision active NPC encounters like this as being rare.  What I've outlined is the flavor of how one might construct "PvE Events" in the spirit of the living-breathing-but-dying world more in line with what CF is in my mind.  That more enhances the world environment itself for the sake of diversity and interest, while not acting as an open-door to diluting PvP focus.

In all cases the idea here is these are aspects of the Conflict WORLD for players to discover (meaning there is an element of randomness to triggering/finding them) . . then work out . . . on the PvP map.

My .02 anyway.

Edited by Bramble

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