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maarvy

A PvP MMO for the first generation of gamers - A gap in the market

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Since were currently backing a page of text .... I thought I'd get my thoughts on how this new mystery mmo should look . I'd realy love to see a open PvP mmo that isnt the time consuming monster of games of the past .

NO LEVELING
Thats right I said it , no leveling whatsoever . Whichever system the devs build for creating a charecter should be completed at charecter creation so everyone lands ingame with a endgame char ( starter geared )

Too long leveling your char has been a piss poor excuse for MMO content , sometimes ( quite often ) your compeled to do things that you need to do in order to level instead of the things you want to do . Even in the most openworld pvp mmos to date this has been the case .

 

Too long MMO designers have Divided there world in to levels to accommodate player progression .

 

Too long people have used there horrible chars as a excuse for sucking .

 

Too long people have been kept away from good games because there half a year behind the leveling curve

TIME FRAME
As I pointed to in the title many of the people already registered here have been around the pvp mmo scene since the very begining and thus quite a few of us are getting rather long  in  the tooth and short on free time . Its time for a pvp conquest mmo that can be played in a regular persons free time 2-3 hours .  For me this means you can log in for a few hours to farm and gear your char a good few times .... you can log in and siege or be sieged .... travel the world end to end for open pvp .

REAL GAMES MASTERS
These days a "GM" is the guy you send a tell when you need to cry about hackers or your inventory disapearing after a bug or some other stupid crap ...
No more , We need real GM's ones that make the game experiance better ... That monitor the game and focus on areas of interest , add traps to dungeons on the fly , spawn npcs armys to throw a  spanner in a player siege , add items to the world ...you get the idea .

LOOT
I've always been a fan of full loot in mmo's , however many games have struggled with this in the past . basicly getting and crafting gear should be very easy ... losing it all should also be very easy . All towns should have Individual banks that are fuly lootable after a siege . Idealy it should be possible for a player or guild to go from the hieght of weath to the poverty line and back again within a few play sessions .

WINNING AND THE WORLD
A conquest MMO should have a win condition in my opinion , so many time in Shadowbane or Darkfall the map would become stale with 1 super power owning way too much . Enough of that crap my ego aint too big to admit I lost and I'd like to be acnowlaged when I win . Once a alliance owns a significant % of the map theyy should be declared the winner and the map restarts . It would be awesome for that to affect the next world map too , for example citys that were razed too often become derelict and new ones appear , mob camps that were over farmed become extinct or migrate or get stronger , sites of huge past battle get memorials or changes in terain ( battle worn etc) .

Edited by maarvy

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I've never played a mmo where you were removed for bieng too low , apaprt from bieng calously kulled by someone 70 levels higher =) .

 

I've only ever played 3 mmos Ultima online , Shadowbane , Darkfall .

 

The rest have all been shallow instanced level treadmill affairs I despise with a passion and uninstall rather quickley .

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I think a system where you have built a engame char at creation would be a revelation tbh , you still get the possibiltys of some intricate template play ala Shadowbane and you can delete reroll on a whim . But the game needs some Real content , conqest and dynamic world to fill the void that removing leveling would leave in your regular MMO .

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Leveling IS the void in your regular MMO. Like the OP said, it's a bad excuse for content and it always has been.

 

Traditional MMOs have always been about requiring you to slog through tedious and staggeringly un-fun activities, simply to get to content that is actually fun. As if you must "earn" the right to have fun, by grinding through thick slabs of monotony.

 

Leveling needs to go, period. It's fine for pen and paper, but it just doesn't work in an MMO anymore. There are so many better ways to provide real content that actually matters.

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There is no reason leveling needs to go at all. Instant gratification power curves are the most wonderful thing ever tried in games. Its all about content and managing the expectation that there is no mystical level cap where the game all of a sudden becomes fun. Exploration+Leveling+Fun is the holy trinity. Sandparks with a custard MASSIVE timesink skill/level bell are the only way to provide players with a long term sense of self, and I hate to say it, revenue. Not 30 days to cap - but huge investments in time and character development that are FLUID and can be changed by the player. (floating skill caps - early UO, SB)

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There is no reason leveling needs to go at all. Instant gratification power curves are the most wonderful thing ever tried in games. Its all about content and managing the expectation that there is no mystical level cap where the game all of a sudden becomes fun. Exploration+Leveling+Fun is the holy trinity. Sandparks with a ****ing MASSIVE timesink skill/level bell are the only way to provide players with a long term sense of self, and I hate to say it, revenue. Not 30 days to cap - but huge investments in time and character development that are FLUID and can be changed by the player. (floating skill caps - early UO, SB)

 

Well I whole heartedly disagree with this 100% .

 

With a rich economy and diverse / changing world map there is no need to "level" , the world is populated by people collecting , crafting , trading , Fighting for power and resources .

 

Players should be kept engaged by the world , guild events , regular gm events , dynamic mobs , engaging politics , guild conflicts and so many other things and definetly NOT by how long they have sunk in to grinding another char for another MMO .

 

Another thing to point out about having levels for players and subsequently NPC's is you reduce the amount of viable activitys available around the map at any one time for everyone .  Every sandbox mmo ive played you fight the mobs of a particular level/rank and 9/10 times you will never go back to the lower spawns . likewise your slowly fed content from being low level and cant openly explore the map .

 

In a mmo witth no levels the whole map , every dungeon , every mob spawn would be designed for the maximum enjoyment of everyone from day 1 .

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totally agree...

 

 

how many people nowadays log into a new MMO without thinking "how do I level the quickest today"

 

 

people need to login and think "how can I have fun today"... like maarv said alrdy

 

the world is populated by people collecting , crafting , trading , Fighting for power and resources .

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people need to login and think "how can I have fun today"

 

well put.

 

reminds me of WoW. I had a chore list before I even logged in. Work on my first aid. Work on alchemy. Go find some flowers. Check the AH for mats. Work on fishing. etc, etc. I didn't log in thinking how I could have fun. I logged in knowing there was a quest log staring me in the face with a list of things to do to up my professions. Grind, grind, grind. Fun was on the back burner.

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I very much agree with Game Masters, Loot, and maybe even the winning the world.  I used to GM on a player ran UO shard and we all had such a blast when I would host events.  Whether they were planned events like orc raids, or a random undead rising in the graveyard for 2 people.  Just the randomness that anything could happen at anytime was exciting.

 

I've also always wanted what players did in the game to have an impact.  Why does that orc camp still exist after people have wiped it clean thousands of times?  Why does killing that dragon boss have absolutely no impact on the surrounding area and why does every single person get to participate in killing it at some point?  It's so much more exciting to tell all your friends how you got to be part of something unique.

 

Although I would have to disagree on the no leveling idea.  There needs to be some form of progression even if it is only 10% more damage from lvl 1 to 50 or 0 skill to 100. 

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I very much agree with Game Masters, Loot, and maybe even the winning the world.  I used to GM on a player ran UO shard and we all had such a blast when I would host events.  Whether they were planned events like orc raids, or a random undead rising in the graveyard for 2 people.  Just the randomness that anything could happen at anytime was exciting.

 

I've also always wanted what players did in the game to have an impact.  Why does that orc camp still exist after people have wiped it clean thousands of times?  Why does killing that dragon boss have absolutely no impact on the surrounding area and why does every single person get to participate in killing it at some point?  It's so much more exciting to tell all your friends how you got to be part of something unique.

 

 

Exactly , the term GM lost its meaning in video games shortly after UO .

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Since were currently backing a page of text .... I thought I'd get my thoughts on how this new mystery mmo should look . I'd realy love to see a open PvP mmo that isnt the time consuming monster of games of the past .

 

NO LEVELING

Thats right I said it , no leveling whatsoever . Whichever system the devs build for creating a charecter should be completed at charecter creation so everyone lands ingame with a endgame char .

Too long leveling your char has been a piss poor excuse for MMO content , sometimes ( quite often ) your compeled to do things that you need to do in order to level instead of the things you want to do . Even in the most openworld pvp mmos to date this has been the case .

 

Too long people have used there horrible chars as a excuse for sucking .

 

Too long people have been kept away from good games because there half a year behind the leveling curve

 

TIME FRAME

As I pointed to in the title many of the people already registered here have been around the pvp mmo scene since the very begining and thus quite a few of us are getting rather long  in  the tooth and short on free time . Its time for a pvp conquest mmo that can be played in a regular persons free time 2-3 hours .  For me this means you can log in for a few hours to farm and gear your char a good few times .... you can log in and siege or be sieged .... travel the world end to end for open pvp .

 

REAL GAMES MASTERS

These days a "GM" is the guy you send a tell when you need to cry about hackers or your inventory disapearing after a bug or some other stupid crap ...

No more , We need real GM's ones that make the game experiance better ... That monitor the game and focus on areas of interest , add traps to dungeons on the fly , spawn npcs armys to throw a  spanner in a player siege , add items to the world ...you get the idea .

 

LOOT

I've always been a fan of full loot in mmo's , however many games have struggled with this in the past . basicly getting and crafting gear should be very easy ... losing it all should also be very easy . All towns should have Individual banks that are fuly lootable after a siege . Idealy it should be possible for a player or guild to go from the hieght of weath to the poverty line and back again within a few play sessions .

 

WINNING AND THE WORLD

A conquest MMO should have a win condition in my opinion , so many time in Shadowbane or Darkfall the map would become stale with 1 super power owning way too much . Enough of that crap my ego aint too big to admit I lost and I'd like to be acnowlaged when I win . Once a alliance owns a significant % of the map theyy should be declared the winner and the map restarts . It would be awesome for that to affect the next world map too , for example citys that were razed too often become derelict and new ones appear , mob camps that were over farmed become extinct or migrate or get stronger , sites of huge past battle get memorials or changes in terain ( battle worn etc) .

I have heard this one over and over. Well an intersting thing happended during shadowbane emulator beta when they put tons of gold and gear on the server, you could have a maxed out your toon with the very best of everything and have him made in an hour. Peeps lost interest because they did not have their super toon advantage. So you would have thought that would make out for some really good banes and full scale pvp, however the server was quickly abandend (unbelievable fast). Even the Asians  stopped logging in.

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I have heard this one over and over. Well an intersting thing happended during shadowbane emulator beta when they put tons of gold and gear on the server, you could have a maxed out your toon with the very best of everything and have him made in an hour. Peeps lost interest because they did not have their super toon advantage. So you would have thought that would make out for some really good banes and full scale pvp, however the server was quickly abandend (unbelievable fast). Even the Asians stopped logging in.

Yes because the world of shadow bane was godamn craptastic there was pvp and leveling on mob camps that you barely needed to look at the screen to achive level 75 , and there was no gear loot so you never needed to replace what you had .

 

Realy what your saying is having no levels and instant gear didn't work in a title from 2003 that was never designed to have instant level 75's and was a skeleton of the game it was in its prime on a emulator preview . Its barely relevent to the post imo .

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I couldn't agree more with the idea of abandonning leveling. Just give us a deep character customization at creation (with stats, skills, and basic gear) and let's roll.

 

You can replace the leveling by usefull farming (to craft gear / build your town / construct siege weapons).

Farming profit can be shared among the whole guild. This evens the gap between people who can play 12h a day and those who can play 1h-2h a day.

XP, as it works today, can't be shared (or maybe in a way with powerleveling).

 

You could invent some kind of guild points that could be spent in skill trees in order to get additional options at character creation to enhance spec groups efficiency. Those bonus could also be earned by stocking X amount of whatever ressource, or by holding specific spots on the map.

 

Get rid of leveling. I'm sure you can come up with other ways to keep the players in the game.


Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't.

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I agree with the leveling/ grinding for the purpose of those of us who have busy lives.

But your looted gear seems to be the oppisite. If I don't have time to level, how do I have time to farm for my next piece of gear? Full loot simply encourages more people to run from fights, it destroys rally times for big fights, and is too time consuming. It would be much better to have a system in which gear broke, slowly... maybe it could be repaired, but lose strength, so resistance was lower, or the int boost was lower.

I would much rather see a system in which pvp gave a bonus rather than a constant let down, wether from people running from every fight, or from you losing your gear, the every time you die.


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I agree with the leveling/ grinding for the purpose of those of us who have busy lives.

 

But your looted gear seems to be the oppisite. If I don't have time to level, how do I have time to farm for my next piece of gear? Full loot simply encourages more people to run from fights, it destroys rally times for big fights, and is too time consuming. It would be much better to have a system in which gear broke, slowly... maybe it could be repaired, but lose strength, so resistance was lower, or the int boost was lower.

 

I would much rather see a system in which pvp gave a bonus rather than a constant let down, wether from people running from every fight, or from you losing your gear, the every time you die.

 

On the subject of looting I certainly feel where your coming from having full loot is kinda counter productive to the rest of my post and the general point im trying to make . However I feel it can be done correctly .

 

Like i said in the loot section I would see collecting gear as bieng very fast , kill one orc boss - get one full orc boss set of gear ( weps , armour, potions ... the lot ) . In short every mob in game would be fully geared  equiped and lootable , with all that gear bieng pvp viable . Things id class as player loot should be farmed and carted back to the bank in wheel barrows after a fairly short play session .

 

Guild items for buildings , siege equipment etc should be in mob camps or dungeons that take a team to crack , but should still be very abundant .

 

 

I think the underlying key is to have full loot , have the loot be extremely abundant , but also it must be possible to loose everything ... even player and guild bank accounts .

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I think the resistance to no leveling is mainly because so many players are laboring under the impression that you can't have progression without leveling. I blame this on the brainwashing from a decade of uninspired mmos. Actually, leveling is the most meaningless form of progression there is. There are so many better ways to invest time into building and advancing a character.

 

And to those whe mentioned stuff about getting instant gold and gear or whatever, that's not even remotely what no leveling is about. That's called getting a finished character instantly. It's no wonder it wasn't popular because there was nothing else to do. You can't just take away the leveling element from a game and expect success, it has to be built from the ground up that way.

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I think the resistance to no leveling is mainly because so many players are laboring under the impression that you can't have progression without leveling. I blame this on the brainwashing from a decade of uninspired mmos. In actual fact, leveling is the most meaningless form of progression there is. There are so many better ways to invest time into building and advancing a character.

 

And to those whe mentioned stuff about getting instant gold and gear or whatever, that's not even remotely what no leveling is about. That's called getting a finished character instantly. It's no wonder it wasn't popular because there was nothing else to do. You can't just take away the leveling element from a game and expect success, it has to be built from the ground up that way.

oh very much so... I read a great article back when I was considering join with a studio and doing a sandbox pvp game about how mmos addict people and then fool them into microtransactions. Basically they said they train people like gerbals through the leveling process.


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