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State of Duelist


voltdragon
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To start I have been playing Crowfall Duelist solely since the beginning of this month so not very long I would assume compared to others. I do play routinely every day for several hours. And this so far is my feel on the Duelist and opinion so feel free to correct my logic.

I have been playing around with pistol duelist and toothpick duelist and found pistol clunky but more options and toothpick higher damage potential but too risky. 

Pistol Prairie dog:

Good range ultimately with enough training, Decent LMB damage. Somewhat Slow pip generation with LMB attack speed and 1 pip generation skill. Stealth initiator skill decent because bugged shooting through rocks, walls and buildings but dangerous if anyone has any kind of reflect dizzy/knocking you down. Good Crit if you can stay stationary which is hard with how active combat is. Ability to proc more dodges is great. Can assault safely on edges of combat.

Tooth Pick Prairie dog:

High damage potential, Quick spike damage. Bleed is so so as initial spike damage can bring a enemy health down quick topping out at 50% meaning sometimes impale bleed may not do much damage unless they heal and subpar heal so they dont fully heal. Very squishy and from my experience gets targeted quick and drops quick.

Skills. Pepperbox with stun is nice especially when you get distance bonuses, such a large cone. Same with go for broke hitting a very wide cone. Rapid fire on Pistol is very weak and left out of rotation unless you can expose. With active combat target changing you will not use. Often do not get a knockdown effect when attacking 1v1 on exposed target. The damage shield is decent blocking 1800 on a 5 pip reflecting 55% damage. Our buff skill is unreliable for pip generation buff. Though this is extremely strong out of dummy testing I got it to proc this buff 3 out of 30 times using 5 pips, more testing may be needed. The animation on this is fairly long at least 2 seconds.

I feel like design wise this is supposed to be a class to go in and dish out damage and escape but with the amount of CC, everyone with a dash style ability and the resealth mechanics it can be hard to achieve this with out squishy we are. Discipline wise I feel locked into agent prov for the ability to heal and for a useful stun. In order to start combat. And juggernaut in order to escape.

I am running Decent blue-green made advanced weapons and typical common advanced leather, 3-4 weeks of skill training somewhat heavy into crafting (possibly where this could change if this was combat). 30%+ into scoundrel and 30%+ into guinea pig race.

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Not really sure what your goal with this post was?

You basically gave your opinion on 2 ways you have played the duelist and said you feel like you are locked to agent prov + juggernaut. Which I can say that agent prov isn't necessary at all on rapier duelist and juggernaut is def not necessary on pistol.

So was there anything to discuss here?

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Agreements? Disagreements? comments? That was the purpose. Do other duelist feel the same? Is there a better way to play it? I mainly want to know from other duelist and did not want to write a whole wall of text which discourages most readers. So you did point out pistol not needing jugg. I often get chain pulled or rushed when playing pistol and unable to escape from say a knight without jugg.

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i think it is the case with many of the "class limtied" discs is they do come across as auto pick most of the time, e.g. agent, healer discs, champ discs etc and jugg for certain melees etc too

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Well yeah currently there isn't a huge variety on discs.

However, juggernaut definitely isn't required on the pistol duelist. As you can and should kite your opponents and in case of trouble hide in stealth and re enter the fight. That said, Knight is probably the biggest counter to the entire duelist class. No matter what type of duelist you play, the knight has you covered with his tool set. Double pistol duelist indeed has way more issues with knights than the rapier one, but both should avoid fighting properly geared knights. This issue doesn't disappear even if you run juggernaut.

One thing that makes the pistol duelist difficult for many classes is the mobility added with the high dps and constant stuns. Dodges on the duelist are fast and you can get the passive that gives you additional dodges on crits. Catching a pistol duelist is next to impossible for most classes.

Agent provocateur is strong on the duelist mainly due to the ultimate mechanic which places you instantly in stealth and gives you immunity. This lets a duelist burrow away from harm and start healing and then re-enter the fight.

Pistol duelist basically spams pepperbox like crazy as it is your highest dps skill and can easily stun several opponents with 1 shot. Rapier duelist on the other hand needs to go close to impale which is definitely one of the highest dmg melee skills in game.

Imo currently duelist is definitely a viable pick no matter which style you play. But pistol being a lot more "solo and small scale friendly" where as the rapier can be played as a frontal melee with the right discs in a group.

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I appreciate the input. I really like the class and the setup and want to fine tune my setup and get other peoples out look. I believe agent will still stay in my kit and will review other majors over jugg. Typical minor I have been running is demons pact, leather uniform i believe it is for the AP but the third one seems to rotate trying to find a good fit. Punch drunk seems somewhat lack luster as our skills being pip based having them drop off cool down quicker really only helps with our bubble. Glass cannon was.... interesting to run. possible careless whisper.

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I feel like the Duelist is one of the best classes they designed, it has a clear purpose and limitations and things it excels at. This in turn makes it one of the worst classes to play in the current meta because almost every other class has more of everything.

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23 hours ago, Nervontuxis said:

Imo currently duelist is definitely a viable pick no matter which style you play. But pistol being a lot more "solo and small scale friendly" where as the rapier can be played as a frontal melee with the right discs in a group.

You definitely cannot frontline at all on duelist atm with rapier. Damage inflation has really fked duelist where you have no mobility abilities. If you try to frontline with brawlers like champ, knight, myrm you will get blown up very quickly and you don't really have time to ramp up to your full damage. 

 

On 3/1/2018 at 11:37 AM, voltdragon said:

I feel like design wise this is supposed to be a class to go in and dish out damage and escape but with the amount of CC, everyone with a dash style ability and the resealth mechanics it can be hard to achieve this with out squishy we are. Discipline wise I feel locked into agent prov for the ability to heal and for a useful stun. In order to start combat. And juggernaut in order to escape.

 

Agent Provocateur is a very good solo roaming disc, however in groups I personally never take it. Duelist has probably the biggest selection when it comes to discs. You can take A LOT of different disciplines and make some very interesting builds. Juggernaut is also not necessary almost ever.

If you are running rapier, punch drunk is a MUST take. Getting to reset the CD on your barrier increases your survivability by such a massive amount that there is no reason not to take it.

 

As a baseline, crit stacking is incredibly good on duelist. Play the fight slow and ramp into your full damage. Careless whisper, crit slice, inconcievable, etc, etc. The biggest issue I see with other duelists is not using inconceivable on their first pip rotation, not crit slicing, and spamming pepperbox too much. 

I'm not sure why you guys think there isn't many options on duelist. I've built and tested 8 different duelist builds that utilize different disciplines. Just get creative and don't fall into the "im a stealther so i need AP" trap 

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12 hours ago, Jjohnsin said:

You definitely cannot frontline at all on duelist atm with rapier. Damage inflation has really fked duelist where you have no mobility abilities. If you try to frontline with brawlers like champ, knight, myrm you will get blown up very quickly and you don't really have time to ramp up to your full damage. 

Have done it and will do it in the future. You don't sit and manfight a champion 1v1 and see who comes on top. But you can definitely be in the frontal fight with those big boys. Just need proper discs and like I said, only works in group play.

 

12 hours ago, Jjohnsin said:

If you are running rapier, punch drunk is a MUST take.

Its not a must take. Its definitely a good and viable pick, but not a must.

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5 hours ago, Nervontuxis said:

Have done it and will do it in the future. You don't sit and manfight a champion 1v1 and see who comes on top. But you can definitely be in the frontal fight with those big boys. Just need proper discs and like I said, only works in group play.

 

Its not a must take. Its definitely a good and viable pick, but not a must.

If you think standing on the frontline in large group fights is 1v1ing a champ idk what to say man...get in there with champs, knights, Templars, etc. You're gonna get blown up. So until i see a vid I gotta say I dont believe you.

For rapier it 100% is a must take actually or you're definitely gimping yourself

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1 hour ago, Jjohnsin said:

If you think standing on the frontline in large group fights is 1v1ing a champ idk what to say man...get in there with champs, knights, Templars, etc. You're gonna get blown up. So until i see a vid I gotta say I dont believe you.

For rapier it 100% is a must take actually or you're definitely gimping yourself

At this point I can't say anything else except learn to read.

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Mostly agree, I don't think there are any 'must takes' you can build a more in your face in and out brawler with rapier, yes punch drunk is good for that but not a must.   Or a mid range kiting double pistol.   Can kind of forgo stealth if you want, just use the ulti it as an o-poorly made socks button I think that's what most people do.    I personally would love to see another ulti choice that is damage related. 

Double pistol, LMB is sooooooooo slow the animation everything about it.  I get making it fast as rapier with current damage would be an issue, but damn its clunky I've grown so used to super fast combat and animation canceling.  Less damage with faster animation would be much more fun and give more pips, I think with the state of the damage even tanks are putting out that's not much to ask.

 

Duelist is in a decent spot, the only huge issue I see is training duelist locks you into your choice where all others have a backup class you can play.  Champ +Templar, Assasin + Ranger etc...   Same with race, Duelist is locked in as only hamster so you are limiting yourself even more, sure you can be a hamster cleric or knight but those are hardly ideal choices hamster adds little too them.    I don't understand why Hamster cant be an assassin or ranger.

Third, training one handed range weapon if you go pistols also locks you down as the only other 1 handed ranged weapon is clerics hammer.   Where Bow is a very good choice for multiple classes so worth training.

Complaint is focusing on duelist is punished very heavy with the number of choices you have, even more so if you are a pistol duelist.

Edited by Xomox
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4 hours ago, Xomox said:

the only huge issue I see is training duelist locks you into your choice where all others have a backup class you can play. 

This definitely, but most likely it will change in the future?

Kinda same as currently going underfoot in racial. Since we dont have stoneborn, you are locked into hamsters.

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  • 1 month later...

Yeah, I heard We are going to get the Bard class on the same branch as the duelist.

Current bard discipline will be renamed Troubadour, and a full bard class will appear for us.

I don't have an official quote on this.

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10 hours ago, Gaulwa said:

Yeah, I heard We are going to get the Bard class on the same branch as the duelist.

Current bard discipline will be renamed Troubadour, and a full bard class will appear for us.

I don't have an official quote on this.

I think someone shared a video of JTC saying they were reserving the name Minstrel for the current Bard discipline to allow it to be exchanged for the, yet TBA, Bard class.

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10 hours ago, Gaulwa said:

Yeah, I heard We are going to get the Bard class on the same branch as the duelist.

Current bard discipline will be renamed Troubadour, and a full bard class will appear for us.

I don't have an official quote on this.

I haven't ever heard this. 

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