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Equality In Gaming - Gamergate

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Regardless on how you measure the data women still do not have equality in the workplace whether its a pay gap or respect.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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So, when we compare men and women with the same educational degree, the same job, who were never married and never had children, you'll find that the pay gap disappears completely.

 

I'm guessing you only read until you found a line that agrees with your opinion.

 

Here's one example:

 

 

Number of women that were among the 2,500 best-paid executives at Standard & Poor’s 500 Index companies: 198

As a percent of the all 2,500 executives: 8%

Percentage by which these high-earning women – who earned an average of $5.3m – lagged their male peers, 
 18%

 

 

The issue is not just in same jobs, it's how limited womens' access is in certain fields, not by choice but because they're shut out of the boys' club.  The equality issue should also add another name: "equal opportunity."

 

If you look under similar circumstances, you'll see leadership positions are dominated by men still.  You'll see lawyers in the same firms with the same wage gap.  You'll see a number of factors that indicate disparity.  Am I arguing that it's 77 cents on the dollar across the board?  No.  Am I arguing that there is in fact pay inequality?  Definitely.


"Darken the moon and conceal the stars; our Light will never be extinguished." - The Tome of the First Flame

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The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home. Join us @ http://crowfall.shivtr.com

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Regardless on how you measure the data women still do not have equality in the workplace whether its a pay gap or respect.

I rebuke thee.

Edited by Conspiracy Theorist
Edited out personal attack.

Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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That's a really dumb perspective. First of all, it DID happen, there's tons of proof from what I linked. Secondly, it's not a ridiculous concern when it's affecting a business and other people.

 

So you're saying that "she" slept with someone who reviewed her game and gave it a positive review.

 

1. No, she didn't. Link doesn't prove it.

2. She might have slept with a reviewer. Reviewer didn't review her game.

3. Her game wasn't for sale. It was for free. Therefore, no affect on "business".

4. If this issue is in fact at the heard of Gamergate, then it's not just "overblown," it's entirely fatuous.

5. No one should care who a woman sleeps with, unless they're actually in a relationship with said woman.

6. If a woman cheats on you, you don't call her out in public and list all her partners. That's a punk move.

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The issue is not just in same jobs, it's how limited womens' access is in certain fields, not by choice but because they're shut out of the boys' club.  The equality issue should also add another name: "equal opportunity."

 

If you look under similar circumstances, you'll see leadership positions are dominated by men still.  You'll see lawyers in the same firms with the same wage gap.  You'll see a number of factors that indicate disparity.  Am I arguing that it's 77 cents on the dollar across the board?  No.  Am I arguing that there is in fact pay inequality?  Definitely.

 

I can tell you you're definitely wrong regarding women lawyers. I am related to a woman who is a partner at a top tier law firm in the U.S., and she herself says there is no pay gap, at least not for her or any of the other women she knows who are lawyers.

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The "pay gap" is a myth.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/02/24/childless-women-in-their-twenties-out-earn-men-so/

 

If you insist that the gender wage gap is a result of discrimination against women, here are a few other claims that must be equally true. By the same logic, young men are discriminated against in favor of young women. Women in their 20s without children out-earn men by as much as $1.08 to every dollar, according to some estimates. It must also be true that white men are discriminated against in favor of Asian-American men, who earn over 5 percent more than white men.

 

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I'm guessing you only read until you found a line that agrees with your opinion.

 

Here's one example:

 

 

 

The issue is not just in same jobs, it's how limited womens' access is in certain fields, not by choice but because they're shut out of the boys' club.  The equality issue should also add another name: "equal opportunity."

 

If you look under similar circumstances, you'll see leadership positions are dominated by men still.  You'll see lawyers in the same firms with the same wage gap.  You'll see a number of factors that indicate disparity.  Am I arguing that it's 77 cents on the dollar across the board?  No.  Am I arguing that there is in fact pay inequality?  Definitely.

 

That statistic doesn't seem useful at all, to be honest.  The salary of executives at top companies varies wildly, regardless of gender.  How do they normalize something like that?

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I am not going to play the game of finding an article that devalidates your claim so you can find another article the invalidates mine. The fact that equal rights or equal pay for a group of people is such a hot button and debatable issue is pretty sad IMO.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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So you're saying that "she" slept with someone who reviewed her game and gave it a positive review.

 

1. No, she didn't. Link doesn't prove it.

2. She might have slept with a reviewer. Reviewer didn't review her game.

3. Her game wasn't for sale. It was for free. Therefore, no affect on "business".

4. If this issue is in fact at the heard of Gamergate, then it's not just "overblown," it's entirely fatuous.

5. No one should care who a woman sleeps with, unless they're actually in a relationship with said woman.

6. If a woman cheats on you, you don't call her out in public and list all her partners. That's a punk move.

 

When a woman has sex for reasons that affects other people besides herself and the one she has sex with, then yes, it should be called out. 

 

And do NOT act like she had no gain from this. There was money gain from ad-revenue, (which btw you get a TON of money from), there's exposure to her as a game developer. If she gets good reviews, she gets more exposure. Simple as that.

 

Here's a good link that summarizes what I'm trying to say: http://talkingship.com/wp/2014/08/19/zoe-quinn-sexual-affairs-ethics/

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3. Her game wasn't for sale. It was for free. Therefore, no affect on "business".

 

Your argument is founded on false principles. Just because the game wasn't being sold for a profit doesn't mean it wasn't having an affect on her business.  

 

Companies spend billions in advertising. Releasing a free game to build a reputation and customer base is not at all unusual, I'm shocked that you are acting like this is something of zero value.

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this is such a silly thread

1: yes women do earn less on avg then men. For a whole pile of reasons..that cannot simply be written off as simple sexism.

2: quoting talking point numbers from either political party is a recipe for stupidity the dem 77% is just as concocted as any rep #

simply put talking points are about persuading the uninformed...they sound real but most of the time they are misleading.

Polls are worse. I give no credibility to polls. They are more meant to create opinion then to measure it.

 

 

From that article:

This is significant because it directly refutes the "equal work" part of "equal pay for equal work."

I also disagree with the assertion that "Republicans" claim that. First off, I am a Democrat. Secondly, that is a fact, not a claim. Let's not start defining our own kind of math when we hate it when some define their own kinds of science with regards to climate change, vaccinations, etc.

I disagree there is the scientific method...and there are only

laws

theories

hypothesis

educated guesses

and just smooth f'ing wrong

bullsh-t

Lies

 

in that order too  :lol:

 

climate change is a hypothesis scientifically...politically its literally a law...or laws...mostly payoffs to political buddies.

the anti-vaccinations movement has been relegated to smooth wrong


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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That article stated simply more factors are present than simply gender so that it's not as bad as it appears.  It does not address the variety of other issues, or does it provide what statistics it references.

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Companies spend billions in advertising. Releasing a free game to build a reputation and customer base is not at all unusual, I'm shocked that you are acting like this is something of zero value.

 

Depression Quest didn't have ads on it. And if you're trying to suggest a Patreon account is what the ultimate goal of promotion was, I'm currently looking at the screen funny. There was not "billions" at stake, here.

 

When a woman has sex for reasons that affects other people besides herself and the one she has sex with, then yes, it should be called out.

 

That assumes her reasons are actually stated and not assumed by someone else. Would you do the same for a man? I don't think you would.

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Depression Quest didn't have ads on it. And if you're trying to suggest a Patreon account is what the ultimate goal of promotion was, I'm currently looking at the screen funny. There was not "billions" at stake, here.

 

 

That assumes her reasons are actually stated and not assumed by someone else. Would you do the same for a man? I don't think you would.

 

She gets exposure and ad revenue from any site that uses/advertises for her game. What do you not understand about this? And yes, I would call a man out if he did this. Men HAVE been called out for doing this.

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She gets exposure and ad revenue from any site that uses/advertises for her game. What do you not understand about this? And yes, I would call a man out if he did this. Men HAVE been called out for doing this.

 

Name one. I'm sorry, but I'm just incredulous that anyone would seriously care about this as much as you purport to. In my experience, this is without precedent, and implies a lot of really obnoxious notions about why games get made at all. I'm reading your posts and expect you think there are sweet pea queens with Scrooge McDuck money bins full of sexy boodle that she, and not her actual game, earned.

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Regardless of how extreme or not the topic of sexism does exist amongst a gaming community or any community. Don't ask me to put up examples because I have far too many examples to list, having lived a long life as a female.

 

The OP has put up a discussion about how Brianna Wu is being threatened in real life. Yes she is a female however, I don't perceive this to be purely a sexist threat it's a problem of extreme bullying in general. There is many people that have had death threats from all types of internet social media. It is real and failure to acknowledge is total ignorance.

 

Just 5 days ago at a birthday party I met someone who is pro-active in trying to address online bullying. They are most interested to hear how I've dealt with gaming community forums. 

 

As for how bullying impacts our Crowfall community? ... let me just say this ... this community has improved a ton since I joined the CF forum on the first day and continued logging in every day to kick some butt where I felt it was needed. Some smack talk yes can be fun but there is a fine line.

 

Now as far as CF forum sexist remarks? ... I hadn't seen too much of that but I did notice a moderator recently question whether the female on here was actually a lady and he didn't just mean was she a female. I took exception to his comment. I will note that comment and continue to monitor.

 

Let us not rage about online threats being just a sexist problem, it extends to a whole community.


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I'm guessing you only read until you found a line that agrees with your opinion.

 

Here's one example:

 

 

 

The issue is not just in same jobs, it's how limited womens' access is in certain fields, not by choice but because they're shut out of the boys' club.  The equality issue should also add another name: "equal opportunity."

 

If you look under similar circumstances, you'll see leadership positions are dominated by men still.  You'll see lawyers in the same firms with the same wage gap.  You'll see a number of factors that indicate disparity.  Am I arguing that it's 77 cents on the dollar across the board?  No.  Am I arguing that there is in fact pay inequality?  Definitely.

If you're going to claim that women are being excluded from leadership positions in business on the basis of their gender, you need to provide some evidence that this is the case: recorded phone calls, memorandums, e-mails. If discrimination of this sort were really a thing, it would have been leaked by now. In reality, large corporations aren't interested in the gender of their officers, they're interested in turning a profit. If women were just as good, or better, than men in high paying leadership positions, they'd be hired on that basis.

 

The fact that men and women tend to specialize in different things isn't an indication that one gender is discriminating against the other, it simply tells us that men and women are different and live different lives. There's nothing wrong with disparity or inequality of this sort, despite what the demagogues may want us to believe.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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