Xomox

Assassin Worst Solo Class?

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Seems to me the need for exact positioning for backstabs Assassin main spamable really limits the class.    Sure you have disc. that gives you auto backstab for a time however it costs resources.

With a team mate doing CC it would decent no doubt but solo really going to do poorly in the long run.    The damage on the non-backstab attack is horrible.  

Been playing Assassin style classes for near 20 years, this need for positioning without more ways to gain it will be an issue.   Worst there is not viable other options that another class is going to do much better.  

Solo I just feel a lot more powerful on Champ, Ranger or Duelist the gap is really large.

I know there is zero need to be tied to one class and I liked duelist anyway right off the bat, but I would like to see Assassin have other non-position based viable builds.   Seems even in chat people see Assassin as free kills for the most part.

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Well, as we tell everyone who talks about classes performing solo - game is not being balanced around 1v1, that said, assa is actually really strong running solo.
With lower CD from Vessel training, you can almost hold a target stun locked with Kidney Shot alone - then positioning is really easy.

But generally I don't have trouble getting the backstab off, just practice your circle strafing in melee combat.

Edit*
You can also just depend on your LMB attacks for pips, try with advanced axes and use the armor break from Master of Axes, then you do fine damage with LMB.

Edited by Yumx

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6 hours ago, Yumx said:

Well, as we tell everyone who talks about classes performing solo - game is not being balanced around 1v1, that said, assa is actually really strong running solo.
With lower CD from Vessel training, you can almost hold a target stun locked with Kidney Shot alone - then positioning is really easy.

But generally I don't have trouble getting the backstab off, just practice your circle strafing in melee combat.

Edit*
You can also just depend on your LMB attacks for pips, try with advanced axes and use the armor break from Master of Axes, then you do fine damage with LMB.

I mostly posted this just so newer players that like assassin style play get a heads up on what to expect, most folks pick those classes because they are solo viable.

Probably would do just fine in a group but it seem to be the worst solo class.   Sure you can say the game is not a solo game but there are clearly stronger classes for solo.

Position based attacks are very hard to pull off once people get past potato level gameplay.   I'm reminded of WoW area, no rogue played the backstab based builds at high rating.  It was all Sub or Combat and those rogues has super combat speed buff of sprint along with more mez style CC and the good old stuns.   Assassin is going to struggle 1v1 1v2 etc.. 

Overall the class skills do not fit its get behind the target centered main attack, outside of KS the rest does not fit.   Example if the movement skill would put you behind the target on the return with a snare that would help.   Needs a bit more to help with movement.

Add in enemy bodies being un-passable, I just don't see a position based class doing well.   Not too worked up over it, I just like talking game balance decided on Duelist right off the bat anyway, also like Champ for other reasons.

 

Really no point talking about LMB other classes can do the same and have good non-position attacks.  

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this is also good feedback for ACE to consider. Maybe KS could be an appendix shot for front facing.

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There is a major disc that makes attacking from the front deal the same amount as from behind. Look into it if you are constantly finding yourself "positionally challenged" ;) 

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blackmask has a buff "All attacks count as if you are attacking from behind your targets while active"...then you can spam backstab (just one more thing on your toolbar.

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On 18.02.2018 at 12:20 AM, Yumx said:

Well, as we tell everyone who talks about classes performing solo - game is not being balanced around 1v1

say it unbalanced classes

ofc zerg is OP but dont be so naive or what kind of people keep talking about "game is not being balanced around 1v1"

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I know blackmask, it requires resources.  

Not saying its a totally gimp class, kind of easy ganking soft targets but I don't expect a lot of soft targets will be solo gathering, dropping Knights/Clerics is another matter.   Perhaps I'm too focused on the 1v1s or what happens when you don't get the jump on someone.    Really hard to say how it shakes down as gear and stats increase.

However I did do some Min/Max calculations and with race combos a lot of the stuff Assassins need to do well is going to scale strongly with deep training.   The Fae/Elf choices should bring a power boost for the min/max burst.  

In fact due to my looking at training combos and what races will do what roles.... I'm dumping the Hamster/monster/underfoot training going Sylvan/Fae as it has more class combos that will be min/max ready for more class/rolls.   If Assassin is in a weak spot easier to transition onto other classes and be min/max ready.  

Training for Duelist + Hamster is very limited as monster + underfoot is not boosting Int or Dex near where other combos are, putting the Hamster in the spot of all in on Dualist as they will not make good min/max clerics or knights.

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I have solely played the assassin since it came out on 5.4 on test and live. The assassin is the complete opposite of a gimped solo class.  Landing backstab is not difficult when the base kit and discs are used depending on the fight or situation. Backstab should not be spammed but rotated in when possible. Stuns/diffusion's/poisons/ disengage & reengage/ ult  allow for very high risk but rewarding play.  I'm in complete agreement with Yumx that the circle strafing and knowing when to use LMB over backstab are both extremely important.

When you can properly utilize the base kit/discs,  killing armored classes is not a problem just a matter of skill and experience .  The right poison or disc can devastate healers and prevent/ reduce healing throughout the battle. I have successfully killed many targets(soft and armored targets that have advanced gear) within viewing distance of there guild or faction and gotten away clean.  Sometimes you do get caught but that all a part of the high risk/ reward gameplay. 1v2 1v3s are possible if you play your cards right. Knowing when and what targets to attack is key and can only be learned through experience.

 

 

Edited by WildOne

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Assassin is a great solo class. 

They're not so great in small to medium scale group fights. They get focus fired pretty hard once they're out of stealth. 

I imagine they'll be decent in large scale sieges if they're able to pick their spots and blend so they don't get focused. Easier to do that once numbers get up towards the 30+ range on each side of a fight. 

Edited by blazzen

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Assassin is by far one of the strongest solo classes out there currently. A properly build assassin is also super strong in team fights.

If anything, the assassin is one of the most op classes in game right now. People just have no clue what to do with it.

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This is pretty much what I gathered from the OP.

>played it a little bit of Assassin
>died in my first pvp fight
>can't find obvious OP solution
>conclude class is underpowered and one of the worst in game
>warn people on the forums of something that is completely untrue because of "reasons"

Having class abilities that are positional isn't new in MMOs. A lot of stealth classes in MMOs have specific positional requirements for abilities to even go off in the first place. Having Backstab work on the sides and front of a target just adds another layer of skill to using it. Same for any other ability that's like it. You basically need to be working on getting into position of your target 100% of the time while playing as an Assassin. Anyone can figure that out quickly just by reading the Assassin abilities in their spell book.

This goes for any class. Either learn to play it or move on. If you can't learn any of the classes, then move onto a different game. It isn't like any of them are difficult to figure out how to play.

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Well I been doing MMOs along time, I base everything on will my class be able to fill a slot in the high level groups and can I beat the best player/classes with it.

It's specific requirement, I know what kinds of mechanics in games allow this.   I'm a min/max try hard.

I don't put a lot of weight on early ganking in MMOs or really anything early players say its mostly all wrong and formed from fighting new undergeared players, or the knowledge of what numbers and stats to min/max is not common yet. 

Its always easy at the start, once people learn and are geared the positional stuff becomes a larger issue.    Give it time.

Still there is always a role in a open world pvp game for stealth with burst no doubt, I just like build options that let me choose a more up front toe to toe style, combat rogue.... back stab being a large part of assassin limits that dueling style.

 

Edited by Xomox

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I Just think you jumped the gun on this post. Without the proper experience and hours playing this class its easy to mislead new or old players who are looking into playing the assassin for the first time. Everyone has different experiences and play styles. If your looking for a brawling class that stands there and does not move this is not the class for you.

The Assassin in Crowfall is clearly not your definition of a rouge class. Changing your play-style or just practicing more may change your opinion when you are truly able to understand the class. Gaining insight from others who have posted in this thread would be also a good idea. People other then yourself have clearly been successful with playing this class solo and have not had the personal difficulties and challenges that you are experiencing . You should pm someone for tips or ask for help. You truly seem to have not spent much time training with this class (specifically in Crowfall)

Edited by WildOne

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32 minutes ago, Xomox said:

Well I been doing MMOs along time, I base everything on will my class be able to fill a slot in the high level groups and can I beat the best player/classes with it.

It's specific requirement, I know what kinds of mechanics in games allow this.   I'm a min/max try hard.

I don't put a lot of weight on early ganking in MMOs or really anything early players say its mostly all wrong and formed from fighting new undergeared players, or the knowledge of what numbers and stats to min/max is not common yet. 

Its always easy at the start, once people learn and are geared the positional stuff becomes a larger issue.    Give it time.

Still there is always a role in a open world pvp game for stealth with burst no doubt, I just like build options that let me choose a more up front toe to toe style, combat rogue.... back stab being a large part of assassin limits that dueling style.

 

So are you talking about assassin currently or assassin perhaps after a 100 changes to the skills, classes, races and overall gameplay?

If we right now, with current classes, skills and mechanics took fully maxed skills, vessels and top gear the assassin would still be taking a role in every 20v20 fight.

Not only that, i can guarantee you that there would be more than a few of them in each team. Even if perception vs stealth worked properly.

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I did not bring it up but as pointed out, there is also the issue of perception not working atm giving an inflated view of lining up attack to what will really be possible.

Again I'm talking about the positional requirement part of the class only, that always becomes an issue for the in and out burst melee class where there are a lot of snares stuns etc...  with perception and strait up hardcounters for stealth there needs to be options for when stealth gets shut down.

You are all too quick with dismissing what I'm saying, I could go on about every MMO reaching the highest ratings in PvP WoW GW1/2 where they had ratings or more subjective skill rating in other games ESO DAoC, Aion etc.... but unlikely folks here will think that consistent top standings in all games relates to anything here.  

This will however be read by others down the road that understand high level play and what class mechanics drive whats considered high level viable.   

My ideal solution would be a viable attack to replace the positional one with if that be your build choice, perhaps that will happen down the road who knows its still early. 

Edited by Xomox

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Real question how long have you attempted to play this class(in crowfall) before starting this post?.

Your so called high level game-play knowledge seems like a deflection. Pretty ovb your main problem is your lack of experience with the assassin in this game and you have no idea how to  set up the "positional requirement" or stun. Your not the only one in this game who has mmo experience... Previous mmo experience has nothing to do with your personal performance with the assassin(in crowfall) if your unable to hit the target or maneuver to the back of them during the fight that is a personal problem. Practice more instead of misleading people yet again.....

Edited by WildOne

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