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ACE_JackalBark

FotW: Kingdoms and Vassals Pt. 1 - Official Discussion Thread

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Good stuff.  I enjoy the Fly on the Wall segments.  It's amazing how much time and effort go into little bits of the game that seem insignificant to us.  I may spend all of an hour (ok, it may take a bit more time than that to place two castles and so on, but if there's a "dump your castle here in generic form" option I will take that) total of my game time messing with parcels and buildings in my EK.  I'll set it up once and never touch it again.  And yet it will take you hundreds of man-hours to put it in place.

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I like this segment of FotW. 

Now, what happens if a Monarch goes afk forever? 

What happens if someone with a merchant is banned. Are all his assets on the server returned? If not, who owns them? The discussion about a 1 click Grab all your stuff option would be extremely helpful for inventory items. 

 

Edited by Spawl

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how will you deal with booting up worlds going forward? can anyone on an invite list boot up an offline world if no one is in it - or only owner/admins etc?

have you thought about 'griefing'

e.g. timers between turning on and off of PvP

e.g. kicking someone [or turning say your EK to private instead of public] as they are crafting/trading/spirit banking and losing their current work/inventory etc
[likely *some* of that one solved by vessel slots that walk world to world now at least?]

Edited by Tinnis

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how are local banks going to work in an EK - can we "make them" - e.g. craft and drop down local chest etc - and will be be similar capacties to what we are seeing in the test CW size wise etc? upper limit on number of chests in a EK etc?

Edited by Tinnis

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It sounds like we need permissions that go all the way back up the tree too. I'm ok with the Monarch moving my building, but I don't want him re-arranging all my furniture, or putting my merchant in the back alley while I'm logged off. 

Can there be a two way street here? You're the City Builder, I'm the Building Owner. I let you move my building, but if you want to move my stall to another socket on the building I want to be notified and have a window of time to log in and do that myself, or not and grant short term permission to the City Builder.

Edited by baerin

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I think John and co. would benefit from not being able to see the camera. I'm not saying you should go incognito, but something so that it feels less like it's taking place in front of an audience.

Still, a great video! This is the vision I pledged for.

Edited by baerin

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Passive skill training is already a good candidate for a mobile app, but the more I think about managing a kingdom the more I think we will need to be able to interact with this stuff while we're away from our computers. At the least something to manage permissions and get push notifications when stuff happens.

"HappyCastleBuilder97 has moved your Cottage."

"xXBigGrieferXx would like permission to remove your Citadel."

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There was a lot of stuff in there that has already been said a long while ago. But nevertheless a nice video. Thanks for making it.

Being able to move buildings without having to redeem them is a great thing.

One problem i see with this is that people may not be able to find their stuff again. Let's say a vassal places a villa on a citadel parcel and the king decides to move it at the other side of the mountain. How will the player be able to find his villa again? Even more problematic if people build walls together, which wall parts are owned by whom? Will the player have to run several miles and check every single wall part?

What i could imagine regarding this issue is people being able to blend out or highlight buildings of specific players (like a specific group of people or single people lower in the hierarchy or themselves). Items have ID's right? So is it possible that the map only shows buildings from specific owners? Maybe having a list with checkboxes in EK management, where you can toggle showing/not showing? I could also imagine to extend such a system. Like the monarch/noble being able to create name EK groups and set how is allowed to make the map show/blend out/highlight this group. Like making a group called Merchants, allowing every visitor to highlight the buildings of those people on the map.

My opinion about the simultaneous building. I think one of the most frustrating experience could probably be to try 10 minutes to place something ... and then getting an error, because someone else moved it in between. I would expect buildings not being able to be grabbed at all, as long as someone else is currently moving it. It probably won't happen very often, though. So how about an opportunity for the players to kind of flag (or block) a building temporarily, so others can see that it is not to be moved now? Something that can be turned on/off only when needed.


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Very good mechanics i hope those would get implemented!

Please consider making the Wall building more dynamic right now it is a pain to get the city wall arround the hill so they could make reasonable shapes without losing land.

I can provide screenshots if required

 

Edited by Azeron

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Since there seems to be an "undecided" from Todd on the flow of moving buildings, here's my preferred take on it as "monarch" of a guild EK

Monarch *Dave* starts moving a building.

Server checks the isMovable flag, based upon Dave's permissions. Dave is monarch of this world, and nobody else is moving it.

Client sends "movingThis" message to server for building, reason "Dave is moving this"

Server sets "movingThis" to "Dave"

Vassal *Fred* Attempts to move his building

Server checks isMovable for Fred, Fred has all the proper permissions, but the check also sees that movingThis != null

Server tells Fred's client "You can not currently move this. Reason: Dave is moving this."

The priority here would be that the first client to START moving a building basically prevents other move actions until the movement is finished or aborted. From there, the admin level determines if the user can force a cancellation. So, for example, if this were arrayed as above, we might have an issue where we'd need to check the admin tree.

Dave needs to move Fred's building to fit a new market hub.

Fred has a disagreement with Dave over taxes, so decides to troll Dave, starts movement to lock Dave out of moving it.

Because Dave is monarch, and thus higher priority in the Admin tree, Dave gets an option when told "Fred is moving this, you can't not move this" to cancel Dave's movement.

Fred's attempt to Troll the world's monarch has failed. He is dropped out of movement mode with a message "Your superior Dave Has cancelled your movement in order to move this structure."

Now Dave can move the structure, use his monarch powers to redeed it back to Fred and turn off his admin access, or do whatever.

For this to work, I am assuming that Admin level building movement takes place within movement mode, so that the "flow" of redeeding is within the movement mode. Essentially "G: Edit Building" going to movement mode and "redeed building to owner" being a button in there.

 

Another minor thing since you guys are reworking parts of building management:

I'd like it if the option to edit/redeed buildings was part of a dedicated "management mode" that placed the user in free cam rather than the way it is currently. It is really annoying to constantly get "G: Loot" on every single building in the EK or to have the placement range locked relative to where my character is standing. I'd rather have the same interactions as a normal user unless I placed myself in a dedicated mode for editing buildings so that I'm not highlighting and getting building edit UI for literally every building I walk by.

Edited by PopeUrban

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Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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/rant

Watching @jtoddcoleman talk about Vassalage is like watching 4 wives/gfs sitting in the kitchen talking about Football on game day.  They sort of have an idea on how it works but use improper terms and call Touchdowns baskets or goals.  You know, there was a complex system created in the medieval ages and there are plenty of books on the subject.  You can even read the Encyclopedia Britannica and get a good idea. 

If you are a History nerd, I would suggest picking up "The Medieval Soldier" by A.V.B. Norman and  "A Distant Mirror, The Calamitous 14th Century" by Barbara Tuchman.  Norman's book is all nuts and bolts about Feudalism and how it organically grew in England, France and Germany.  Feudalism is a two way street that benefits both parties for protection, food and military service.

lol ... ok

/rant off

But, please dont get me started on CF's armor.  Everytime I see some of it my mind goes ... I just need to step to the left and this guy will never be able to block this shot.  His armor would prevent a full range of motion and I would just kill him every time.


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