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Aeekto

Reason to play with passive Skillsystem?!

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Since the passive Skilling got introduced i only played some hours the first days to realize i couldn´t do much at all without skilling to a specific point in the skilltrees.

After 1-2 Weeks logging in daily for 2 minutes just to spent the overtime i collected, i tried to play again and just realized i have to even spent more time doing this daily login stuff without even playing once.

In total i now logged in daily for severall weeks just to spent the overtime and i never actually played the game during that time since i don´t see a single reason to do it because i wouldn´t make any progress at all.

The only way to make progress is to not play the game?! We don´t even have  a faster timer while you´re playing or faster skillgain on things you do, like woodcutting to make progress in woodcutting, crafting bows to make progress in woodworking.

 

I know where they´re comming from with their idea, but it will seperate the old players from newer ones even more... the later they join the worse they´re behind without a single chance to compensate it like grinding a little more on a specific task or making money with materials to buy their equip (they can´t since they need to skill it first to even get the stuff the crafters realy need).

Passive skillgaining works in EVE:Online, but i don´t think it´ll work here. And i don´t accept the comment from some diehard fans like "it´s a niche game"... well, if you you want to keep playing your niche game, you need atleast a reasonable amount of audience to keep the servers running and devs getting their dishes on their table so they can keep developing instead of getting severall other jobs (they need to make money... gameproduction isn´t cheap nor free).

This game needs a mixup of passive and active skillgaining to please everyone. With the current system (and even a slower timer) i see no point to play this game for atleast a month where you level up some skills for atleast one single task.

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Why do people play Overwatch or Starcraft? I mean, you can play and play and play, and your stats never get higher, you never have a better DPS and you don't advance at all! The only thing you get after hundreds of hours of playing is a vanity skin that does nothing to help with your gameplay!! What a stupid system!!!! /s

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I mean if you want active stuff to do in the game you can still level your vessel, make your intermediate gear, farm lower level resource nodes, look for fights (though the difference between advanced and intermediate is a little much imo at the moment), look for a group to play with that may have higher skill training that you can join with, farm chests for advanced mats, etc, etc. 

There is definitely plenty to do while you are progressing through the basic trees. It seems you just didnt want to login and participate in the above suggestions. Just because you dont see a reason to login doesn't mean there is no reason to login.

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11 hours ago, Aeekto said:

After 1-2 Weeks logging in daily for 2 minutes just to spent the overtime i collected, i tried to play again and just realized i have to even spent more time doing this daily login stuff without even playing once.

In total i now logged in daily for severall weeks just to spent the overtime and i never actually played the game during that time since i don´t see a single reason to do it because i wouldn´t make any progress at all.

What were you trying to train and do?

What did you have trained after a few weeks? Training is sped up right now so if you stuck to one path, you should have something trained a decent amount.

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21 hours ago, Aeekto said:

1.  In total i now logged in daily for severall weeks just to spent the overtime and i never actually played the game during that time since i don´t see a single reason to do it because i wouldn´t make any progress at all.

The only way to make progress is to not play the game?! We don´t even have  a faster timer while you´re playing or faster skillgain on things you do, like woodcutting to make progress in woodcutting, crafting bows to make progress in woodworking.

2. I know where they´re comming from with their idea, but it will seperate the old players from newer ones even more... the later they join the worse they´re behind without a single chance to compensate it like grinding a little more on a specific task or making money with materials to buy their equip (they can´t since they need to skill it first to even get the stuff the crafters realy need).

3. This game needs a mixup of passive and active skillgaining to please everyone. With the current system (and even a slower timer) i see no point to play this game for atleast a month where you level up some skills for atleast one single task.

1. You’ve made the personal choice that until you are trained up X amount that you are not going to log in and play.  That’s not the skill systems fault.  That’s you making a choice.  The whole point of the system is so that you do NOT have to log in and “grind”.  You log in, and you play the game.  You harvest materials, you craft gear, you check the POIs, you siege Forts/Keeps.  I mean, you want something to do to grind to improve your vessel?  Grind out the XP levels until you get to 30.  Kill boars, make and sacrifice objects to the gods for XP.  There’s plenty to do, you’re just choosing not to do it.

 

2.  You may want to do a bit of research.  There’s been plenty of conversation regarding the implementation of a “Catch-up” mechanic in which “Old’ players can bank training time to sell (or provide to guildmates) which allows new players to use them for catching up on training.  So yes, you can grind, collect money or materials, for which to use to trade for Skill Tomes to help you catch up on training.

 

3.  I guess you haven’t really paid attention to their vision.  There is absolutely no intention of attempting “to please everyone”.  Sorry to be so blunt about it, but it’s the truth.  ACE is not making decisions based on attempting to please the masses.  They are making their game.

 

Ultimately, you’re simply choosing not to play until some point in your Skill Training, and that’s fine.  That’s your choice.  Personally, I’ve been playing through the entirety of mine.  Yes, as I get deeper into the trees more options open up for me, things become more efficient, more effective, etc.  

Edited by Diz

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Chapter Leader

 

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21 hours ago, Jjohnsin said:

I mean if you want active stuff to do in the game you can still level your vessel, make your intermediate gear, farm lower level resource nodes, look for fights (though the difference between advanced and intermediate is a little much imo at the moment), look for a group to play with that may have higher skill training that you can join with, farm chests for advanced mats, etc, etc. 

There is definitely plenty to do while you are progressing through the basic trees. It seems you just didnt want to login and participate in the above suggestions. Just because you dont see a reason to login doesn't mean there is no reason to login.

WINNER! This is not, nor ever was, intended or designed to be a solo experience. Even in "testing", it revolves largely around the group dynamic. When the game goes live, you will not be able to "flourish" solo. go here:

Guild Recruiting


.

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3 hours ago, Diz said:

 You harvest materials, you craft gear, you check the POIs, you siege Forts/Keeps.  I mean, you want something to do to grind to improve your vessel?  Grind out the XP levels until you get to 30.  Kill boars, make and sacrifice objects to the gods for XP.  There’s plenty to do, you’re just choosing not to do it.

Harvest basic materials for what? No use for them. Crafting is only at mid- to high tiers interesting when there are different stats involved (finally a reason to collect some stuff to make severall tries).

To get to this point you not only need to passive level your crafting skills, but you gathering skills too or you wont ever get a single drop to even start experimenting with crafting.

 

Which POIs? know every corner of the map.

 

No need to grind for Vessel levelup... got to 30 within a day.

13 hours ago, APE said:

What were you trying to train and do?

What did you have trained after a few weeks? Training is sped up right now so if you stuck to one path, you should have something trained a decent amount.

I´m stuck nowhere, got 100% on two entire trees for classes, 100% on 2 different weapons, exploration and 2 subtrees 100%, same for crafting.

 

The point of this thread is not being bad oder too stupid to figure things.... the point is, that i just did nothing and still benefit from it, but on the other hand people that join severall month later will never have a chance to catch up. How should they make money at all, they don´t even get much dust (that all the crafters need), they have to skill to more advanced stuff in exploration and into runemaking since they don´t have money to buy some good gathering tools yet. They can only gather a tiny amount of basic materials, that no one needs at all or veterans can gather within a short amount of time with a lot of other stuff they drop too.

The entire system is flawed and needs a lot of adjustments and some alternatives to gain skillpoints for new players.... just take off your rose-coloured glasses.

 

@the guy who said the devs only want to develop "their" game.... sorry to disappoint you, but the main reason to develop a game is to make money in the end and if you only cater to 100 players total instead of severall thousands, then it wont work and the game has to be shutdown realy fast (happened a lot in the past 2 years where it started the exact same way... and allways some diehard fans defended them and their vision, that usually got influenced by that minority into the wrong direction)

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I get your point, but dont waste time even bringing things like this up here.    The old testers can go full retard when it comes to any feedback that is not glowing support for everything.

What they should be saying is.  Don't look at it like a pvp game atm, just learn the crafting and gathering systems, discs and class builds.   If crafting is not your thing study the discs test rotations, comeback in 8 months when its closer to release.      This is not a replacement for your current MMO or game right now.   This is seriously alpha testing, if you seen how much they added the past 10 months to where they are now you would have more faith in what the game will be in another 8 months.   I'm looking at it like information gathering/research I wont be playing the full ramp up to release but I will swing by time to time see whats changed.

The game is missing alot of systems atm.   Merchants is a large one, also the campaigns are pulling gear and mats from the spirit banks of people that have been testing for months they have a huge edge and it kills the trading market because all these old players are way past starting mats new players gather.   They have piles of blue quality mats in spirit banks so never interact with anyone other then fellow long time testers. 

Release there will be campaigns that everyone starts fresh with mats.   That would not work implementing right now as people want to test crafting find bugs etc... again its not really a game yet. 

Last thing to point out is the 10x training speed, it makes the time gap issue amplified as folks are already maxed out after a few months.   Wont happen at release will take a year + and I'm sure Crowfall will have a system to catch up for new players. a 1 or 2 after release.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Aeekto said:

 

@the guy who said the devs only want to develop "their" game.... sorry to disappoint you, but the main reason to develop a game is to make money in the end and if you only cater to 100 players total instead of severall thousands, then it wont work and the game has to be shutdown realy fast (happened a lot in the past 2 years where it started the exact same way... and allways some diehard fans defended them and their vision, that usually got influenced by that minority into the wrong direction)

Yep the last 'recent' PvP oriented game went this way and is now limping into obscurity less than 8 months after release :(


uGlR0Ph.png

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Take someone who only logs into the lobby to passive skill gain. vrs someone who logs in and plays every day. 

I know which one I would pick. 

The first dude mister I am trained will be lost in the first few seconds. He doesn't know anything about the game. The classes, how to get from point a to b.

What to do. How to do it. 

Skills are more than the passive pips on the training system.

The best trained Blacksmith in the game who is a paper tiger in the training tree is going to suck compared to a player who has met and knows people. Who knows the combos. Who knows what is good and bad for a customer. Who knows how many of each thing is needed to streamline the mats and subcombines. 

The Gatherer who knows his fellow diggers, and has played with and trained the timing on the motherloads is going to get more out of a three hour tour than any passive paper tiger. Not to mention they will know who to go to for picks. Who to avoid when the wolves are roaming. 

The passive tree is there so you do not have to grind to keep up.  But some folks will always be behind people who actually play the game vrs the people who think they are trained. 

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1 hour ago, Aeekto said:

Harvest basic materials for what? No use for them. Crafting is only at mid- to high tiers interesting when there are different stats involved (finally a reason to collect some stuff to make severall tries).

To get to this point you not only need to passive level your crafting skills, but you gathering skills too or you wont ever get a single drop to even start experimenting with crafting.

Did I say harvest basic mats? No I didn't. You can still farm low-level resource nodes without training granted you equip the harvesting disciplines and make yourself a semi-decent harvesting tool. Not to mention you can just start stockpiling resources regardless of whether or not you can fully utilize them or not. You actually can get plenty of drops without harvesting trained, that's part of the reason why we have harvesting discs.

 

1 hour ago, Aeekto said:

No need to grind for Vessel levelup... got to 30 within a day.

You just said in your OP that you didn't actually play the game once so...ok. Find this hard to believe either way.

 

1 hour ago, Aeekto said:

The point of this thread is not being bad oder too stupid to figure things.... the point is, that i just did nothing and still benefit from it, but on the other hand people that join severall month later will never have a chance to catch up. How should they make money at all, they don´t even get much dust (that all the crafters need), they have to skill to more advanced stuff in exploration and into runemaking since they don´t have money to buy some good gathering tools yet. They can only gather a tiny amount of basic materials, that no one needs at all or veterans can gather within a short amount of time with a lot of other stuff they drop too.

Yes, you gained experience while not doing anything. But while you were not doing anything in game, other people were harvesting and crafting and fighting and stockpiling which means you still come out behind. Which means you *could* have been doing something to actively progress and deliberately chose not to. Not to mention there will be skill tomes for newer players to "catch up", though obviously they won't be 100% even with someone who has been playing since release. But cmon, do you really realistically expect any MMO to have that. Again, newer players can still harvest low rank resource nodes if they wish, which are not useless (not to mention come the real game most people will be running in whites and greens due to durability decay meaning even lower level resources are valuable to veterans).

 

Idk man, it seems like you actively decided not to participate in any of the active progression you say the game needs. Plus it seems you don't have a good grasp on all the systems that either are or will be in place regarding harvesting and skill trees. 

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I see it as a choice in philosophy.

You can design a game to help you raise your character sheet.

Or you can design a way to raise your character sheet to help you play a game.

 

In the first case, the reward for playing the game is to max out your character sheet.

In the second case, the character sheet is about opening up new options when playing the game.  Character skills are just one of many tools to help you find your own path.

I'm ready to play a game where the actual playing is not about raising your character skills.  I've seen it once before in EVE and there were plenty of ways for me to have fun so I know it's possible to make it work.  I don't know if this game will succeed, but I applaud the team for going down a different path. 

I'm also looking forward to starting a game with a group of friends, and know that we'll all be able to participate in a meaningful way whether a team member plays every day, or just one evening a week.

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I think the larger complaint is what about all those players who decide to come to the game later on. As indicated they plan on having a skill-catchup system after launch. Its not necessary before launch, because... well... everyone will be able to be competitive right at the start without it. There is zero need for a catchup system pre-launch. 

As to "what should I do while training" complaint, you aren't playing that game yet. Most of those activities aren't in the pre-alpha test yet. This is NOT a game right now. It's a pre-alpha test. Systems are coming online in the next few months that will expand your options for things to do when you login. We don't have them in the game yet, for example;

  • Ways to win a campaign (aka win conditions, aka things to do to earn a reward when the campaign ends)
  • Ways to stop your opponents from winning a campaign (equally important and worthy of note, can include things like raiding caravans, etc.)
  • Thrall Capturing (need these to make major disciplines)
  • Resource Gathering (to fuel your guild/factions efforts in the game)
  • PvE stuff to level your vessels
  • Crafting (of course)
  • Caravans from POI's (not to be confused with gathering)
  • Scouting/Cartography (in Dregs, you'll want up-to-date maps with enemy positions/camps, etc.)
  • uh... you know... the whole point of this game... PvP.

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I exactly know the feel. This is one to one what i was Feeling when first playing the game and the answers you get are exactly the ones that i got.

 

And i don't feel like they are helpful at all.

 

The Problem is, that you are not meant to be selfsufficent. To understand what that really means is a huge step from any other mmorpg. Especially the fact that that you pretty much can't fight anything till a certain skill Level is very hard to understand. As someone already said there is no other way into this game right now but over a guild or waiting the mastery to Level up passively until you are selfsufficent.

 

The Point is, you don't even Need to bother with gathering since the difference between gathering without mastery and with mastery is so huge that it isn't even worth the time.

 

As a tip: You Need to first master crafting and gathering. Don't bother with anything fight related. In this early stage i reccommend trying to become as selfsufficent as early as possible. i deinstalled the game and came back to my time bank filled with 10 days which really helped me a lot. Now i have to wait till i finally can draft my own upgraded harvesting Tools which are, as far as i can see, the entry ticket to anything in this game (which Need like two weeks of waiting, or more, not sure) This is absolutely weird and i just can't see how this is making any sense. But hey, this game is not meant to be your everyday mmorpg. (at least it feels like, they promote interaction to a Point, where without interaction there is no way for you to experience the game anyhow). And i have not found any good Video showing you what you Need to master to get started.

 

I don't understand how so many People just wave this concern away. If this is repelling already in Alpha stage, this will only get worse when published since there will be a lot more People trying this game out in a casual manner. I personally think, that the bar you Need to cross for advanced gear should be somewhere at 1 day or so. (combined playing time) Not 2 or 3 weeks. This is just far too much for any new Player experience. Advanced gear is not even Close to being sufficent but at least it is making you able to do pve. (solo Monsters. normal gear does not enable you to that)

 

Not everyone wants to first go through a whole find a guild process to START a game. it is fine to lock most of the high end stuff behind guilds but i think it is a really horrible design choice to even lock the start things behind such a high effort. Otherwise the game could be a lot easier to dive in.

 

Tl;DR: Right now you should not bother playing for more than an hour a day until you have at least the ability to make advanced gathering Tools. Or look for a guild.

The gameplay on itself Looks pretty decent. And after you are able to walk around selfsufficent the game is pretty fun. But up until that it is pretty much waiting.

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I'm new to the game. I would have started 5 months ago when i got the game... But discord told me not to even bother logging in because the game wasn't fun or playable or something like that... I just came back to see if thats changed. I logged in, gathered and crafted everything I could.. Then while chopping a level 1 tree I got shot in the back by someone doing 20x more damage than I could to them... So from a new players point of view, you know what? This game sucks. Your suggestion to "just play and learn..." Very self defeating when there really is no point in playing without skills, of which this bastard will always be stronger than me because I started later than him. When do I get to have fun? When do I actually get to play for fun? The reason people play overwatch and things like it, even though they dont earn anything, is because its competitive, its fun, its balanced.... Where is the balance in making older players gods where you literally have to wait extreme amounts of time to actually have fun? I can see the future of this game... And with the skill system it has now, it will be about as popular as Salem was by seatribe. I got this game for everything else... I guess I must have not seen the whole "passive skill" system mention somewhere back when I bought it. The idea is solid, but the waiting game is crap. They could cater to both, allow u to skill up in game OR passive train, good for both sides right? Those who prefer not to play at all... Or those who have plenty of free time on there hands, you know, encouragement to actually be active and play when your new? VS being forced to wait to be able to actually not die when moving around...

*You will still suck because....* Thats what guides are for, and tutorials, and videos... There are 3 types of people. 1. You look up everything, practice everything, and then share your findings. 2. You follow someones build. 3. You don't read anything and 90% of the time you lose, because the top people are makers, or followers, and you for whatever reason never use walkthroughs or guides. So no, this skill system pretty much says "Hi, did you die? Stop playing for a month and skill! Try again later!" Of course not many people are die hard fanboys, and its a proven fact in the gaming industry that diehard fan boys cannot keep games afloat, it needs all the types of players. The fanboys, The sheep, and The whales. The diehards keep things hyped and are loud as hell, they usually are the top players and know all the secrets. The sheep pad the games population, they come and go but typically they are fodder for the other two to step on, but that doesn't matter too much. The whales keep the servers well fed, they throw money around so they can beat the diehards and crunch yummy sheep, they like to feel important. 

These are part of the triangle ecosystem of online gaming. If the diehard fanboys vanish, the whales won't feel like they need to spend money. Without the whales, the servers will dry up and turn off. WIthout the sheep, the diehards or whales (depending on the cash shop p2w model) will crush the otherside, causing that side to complain and eventually leave, resulting in one of the other two scenarios. Plus without the sheep, new sheep, whales, or diehards, are less likely to join. 

I know you say the niche system is "not for everyone." How long are you hoping this game to last then? Right now its geared solely to scare sheep away. The population also, only goes down.. Infact statistically speaking, the population of a new mmo drops within the first 2 months... by 77%, and from there that number is influenced by many things... But if it hits a certain population, its all downhill from there, because new players like to see other players, and hate being alone in the first moments. Alot of sheep players quit and never look back based on the first 15-30 minutes of gameplay.. So if their experience is bland, or bad, they just quit and refund. My experience was run around, gather, craft, learn that I can't even damage things above level 7, and that at my best I could be completely turned to ash and that advancing in this game is done entirely passive... Meaning I will never truly enjoy this game unless I wait a very long amount of time... (For those who can't quite get this through their head, login to rust and handicap yourself to only being able to make cloth armor and a basic gathering tool. Do this for 5 hours straight. Was it fun dying 100+ times and getting nowhere? Would you do that again, every single day, 5+ hours a day, allowing yourself to build 1 additional thing per day? No? Then what reason does a new person have to even bother playing this game for the first few months? And why do you think that is an acceptable mechanic in a game?) 

This game has amazing promise... With one very bad system ruining the fun, and the population, which in turn will kill the game. I wish I could play the full game and tell you how much fun it was, but with the skills I have...it was more of a limited demo, in which I rate it 1/5, would not recommend to anyone interested in having fun immediately.

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2 hours ago, sefer said:

I'm new to the game. I would have started 5 months ago when i got the game... But discord told me not to even bother logging in because the game wasn't fun or playable or something like that...

I think the part you missed is that the game doesn't exist yet. What you logged into is a test module. The only things that exist right now are test modules - the framework for the game.

Your complaint boils down to "there is no tutorial." That is correct. There is no tutorial, YET, because tutorials are one of the last things that get made before a game launches, and we aren't there yet.

As for complaints about how it's impossible to catch up to people who have been playing longer than you, this is entirely inaccurate but also a very widely discussed subject in threads dedicated to discussing it, so if you're curious how those mechanics will work I highly recommend checking those out. Or just waiting until the game actually launches and figuring it out then.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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3 hours ago, sefer said:

This game has amazing promise... With one very bad system ruining the fun, and the population, which in turn will kill the game. I wish I could play the full game and tell you how much fun it was, but with the skills I have...it was more of a limited demo, in which I rate it 1/5, would not recommend to anyone interested in having fun immediately.

That person who killed you wasn't stronger simply because he had higher skill levels. He also had better gear, I'm sure. Advanced gear vs. basic gear makes a big difference.

There are a couple other things you need to understand as well. First, the game is still in pre-alpha. Things aren't balanced. The new player experience is far from complete. In short, it isn't a game yet. It's a test. If you are looking to play a game and have fun and you aren't interested in testing, now is probably not the time to play, because there will be bugs, there will be imbalances and there will be missing content. You can't expect an unfinished game to play like a finished game. 

Second, this is a group PvP game. You can play solo, but you need to understand the risks and limitations involved in doing that. There is safety in numbers. You are going to need to work with other people to some extent because you won't be able to do everything yourself. You aren't going to take a fort or a keep by yourself. You aren't going to solo the spider queen to get the discipline she drops. You won't be able to harvest mother lodes by yourself. You can go out into the world solo and harvest other stuff, but there will be enemies out hunting for you who want to kill you and take your stuff. The entire point of the game is conquest and fighting over resources. You aren't going to win the war by yourself and your faction isn't going to win the war if everyone in it is playing solo. Cooperation and conflict. 

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On 3/16/2018 at 2:15 AM, Bezoedelaar said:

I exactly know the feel. This is one to one what i was Feeling when first playing the game and the answers you get are exactly the ones that i got.

 

And i don't feel like they are helpful at all.

 

The Problem is, that you are not meant to be selfsufficent. To understand what that really means is a huge step from any other mmorpg. Especially the fact that that you pretty much can't fight anything till a certain skill Level is very hard to understand. As someone already said there is no other way into this game right now but over a guild or waiting the mastery to Level up passively until you are selfsufficent.

 

The Point is, you don't even Need to bother with gathering since the difference between gathering without mastery and with mastery is so huge that it isn't even worth the time.

 

 

Bold one answer: The real point is that you will never be self sufficient, and it's the systems that are coming online now that will help fix that.  

That being players setting up stores, and providing a semi automatic way to interact with those that do have the skills to supplement what you need.  Right now that's a wholly social interaction you need to initiate with people through a rather clunky chat system.  With stores you will have more options.

Bold two answer:  You could fight if you had the gear, and to get the gear before you get skills, you need to talk to people.  

Bold three answer: That's actually what they are shooting for.  If your not the gathering type, you don't gather, you trade with other players that do gather. 

To grease the wheels for new players, it's quite possible that ACE will simply gift new accounts enough starting currency so that they can start off interacting with other players and shops, without begging empty handed.  I'm not sure what the solution will be, but they will certainly see the problem, it's been complained about enough for long enough that they must already see it.  So if the goal for the game is player interaction, then that's exactly how they will have to focus the early game experience, on motivating and facilitating player interaction early.

A bag full of cash to buy decent gear would do that.

 

On 2/2/2018 at 9:48 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

This is not surprising, given that we haven't built a new player experience yet.

new player experience is typically the LAST thing that you work on, because it's heavily scripted and (as a result) incredibly fragile.  whenever you make a change to any system, any balance table, any user interface -- even moving a button -- the damn thing breaks.  because it's so custom crafted.

Doing it early in the development process, when everything is in flux, means that you spend an inordinate of time fixing it every. single. time. you put up a new version.

Better to just put it off until things are settled (i.e. do it last.)  It does mean that many (most?) incoming players have no clue how systems work, but that's the lesser of the two evils. Development velocity is paramount.

Todd

 

On 2/2/2018 at 3:14 PM, KrakkenSmacken said:

I would love to quote this answer to the plethora of players that complain about the new player experience. 

Lord knows I've bitched enough about it, and it's importance, along the way.  I sometimes lose sight of the fact that there must be a time budget built in for systems needed to support that experience, and keep mentally trying to imagine how the current model can be adjusted to accommodate a more entertaining start.

So just how LAST is it?  Is it LAST right before Beta, or LAST right before initial launch?

 

On 2/5/2018 at 8:30 AM, jtoddcoleman said:

yes, you can quote it.

Last meaning "I will put it off as long as we can, to give the systems under it the maximum amount of time to solidify".  I wouldn't even be shocked if we put a draft version in at soft launch, then change it completely in the period between soft launch and hard launch (i.e. once we run enough players through it to get a statistical bead on how effective it is.)  

Todd

 

 

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25 minutes ago, KrakkenSmacken said:

Bold one answer: The real point is that you will never be self sufficient, and it's the systems that are coming online now that will help fix that.  

That being players setting up stores, and providing a semi automatic way to interact with those that do have the skills to supplement what you need.  Right now that's a wholly social interaction you need to initiate with people through a rather clunky chat system.  With stores you will have more options.

Bold two answer:  You could fight if you had the gear, and to get the gear before you get skills, you need to talk to people.  

Bold three answer: That's actually what they are shooting for.  If your not the gathering type, you don't gather, you trade with other players that do gather. 

To grease the wheels for new players, it's quite possible that ACE will simply gift new accounts enough starting currency so that they can start off interacting with other players and shops, without begging empty handed.  I'm not sure what the solution will be, but they will certainly see the problem, it's been complained about enough for long enough that they must already see it.  So if the goal for the game is player interaction, then that's exactly how they will have to focus the early game experience, on motivating and facilitating player interaction early.

A bag full of cash to buy decent gear would do that.

 

 

And where is that bag full of cash coming from? From killing Monsters? That can oneshot me all the way? But if you would downgrade them so i could hunt them with starter gear they would be oneshots for all the others (just like i am).

 

What you guys fail to see is, that this game Needs no "new Players experience" in form of a Story or an walk-in or anything. These things are super easy. The site of Crowfall has this how to start Thing that is completely sufficent to get started. I mean how to chop down a tree with an axe which i had to build first has took me 10 minutes at max. These 10 minutes were fun. Then i went on with all the other things and figured them all out eventually.

 

But right now there is no way into the economy. And there won't be. Proof me wrong if you can. Player driven economy means that everything will have its Price. And with what will a new Player pay? By selling the things he is crafting or harvesting? With the vendor that is probably costing Money. With the Money he got by the only Thing he is able to kill... Oh wait there is nothing. By using the high Level materials he can.... oh wait he can't because he Needs to wait a full month before he can harvest anything of interest.

 

Yeah ok it is pre-Alpha. But the whole System is not working.

 

There is just no entry Point for a single Player. 

And if they Keep up the philosophy they do there won't be any.

 

And for the gifting (overread that first): Yeah. Gifting things is the absolute right way to start. This is basically a band aid with dinosaurs on it saying: here my Little Boy. It will stop hurtin soon. This like saying: Yeah, we Keep the bad things but make them less hurt by giving you a present. Worst idea ever. Solve the Problem in its roots or don't even start.

Edited by Bezoedelaar

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12 minutes ago, Bezoedelaar said:

And where is that bag full of cash coming from? From killing Monsters? That can oneshot me all the way? But if you would downgrade them so i could hunt them with starter gear they would be oneshots for all the others (just like i am).

 

What you guys fail to see is, that this game Needs no "new Players experience" in form of a Story or an walk-in or anything. These things are super easy. The site of Crowfall has this how to start Thing that is completely sufficent to get started. I mean how to chop down a tree with an axe which i had to build first has took me 10 minutes at max. These 10 minutes were fun. Then i went on with all the other things and figured them all out eventually.

 

But right now there is no way into the economy. And there won't be. Proof me wrong if you can. Player driven economy means that everything will have its Price. And with what will a new Player pay? By selling the things he is crafting or harvesting? With the vendor that is probably costing Money. With the Money he got by the only Thing he is able to kill... Oh wait there is nothing. By using the high Level materials he can.... oh wait he can't because he Needs to wait a full month before he can harvest anything of interest.

 

Yeah ok it is pre-Alpha. But the whole System is not working.

 

There is just no entry Point for a single Player. 

And if they Keep up the philosophy they do there won't be any.

 

And for the gifting (overread that first): Yeah. Gifting things is the absolute right way to start. This is basically a band aid with dinosaurs on it saying: here my Little Boy. It will stop hurtin soon. This like saying: Yeah, we Keep the bad things but make them less hurt by giving you a present. Worst idea ever. Solve the Problem in its roots or don't even start.

No, the gifting would help get you through the first steps to being useful, and facilitate and encourage you to start to interact with, and rely on other people.

I don't disagree with you entirely by the way. Check my quote to Todd.  I have been bitching about the new player experience for months, but what it sounds like to me is that you want to be independent and self sufficient in multiple aspects of the game from day one. You also seem to be the type that doesn't want to do anything, until you can do it well.  Wait till level 100 to try to find a group, and grind like a bugger to get there ASAP, sort of person.  I know that mentality, because that is also partly my mentality.  

Buy a solo grind until your at the top of your game is not the game they are trying to build, so that's not going to happen. They will address the new player experience, when the time to address it is right.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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