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RNG

Runemaking Question (Tools + Experimentation)

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Can anyone fill me in on this? I have been getting bits and pieces from previous forums posts but someone school me.

I have my Runemaking Experimentation Success + Points maxed out in the skill tree, along with assembly success. Using crafting potions I am having trouble just making a half decent pickaxe.

So last night, as an example, I made a "Common" pickaxe, went to experiment on it and said screw it and dropped all experimentation points at one time, got a "great success" which bumped it up to like +50-60 (I cant remember exactly)

Then I make a couple "Blue" pickaxes, I do a full experimentation at one time and it is "Successful" and it literally goes to maybe +23ish.

I make another "blue" and do it 1 by 1 on experimentation points and it caps out maybe around +32.

Now I am hearing people are getting around the 60-75ish areas pretty consistantly. So what am I doing wrong here, do I have to go Epic and higher in quality or am I just getting RNG'd. I have heard it is better to go for around 50% risk at a time for better results but no verification on it.

Any input would be helpful, my brain hurts.

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Hello,

i have completed the runemaking skill tree (everything except the thralls).


I always use 2 points and get with uncommon materials like +40-50 tools (with test potions)

Maybe try it with 2 points / 2 points / ...

The better the material the more points you can use for experimentations  
 

Kind regards
Dragotek

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You get a bonus from experimenting at 50%+ risk. If you have an even number of experimentation points you can get the risk bonus twice by using half of the points each time. I highly recommend you experiment this way if you want the best possible results.

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1 hour ago, RNG said:

Can anyone fill me in on this? I have been getting bits and pieces from previous forums posts but someone school me.

I have my Runemaking Experimentation Success + Points maxed out in the skill tree, along with assembly success. Using crafting potions I am having trouble just making a half decent pickaxe.

So last night, as an example, I made a "Common" pickaxe, went to experiment on it and said screw it and dropped all experimentation points at one time, got a "great success" which bumped it up to like +50-60 (I cant remember exactly)

Then I make a couple "Blue" pickaxes, I do a full experimentation at one time and it is "Successful" and it literally goes to maybe +23ish.

I make another "blue" and do it 1 by 1 on experimentation points and it caps out maybe around +32.

Now I am hearing people are getting around the 60-75ish areas pretty consistantly. So what am I doing wrong here, do I have to go Epic and higher in quality or am I just getting RNG'd. I have heard it is better to go for around 50% risk at a time for better results but no verification on it.

Any input would be helpful, my brain hurts.

crafting passive skill training or test craft alchemy potions determine your "maximum number" of experiment pips

the quality of resources used determine the maximum that you can actually spend

jbmP9C5.png

the result will be more powerful the more "risk" you take

e.g. doing an 8 pip at once AMAZING SUCCESS roll will give a greater value than doing x8 seperate x1 pip AMAZING SUCCESS expierments would

50% risk is generally the sweet spot people go for - but the best will be full in risk when we can blueprint them

Edited by Tinnis

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1 hour ago, RNG said:

Thanks Tinnis,

So is there anyway to manipulate what kind of success you get, or is it all pretty much RNG at this point?

also skill training / cheat potion to determine your chances of success too [but obviously more risk still generally applies]

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1 hour ago, Tinnis said:

50% risk is generally the sweet spot people go for - but the best will be full in risk when we can blueprint them

There is no additional bonus for going higher than 50% experimentation risk.

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1 minute ago, Jah said:

There is no additional bonus for going higher than 50% experimentation risk.

okay, hah. funky. more critical failure rolls to think about ? <shrug>

Edited by Tinnis

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I find doing batches of 20 at a time and doing big experiment rolls really helps.
You don't need super high end mats, but it certainly helps. I've started just using greens and it's basically all you need for high end picks. Anything above a moderate on a single 7 pip experiment will land you in pretty high numbers. A 7 pip moderate gets me about a 26 or 27 I think it is, which is usable for low end.

febcda4826.jpg

This is my best without pots

bb4482af2f.jpg

This is my best with.
I usually get about 10 good tools out of every 20, which isn't bad. Some might say it's a waste of mats, but you win some and you lose some, that's just a fact.
Still trying to figure out how to really work the durability rolls though, because I don't think big rolls cut it most of the time.

Edited by Groovin

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May I ask what the risk was on the "All In 7 Pip" on each of those? I am trying to gauge where I am at. I think I have one more pip to go on the experimentation success skill before the runemaking line is capped out.

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The 86 pick was an Amazing, and the 70 was a Great
and just for reference if I rolled a 7 pip Good, with my current stats, it'd probably get me a 60 or so

Edited by Groovin

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@Groovin In your above example, the potions do not really impact "the best you can make".  You can, in fact, get +86 with or without potions.  A 7 PIP Amazing is the "cap" for a green tool and that result can be achieved once you have at least 7 PIPS.  The potion just increases the chance of getting a good roll. 

Also, you will be far better off rolling 6 & 6.  While it will have a negligible impact on spread of +mining on your picks, you will see a much better yield on durability (which actually matters on tools).

@RNG You don't need to know what percent a 7 PIP roll is.  Getting the bonus is very simple: Use half or more of your PIPs on a single roll and you will get the bonus.  That is it.  So if you have 12 PIPs, roll 6 & 6.  If you have 20 PIPs, roll 10 & 10.  If you have 15 PIPs, roll 8 & 7 (note: 8 is more than half, 7 is less).  That is why having an even number of PIPs is advantageous (both rolls are bonus).  You can, to some degree, manipulate this with the "experimentation points" potion.  That potion adds .8 PIPs and only whole numbers count.  So by either using or not using it, you can usually get yourself to an even number.

Generally, crafting in this game is very reliant on RNG.  You can make tools with white quality materials that turn out better than ones with legendary materials.  That is just how it works.  Think of the quality of the materials as the potential a crafted item has.  For example (made up numbers):

White quality - Results from 0-50
Green quality - Results from 0-60
Blue quality - Results from 0-70

In the above example, you can still make a 0 with every single quality material.  The only thing that changes is on the high end, which is achieved entirely by RNG.  Obviously, over time, better materials with yield better results, but in any one specific instance you can fail miserably.

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6 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

@Groovin In your above example, the potions do not really impact "the best you can make".  You can, in fact, get +86 with or without potions.  A 7 PIP Amazing is the "cap" for a green tool and that result can be achieved once you have at least 7 PIPS.  The potion just increases the chance of getting a good roll. 

Also, you will be far better off rolling 6 & 6.  While it will have a negligible impact on spread of +mining on your picks, you will see a much better yield on durability (which actually matters on tools).

@RNG You don't need to know what percent a 7 PIP roll is.  Getting the bonus is very simple: Use half or more of your PIPs on a single roll and you will get the bonus.  That is it.  So if you have 12 PIPs, roll 6 & 6.  If you have 20 PIPs, roll 10 & 10.  If you have 15 PIPs, roll 8 & 7 (note: 8 is more than half, 7 is less).  That is why having an even number of PIPs is advantageous (both rolls are bonus).  You can, to some degree, manipulate this with the "experimentation points" potion.  That potion adds .8 PIPs and only whole numbers count.  So by either using or not using it, you can usually get yourself to an even number.

Generally, crafting in this game is very reliant on RNG.  You can make tools with white quality materials that turn out better than ones with legendary materials.  That is just how it works.  Think of the quality of the materials as the potential a crafted item has.  For example (made up numbers):

White quality - Results from 0-50
Green quality - Results from 0-60
Blue quality - Results from 0-70

In the above example, you can still make a 0 with every single quality material.  The only thing that changes is on the high end, which is achieved entirely by RNG.  Obviously, over time, better materials with yield better results, but in any one specific instance you can fail miserably.

This is what I kind of figured after getting that high +60 on my "Common" hammer. Thanks for the information on the PIP usage, I will try it out later tonight. Highest pick I have yielded so far is a +47 on a blue but I wasn't using the PIP"s effectively like you comment on in your post. Some extra completed training since then should help as well.

Thanks for all your time guys.

Edited by RNG

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using 2 -2 - 2 instead of 6 has it's uses.. 6 is gambling and will result in many failures, 2-2-2 wil yield more stable results around half of what a good roll for 6 is

if you prefer to make 10 tools at around +30, instead of having 2 with +- 40 to 60 and some failures, it depends ultimatly on what you favor to make. Gambling will make more sense when blueprints come around. I tested a lot without the potions, if you unlucky it can take a couple tries before you get that +60 the hard way...

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45 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

@Groovin In your above example, the potions do not really impact "the best you can make".  You can, in fact, get +86 with or without potions.  A 7 PIP Amazing is the "cap" for a green tool and that result can be achieved once you have at least 7 PIPS.  The potion just increases the chance of getting a good roll. 

Also, you will be far better off rolling 6 & 6.  While it will have a negligible impact on spread of +mining on your picks, you will see a much better yield on durability (which actually matters on tools).

 

more or less I was getting at that I currently have 12 pips. if I had 15 pips, like you said I wouldn't have that bonus if I rolled 7. that said, I feel like I understand the system a lot better from this thread, so thanks

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1 minute ago, Groovin said:

more or less I was getting at that I currently have 12 pips. if I had 15 pips, like you said I wouldn't have that bonus if I rolled 7. that said, I feel like I understand the system a lot better from this thread, so thanks

You don't have to roll them all in one thing.  Using the 15 PIP example, you could put 7 in "grade" and 1 in "durability".  That would count as an 8 PIP roll.

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2 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

You don't have to roll them all in one thing.  Using the 15 PIP example, you could put 7 in "grade" and 1 in "durability".  That would count as an 8 PIP roll.

you just blew my mind. I didn't think of it that way.

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29 minutes ago, Kirchhoff said:

You don't have to roll them all in one thing.  Using the 15 PIP example, you could put 7 in "grade" and 1 in "durability".  That would count as an 8 PIP roll.

So, if you do this though isn't the risk going to remain the same? If you had 10 Pips and did 5 in Grade and 5 in Durability on ONE roll, would the risk be the same as going lets say a straight 10 Pips in Grade?

Or is the risk generated per Stat, I havent even tried this.

Edited by RNG

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9 minutes ago, RNG said:

So, if you do this though isn't the risk going to remain the same? If you had 10 Pips and did 5 in Grade and 5 in Durability on ONE roll, would the risk be the same as going lets say a straight 10 Pips in Grade?

Or is the risk generated per Stat, I havent even tried this.

Only thing that matters is the total number of PIPs used during the roll, not how you distribute them.  So, yes, spending 5 in Grade and 5 in Durability would be the same as spending 10 in Grade.

In fact, you will "even out" the curve of your crafts if you split your rolls up like that.  That is, doing 2 rolls that are each at 5 in Grade and 5 in Durability, will offer a "less extreme" curve of results than rolling 10 in Grade and then 10 in Durability.  Essentially, you will end up with less really bad ones and less really good ones and tend more toward an "average".  Simply because rolling a 0 on a single roll is more likely than with 2 rolls.  Similarly, rolling an amazing with 1 roll is more likely than with 2 as well.

So, you can use statistical probability to your advantage, depending on which results you are looking for.  For example, when making white tools, you might want to just YOLO all your PIPs in Grade (because anything less than a great or amazing roll is worthless - and you don't have enough space to spend your PIPs anyway).  However, with blue tools, using the above method might be advantageous because an "average" blue tool might be valuable.  That is just an example of some of the decisions you can make as a crafter.  The impact is not huge (and is only noticed with large amounts of crafts) and is very much a function of missing features (blueprints and factory production).

Happy crafting!

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