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2 deaths with tow truck all JC break?


Anhrez
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its not worth the effort @thomasblair if I get 2 deaths and the items are gone. 

first Death and rez back at BeachHead

Ring 657 Durability to 307? 

Ring 620 to 270?

because I didn't want to fly back and get killed again by an over whelming force?

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

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The durability does seem a bit low on your jewelry, Ill look at tweaking the baselines up a bit higher.

HOWEVER

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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33 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

The durability does seem a bit low on your jewelry, Ill look at tweaking the baselines up a bit higher.

HOWEVER

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

it does not appear that the base stats on Jewelry has been changed for 5.5. We are seeing the same disappointing numbers from rings. 

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40 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

It also shouldn't be a "my corpse is camped, I flew back 15 minutes to try to rez and now I either have to take another 100 durability hit if I rez at that spot where I'm camped or fly back to the beachhead for another 15 minutes and still pay the 250 tow truck penalty. Time is a factor and often times it should be considered penalty enough. 

If I arrive at my corpse, find it camped, I should have the choice to rez locally or at the beach head for no additional cost. I already ran back.

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58 minutes ago, Gradishar said:

it does not appear that the base stats on Jewelry has been changed for 5.5. We are seeing the same disappointing numbers from rings. 

Can I get some SS please, want to compare to our end.

Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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1 hour ago, thomasblair said:

The durability does seem a bit low on your jewelry, Ill look at tweaking the baselines up a bit higher.

HOWEVER

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

I think everyone here is just fine with taking durability on death, or being penalized for getting around a rez mechanic, but more often than not tow trucking isn't about "being in the mood" its about "I have no other option, and will probably take less durability if I choose not to rez in to an unknown number of potential enemies.

@thomasblair The death run system currently in play is directly at odds with the pvp hotspot design of the game. Towtrucking is not a "last resort" in the MAJORITY of deaths. It's not a "convenience" feature. It is literally the superior tactical option in the vast majority of PvP related deaths. Death SHOULD be impactful, but the idea that most deaths will impart only 100 durability on players is just false. The game as currently designed encourages corpse camping without even trying to camp a corpse as a natural result of fighting over the things you guys designed the game around fighting over.

Corpse running is a bad system in a game designed around fighting over and then remaining at fixed objectives.

How about in stead of making us fly the crow from the fort to the corpse... make us fly the crow from the body to the fort and remove the towtruck mechanic altogether? As is you're asking people to make a habit of entering PvP areas already controlled by enemies that have already proven their ability to best them, do so blind, and then root and stun themselves for approximately three seconds to play a self res animation.

Barring that, how about giving people the option to fly to the crypt to retrieve another vessel so they can actually try to retake the position before making themselves a free kill for the people that just killed them and have had plenty of time to reinforce their position, res their own dead, and possibly enlist the help of NPC guards?

I honestly can not understand why you're attached to this system given the way the rest of the game is designed.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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@thomasblair

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The necklace cuts are pretty bad too. Briolette diamond is -.035 sprint efficiency, heart cut diamond is -.5 crafting speed, Trillion Diamond is .125 spot weakness..

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This one has a little experimentation but .281 crit hit damage is a joke for the effort spent in gathering and crafting.

 

Even with a fully trained crafter, the numbers are so small to begin with that even good rolls won't get them up that high. Note I was just running through these quickly this afternoon with a partially trained crafter but the numbers are not any different than they were in 5.4. The base for crit hit damage was .225, the base for healing modifier/damage modifier was .05, etc.

They just aren't worth it particularly with how the durability works with them right now.

 

Also, the huge durability hit on the tow truck when it is super easy to camp someone seems a bit silly. They've already lost, and basically you're putting someone in a situation where they've not only lost, but are either going to take a huge hit on their gear or they will just log. I'm going to guess the latter may happen more often than you are planning on. I'm not super keen on losing potential competition on that mechanic.

 

Edit: Here is my stream from earlier where I was testing the JC crafting

 

 

Edited by Phylor.the.Jester

C4sIZDW.gif

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1 hour ago, thomasblair said:

 

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

 

So I would agree with this except that with you only being able to respawn right on top of your grave, that leaves you incredibly open to just being camped. Easiest way to win a fight is to hit your enemy before they can get formed up. In this case, you can literally force the loser to take the huge durability hit because there is no way you will let them respawn if you have already wiped someone once.

It isn't a "not in the mood" kind of thing but you either bite the bullet on the tow truck or you log off until whatever objective you were fighting over is done or until the other party gets bored.

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The cut phase had virtually no change.
Grind had a small increase,
Polish had almost a doubling,
Final ring combine had a 4x change.

So the earlier in the process you compare to previous the smaller the change will be from 5.4.

Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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2 hours ago, thomasblair said:

The durability does seem a bit low on your jewelry, Ill look at tweaking the baselines up a bit higher.

HOWEVER

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit.

I do understand the behavior modification format of using the tow truck but I don't understand the hard numbers? 100 and 250 .... so a newer player with less good gear gets MORE of a penalty than a better player with better gear for the same death and choice? that to me is Skewed horribly. 

Normal wear and tear takes a point here or a point there as the Player plays .... the Better weapons last a lot longer from wear and tear but tow Truck and Death seem to me to be a universally impact-full event and a 'choice' .....  Currently better gear allows a player to dominate by stats and tow Truck more often? 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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20 minutes ago, thomasblair said:

The cut phase had virtually no change.
Grind had a small increase,
Polish had almost a doubling,
Final ring combine had a 4x change.

So the earlier in the process you compare to previous the smaller the change will be from 5.4.

For me:

I am seeing much more assembly failures (my training is still pretty low) add that to more failures in Polish and Final Ring. I am seeing Failures and Crit Failures when the difficulty of my Pip choice is 16.667 ? 

I had a chain of failures 1 pip at a time 5 failures in a row. The math on that ... I just can't even type here its too painful 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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13 hours ago, thomasblair said:

The durability does seem a bit low on your jewelry, Ill look at tweaking the baselines up a bit higher.

HOWEVER

Our current thinking is Tow Trucking is meant to be harsh. (Definitely something you don't want to do often) Hence the flat 250 cost across all items for it. (You take a flat -100 when you go unconscious, that's why your numbers are adding up to 350.) Tow Trucking shouldn't be a "I'm not in the mood to fly back", unless your mood dictates paying a 250 durability hit. (Times all the items you are currently using)

Highlighted that for you.

Do the harvesting time cost math/gear and ask a few questions.  

  • How long does it take a fully trained and geared harvester group (assuming groups are the most efficient) to acquire all the materials in raw count for a full set of gear?
  • How much will crafting failures eat of that gathered material and use that as a multiplier on time cost.
  • How many fights on average (50/50 win loss ratio) take to lose all that gear if your wearing all the slots possible?
  • Is that combat time worth the harvesting and crafting effort?

If you can't come to at least a 3-1 time spent fighting vs harvesting/crafting, it's simply not going to be worth it in a game that's supposed to revolve more around PvP than grind.  If my 3-1 time is wrong, please answer the question of how much time working for resources vs time spent in combat is what you would consider a good balance point, and then do the math on that.

Also consider, having to use the tow truck is already a loss.  You have lost the position on the field for whatever POI you were fighting for.  In terms of slippery slope/perpetual comeback,  the enemy has just secured access to resources that will put your side on a slippery slope already. The severe dura hit is just more slope to slide down.

EDIT:[Addition]  You may want to put some kind of tracking metric in place that can tell you the tow truck to death ratio, to see if your assumptions about how many times it is actually used are correct.  I suspect you will find there are far more occurrences of it that "not in the mood to fly" can possibly justify.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Running back when you lost is a large time sink.

The fact that you are running back to an easily spotted marker than can be camped is foolish at best.

The fact that when you get there you are going to be very vulnerable because you have a 10 meter range to res in and cant see very far otherwise means you are coming into a stationary spot blind.  Pretty much instant death. And another run back, or just tow truck.

You also have a delay before you can input anything and are solo.. 

Let folks self res at the cairn in a 100 meter radius. Much of the issues go away, hell I would say 250 would be better. 
Also I would have the option at the cairn to have F to res there or G to res back at the temple with the tow truck saving you the trip back if the area is too hot.

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6 minutes ago, srathor said:

 

Running back when you lost is a large time sink.

I think the time sink is a perfectly fine part of the design. Ideally, it takes you longer to self-res the further you are away from priendly res points, which reinforces the importance of owning friendly res points and advantages defenders of said res points.

This would remain intact if the run was from your corpse TO the res statue without this often false choice between running and towtrucking, and wouldn't allow resource-rich actors and people with alt accounts to effectively circumvent half of the penalty because there would be no towtrucking to avoid or exploit with wealth. Utility of deathblows and making sure you kill resurrectors remains intact. Importance of owning places to res remains intact. Harsher time out for dying further from your holdings remains intact. You can balance durability loss from there if 100 per death isn't enough without towtrucks.

LMAO my website is broken please click this to apply to Flames of Exile (maybe, if that's not busted too)

On 5/11/2015 at 1:48 PM, CAWCAWCAW said:

Rub rock on face and say "Yes food is eaten now time for fight"

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From 5.4 

jkmjswB.png

will craft the same as above in 5.5 in a bit if I can find a place to craft as my EK is still bugged ..... :huh:

 

UPDATE: 

I had the final combine to attempt and had the max Energy to over 7 then a 1 pip crit failure and 2 more 1 pip Failures in a row. Can someone double check that somewhere we are not carrying an increase chance of failure after a failure is received? 

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Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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I do understand the need for a Durability sink ... hell as crafter I am damn happy to see them. My concern is fun/effort ratio. If you look at how many times a player could die within the pushing and pulling of the game the death penalty makes sense at 100 or 8-10% of a very very nice weapon or armor. I feel like the current format means Uncle Bobs will have all the Tow Trucks they want while others struggle far too much.

The person/team died, lost their inventory, lost their objective. Based on the timing of their death and the length to get back to their bodies, and the respawn mechanic the wiped squadis are at a huge huge disadvantage to all rally and re-appear. Adding an extra 2.5 Death durability tax because someone does not want to rez in a futile situation (I know not all of them will be but we are planning for a game with large, long fights right?)  or what log out and wait? that does not seem very fun for the player

This great craft by BrightDance is out of how many Pips and how many attempts?  and it give you 4 Death/Tow Trucks and common use 

 

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But if we look at an Intermediate item, at 2 death/tow trucks its gone

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Take the 100 off the top and then maybe 150 for the Tow truck. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Anhrez

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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I think a good question is Ranged Distance Bonus ..... if  a Blue Gem gets me on average .271 distance bonus before the final combine. And a YOLO gets me 4X ... I get a 1.25 meters? 

but more than likely we see 2X so 2 rings adds me 1.35 meters? that does not seem impact-full enough to equip

 

Don't forget, the one EK that no one will judge you for looting your guilds treasury is Anhrez's Doober Shack. Where you can take those long con gains and 'simplify' them to more easily fit in your inventory. While you are unloading your hard earned winnings, swing by the Bazaar and pick up something to celebrate your genius.

LR0tCJt.png

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1 hour ago, Anhrez said:

Adding an extra 2.5 Death durability tax because someone does not want to rez in a futile situation (I know not all of them will be but we are planning for a game with large, long fights right?)  or what log out and wait? that does not seem very fun for the player

If the best strategy for play and conserve resources is to log out and not play the game and wait, (or worse quit), rather than try to get right back into the game and fight to gain back territory,  there is something fundamentally wrong with the outcome of the design.

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