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Malic-Valdon

I need talking points

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5 minutes ago, Zolaz said:

@Malic-Valdon like most games this wont be P2W it will be Z2W (Zerg to Win).  Your zerg guild will fit right in.  You can play for a month or two declare victory and then leave.

I suspect its not going to take a zerg to kill you, you'll likely be one of the the 10% that cry on the forums because you died in a PVP zone in a manner you didnt deem fitting. 

Maybe we'll see you out there, who knows. You bet we'll zerg you, snowflake. 

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12 minutes ago, blazzen said:

What games does your guild play right now? Have they never played a subscription based game before? The VIP subscription isn't that big of a deal, IMO. 

$0.50 per day is pretty damn cheap entertainment. Just buy a VIP subscription.

Also worth noting that RIGHT NOW you get VIP benefits as long as you have just 1 month of VIP. The VIP month's won't be consumed until the game launches. 

Im not saying its a big deal or its cost prohibitive. I simply tried to encourage my guild to try and these were the comments I got from them. 

 

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. Take care. 

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30 minutes ago, Malic-Valdon said:

I suspect its not going to take a zerg to kill you, you'll likely be one of the the 10% that cry on the forums because you died in a PVP zone in a manner you didnt deem fitting. 

Maybe we'll see you out there, who knows. You bet we'll zerg you, snowflake. 

New_Tears_of_Joy_Emoji_Icon.png?11214052

 

lol

Didnt happen in Dragon Realms when I played Stolas, the nastiest Tezirite ever played.  Didnt happen on the the PvP servers of Everquest, Wow, SWTOR, Allods, UO, Warhammer Online and a few other games I dont recall off the top of my head .  Didnt happen when I was accused of destorying Treachery in Shadowbane.  Didnt happen in Eve when I was in 0.0. 

I was an US Army Infantry officer and done more stuff than you have probably dreamed about doing.  I have walked in the Valley of the Shadow of Death.  I am probably not the one who is going to be crying.  But, who knows, it could happen.  The best indicator of future performance is past performance. I know how to live in the suck and to train others to do the same.  I know myself, my enemy and where we fight.  So, I wish you the best of luck, my friend.

I wouidnt call me a snowflake, though I believe in the Constitution and the Ideals of America.  I definitely believe in feeding the Tree of Liberty.  Im more of a Social Justice Warlord and you can take that "thank you for your service" turn it sideways and put it somewhere that makes polite people blush.

Personally, I would prefer having a beer with my online frenemies.  Talk is cheap, BS runs a marathon and Game recognizes Game.   I dont need a zerg to kill, I just need time and inclination.

stock-vector-female-and-male-hands-holdi

 

Have a good one.

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1 hour ago, Destrin said:

Can you provide a link for this information? I don't remember that ever being mentioned.

I gave a effort in trying to find it. Its in the Dev forums under one of the DOZENS of skill training/VIP threads. 

Essentially it was a comment that VIP wont ever be P2W because it can be earned in-game and the rewards cannot be stacked on a single account.

 

Obviously you can take the earned part in alot of different directions. It might of been purposely vague because they hadent visited that in terms of brainstorming. 


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1 minute ago, Vectious said:

I gave a effort in trying to find it. Its in the Dev forums under one of the DOZENS of skill training/VIP threads. 

Essentially it was a comment that VIP wont ever be P2W because it can be earned in-game and the rewards cannot be stacked on a single account.

 

Obviously you can take the earned part in alot of different directions. It might of been purposely vague because they hadent visited that in terms of brainstorming. 

Cheers, much appreciated.

I know that they have talked about earning it via in-game methods.  I always took that to mean farm for goods (or trade in game currency) in game and trade it to someone who has purchased the VIP token.  This is how it works in every other game I have played that allows you to sell game time.


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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Truth is we all have no idea how much of an edge VIP will give you, but to claim it wont give any edge is disingenuous.   It is pay to advance quicker, that is clearly what it is how much of an actually power impact it will have that's the debate but only saying its pay to win is on the side of truth anyone that says its not is disingenuous. 

The argument/talking points for a honest person is how much of an impact VIP will have not that it will or will not.

Honesty is the best policy, dont be that hype guy lying to guildmates.    

Personally I feel ESO did it right just more inventory space and other quality of life improvements.   Crowfall would be well smart dumping the extra training slot for VIP and instead just keeping the longer Banked time, or adding some other quality of life improvement for VIP... extra inventory space is a very safe choice.  

Quality of life improvements for a fee is smart and fair, the fans that play a lot will buy it regardless or the folks with extra money to burn.

 

All you hardcore fans would serve the future of this game much better if you suggested things quality of life VIP perks instead of backing the terrible idea of VIP giving more combat/crafting advancement to an account.  

 

Whats pathetic is some of you are Shadowbane players been around awhile you are older and should be wiser to the ways of the world.   Perception is important the current VIP plan creates a huge perception of pay to win true or not that's how it reads and its hard very hard to defend it currently against focuses arguments.

What we have right now is an echo chamber of fans..... NOT good nothing good comes from echo chambers.

 

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6 minutes ago, Xomox said:

Whats pathetic is some of you are Shadowbane players been around awhile you are older and should be wiser to the ways of the world. 

 

I think a lot of people who grew older and saw their favorite sandbox mmos being closed because it didn't made enough money.


 

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27 minutes ago, Xomox said:

Truth is we all have no idea how much of an edge VIP will give you, but to claim it wont give any edge is disingenuous.   It is pay to advance quicker

I think it is disingenuous to say it is "pay to advance quicker" because people will presume that you can literally train skills faster. You can't.

A VIP Blacksmith and a non-VIP Blacksmith train Blacksmithing at exactly the same speed.

If you are going to complain about the VIP it would be better to be honest about what it is giving.


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1 hour ago, Jah said:

A VIP Blacksmith and a non-VIP Blacksmith train Blacksmithing at exactly the same speed.

There are some problem issues currently with how the training works, it does let you train some things faster. For example, with VIP you could be training both Fighter and Barbarian at the same time (and have a stronger Champion faster than a nonVIP). Hopefully that will be addressed with some training restrictions.

The intent with VIP is to give players more flexibility - training in more profession choices and more race/class choices. That is only an advantage to a guild in the same way that having alternate characters is in any MMO. 


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1 hour ago, Jah said:

I think it is disingenuous to say it is "pay to advance quicker" because people will presume that you can literally train skills faster. You can't.

A VIP Blacksmith and a non-VIP Blacksmith train Blacksmithing at exactly the same speed.

If you are going to complain about the VIP it would be better to be honest about what it is giving.

You're statement is exactly what disingenuous is... you know full well VIP gives you the ability to advance in something in addition to Blacksmitting

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1 minute ago, Xomox said:

you know full well VIP gives you the ability to advance in something in addition to Blacksmitting

You could do that by buying a second account for $50 also. VIP needs to be at least as valuable as that option, or no one would pay for it.


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Anyway I understand the worry of a game dying for lack of funding.

Just simple advice to the Crowfall community... recommend trying a VIP system with just quality of life improvements inventory etc.... a light touch get creative.    I paid for the crafting bag inventory space for ESO as did many others.  

Pay to win is a death knell for MMO's in North America and the perception on Crowfall is that's what its become.   Its a very weak position defending it.  

Try something else first.

Edited by Xomox

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2 hours ago, Xomox said:

Personally I feel ESO did it right just more inventory space and other quality of life improvements.

Don't you have to buy the DLC or expansions to get access to the stuff that drops better gear in ESO? You might as well argue that DLC and expansions are p2w as well.


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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2 minutes ago, miraluna said:

You could do that by buying a second account for $50 also. VIP needs to be at least as valuable as that option, or no one would pay for it.

You don't know what people will pay for, I would pay $100 a month just for inventory because its nothing to me, others that would be crazy.    Find the balance, right now the VIP system is turning off players, I had the same conversation with people in my guild as the OP.   That should be major concern to people that want this game to do well.

The early fans good intentions are not helping in this case, really help the Crowfall dev team with ideas of VIP percks that remove the game killing Pay to Win tag it earning atm.

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2 minutes ago, Destrin said:

Don't you have to buy the DLC or expansions to get access to the stuff that drops better gear in ESO? You might as well argue that DLC and expansions are p2w as well.

Aye people do but the expansion content is what the PvE players eat up its not a 1 to 1 the new class warden pay to win argument could be made but its a hard one as expansions help keep a game alive.   But the topic is not expansions its monthly fees that give perks.... nuance matters.

I'm not hear promoting ESO I'm pointing out the monthly fee for ESO plus draws them money without the pay to win tag.   I'm recommending Crowfall community helps the Dev team come up with quality of life ideas for VIP.

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Just now, miraluna said:

In Crowfall, selling inventory slots would be even more P2W - ask any harvester or crafter ;)

But it would not get the pay to win perception for that...   the extra space is a quality of life thing.   Its nice as a crafter Ill pay for more space have and do, its a safe non-pay to win method.

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17 minutes ago, Xomox said:

You're statement is exactly what disingenuous is... you know full well VIP gives you the ability to advance in something in addition to Blacksmitting

The ability to train two different professions is very different than the ability to train one more quickly. I've noticed that most people that want to cry "Pay To Win" ignore that distinction, including you.

You can't actually play multiple roles at the same time, so being able to train multiple roles does not give anything like the advantage that "advance quicker" implies.

Edited by Jah

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40 minutes ago, Xomox said:

Aye people do but the expansion content is what the PvE players eat up its not a 1 to 1 the new class warden pay to win argument could be made but its a hard one as expansions help keep a game alive.   But the topic is not expansions its monthly fees that give perks.... nuance matters.

I'm not hear promoting ESO I'm pointing out the monthly fee for ESO plus draws them money without the pay to win tag.   I'm recommending Crowfall community helps the Dev team come up with quality of life ideas for VIP.

ESO also have an very well established and known IP backing the game up, that alone can sell MANY MANY copies on its own, where crowfall is a brand new IP, so is really not a fair comparison

 

Another thing noone mentioned is that you don't even need VIP at all to get max training, as you can with tomes buy training time from other players, and no tome can make you excess the amount of training a day 1 VIP would have

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