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Equality In Gaming - Gamergate

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Many people will tend to minimalise comments. Most of the time if the chat moves along everyone pushes it aside. A majority of people take note though so that the next time a comment from that person has the same overtone it's usually jumped on as being unacceptable.

 

As a general rule however, most of our gaming community behaves in a manner that is true to the overall forum content. 

 

I'm more than happy that a vast majority of gamers, both male and female, work side by side equally.


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Yes but the chat became more about the difference between being a "lady" as opposed to a female.

I get you here too.  I read it all.  But, it seems that the person involved did not appear to be offended.  At all.   We can't be offended for someone by proxy.  I have to assume we can all take care of our own business and if need be report offenses that happen to US and trust they will be handled. Just my opinion. 


Maybe it not about the happy ending. Maybe it's about the story.

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I get you here too.  I read it all.  But, it seems that the person involved did not appear to be offended.  At all.   We can't be offended for someone by proxy.  I have to assume we can all take care of our own business and if need be report offenses that happen to US and trust they will be handled. Just my opinion. 

 

Roll Tide.

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1) Men tend to be brutally honest and straightforward with one another in the absence of women.

2)The men start walking around on eggshells, worrying about whether or not they'll be reported to Human Resources.

1) In my experience, some men lie constantly to bolster their own reputation. I figure if a man lies to me, he'll lie to everyone else, too. 

2) Men who are afraid of women in this way didn't have the benefit of forthright mommas to teach them how to act like gentlemen. 

 

Caveat: 1) Learned over time, 2) Mom of excellent boys. 

 

------

 

On the pay disparity thing:

 

I haven't seen anyone address the fact that women bear children, which has a significant negative impact on earning power, especially among the lower classes. It is a truth that women bear the greater biological burden of child-rearing over their lifetimes. This is a significant factor in persistent single mother poverty, and it also affects mothers in higher-paid industries in regard to promotions, raises, bonuses, etc. We generally get no slack on the job when it comes to hatching and raising up the next generation of people. Fathers, on the other hand, do not often self-identify as the primary parent of their offspring, and they are consequently not deeply affected in their professional development and progress. 

 

------

On Gamergate:

 

The accusation was specious, the claim was ill-prepared and lacking in evidence, and the outcome was appalling. 

 

 

Cheers!


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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1) In my experience, some men lie constantly to bolster their own reputation. I figure if a man lies to me, he'll lie to everyone else, too. 

2) Men who are afraid of women in this way didn't have the benefit of forthright mommas to teach them how to act like gentlemen. 

 

Caveat: 1) Learned over time, 2) Mom of excellent boys. 

 

------

 

On the pay disparity thing:

 

I haven't seen anyone address the fact that women bear children, which has a significant negative impact on earning power, especially among the lower classes. It is a truth that women bear the greater biological burden of child-rearing over their lifetimes. This is a significant factor in persistent single mother poverty, and it also affects mothers in higher-paid industries in regard to promotions, raises, bonuses, etc. We generally get no slack on the job when it comes to hatching and raising up the next generation of people. Fathers, on the other hand, do not often self-identify as the primary parent of their offspring, and they are consequently not deeply affected in their professional development and progress. 

 

I mentioned childbirth in my breakdown of the pay gap. You're absolutely right, men don't have to choose between being a full time mother, a full time worker, or splitting the difference.

Edited by soulein

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I mentioned childbirth in my breakdown of the pay gap. You're absolutely right, men don't have to choose between being a full time mother, a full time worker, or splitting the difference.

I'm sorry, I must have overlooked that bit. I'll have to reread the thread. 

 

I speak on the topic from what I've seen of students over many years, and from my own experience as a young professional trying to raise a family on an insufficient income. My single-mother students amaze me. I have no idea how they make things happen; two and three jobs, a couple of kids or so, exes who are difficult, AND school. 12-15 hours. Blows me away. My own experience does not compare, not at all. At my lowest point professionally, I was mom to two kids 4 and under, teaching part time at the local college and on contract for the local school board, and finishing my second master's degree. My situation was not that of my students who work at a couple of fast food places and pay for child care so they can go to school. Again, I have no idea how they do it. But they do. 

 

I occasionally see a dad in a similar situation. But 9 of 10 times, that dad has a family of support to fall back on, which I just don't see for my single-mom students. 

 

Effectively, the biological burden of motherhood keeps some women from ever reaching their intellectual and professional potential. That's a shame, because I have encountered some kick-arse momma students in my years of teaching. 

 

On the larger topic: I freely admit that I am a huge advocate of GIRL POWER!!! (which is an entirely different post in and of itself)


Click your profile name>Click Manage Ignore Prefs>Find "Add a new user to my list" at the bottom of the page>Type in a username>Check options>Save Changes>Silence is bliss.

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It is important to mention that becoming a mother is, in almost all circumstances, a choice.  I admit that it is an incredibly hard situation to be in if one's religion might make it difficult to terminate the pregnancy, but that's still a choice.  Better access to clinics and birth control is still something we need to improve, however.

 

Has this topic managed to turn itself into at least a somewhat civil discourse?  That would be great if so.

 

Edit:  It's also not impossible to become a single mother and put in poor conditions where once the choice may have seemed more stable, and that probably happens more than my previously stated "almost all circumstances."

Edited by Maverick827

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I don't doubt that there are a few men in games that hate females but in my decade + of gaming I have yet to meet a single one who expressed such views infront of me or any female who came to me as a guild leader to address such an issue. However I have many, many, many times encountered men who prettymuch worship the females in the group. Most females do not encourage this behavior, a few milk it for everything they can get out of it.

 

That's pretty much the male/female dynamic I see in the gaming community as a whole.


"To hell with honor. Win."

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Wasn't one of the chicks crying about gamergate, shamed because she actually did some pretty poorly made socksty stuff? Such as sleep with a bunch of game journalists to promote her game? Which is, effectively, bribery. Then once people found out about it, she played the female card.

 

Anyway, I stopped paying attention to the hogwash those girls were spouting after I heard that.

 

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH1052F2ZaY

Edited by cannibal man

Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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Wasn't one of the chicks crying about gamergate, shamed because she actually did some pretty poorly made socksty stuff? Such as sleep with a bunch of game journalists to promote her game? Which is, effectively, bribery. Then once people found out about it, she played the female card.

 

Anyway, I stopped paying attention to the hogwash those girls were spouting after I heard that.

 

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH1052F2ZaY

 

That was the accusation, and to be fair it seemed quite plausible initially. But even her ex-boyfriend, who originally released "The Zoe Post", edited the post to say he had no reason to believe she was sleeping with people for publicity or game reviews.

 

No evidence of that ever surfaced, she basically just cheated on her boyfriend with some people she happened to know through the game industry and that was it.

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Wasn't one of the chicks crying about gamergate, shamed because she actually did some pretty poorly made socksty stuff? Such as sleep with a bunch of game journalists to promote her game? Which is, effectively, bribery. Then once people found out about it, she played the female card.

 

Anyway, I stopped paying attention to the hogwash those girls were spouting after I heard that.

 

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH1052F2ZaY

 

There's been no proof that ZQ slept with anyone for positive coverage. What has been shown is that Nathan Grayson had been trying to get her in bed for 2 years, was friends with her and he gave positive coverage to her game.

 

All of the business/journalism ethics violations were on Grayson's part.

 

It's practically in the job description for a dev/publisher to buddy up to journalists for positive coverage. It's definitely in the job description for journalists to avoid such conflicts of interest, maintain a professional distance and remain objective in their coverage.


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There's been no proof that ZQ slept with anyone for positive coverage. What has been shown is that Nathan Grayson had been trying to get her in bed for 2 years, was friends with her and he gave positive coverage to her game.

 

All of the business/journalism ethics violations were on Grayson's part.

 

It's practically in the job description for a dev/publisher to buddy up to journalists for positive coverage. It's definitely in the job description for journalists to avoid such conflicts of interest, maintain a professional distance and remain objective in their coverage.

 

Yep, exactly.

 

Most people have known for a while that gaming "journalist" outlets like Kotaku are totally worthless, and all this just confirmed it. Beyond that and a few other (minor-ish) issues of unrelated corruption that were, everything got blown out of proportion and turned into a heated political debate.

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There's been no proof that ZQ slept with anyone for positive coverage. What has been shown is that Nathan Grayson had been trying to get her in bed for 2 years, was friends with her and he gave positive coverage to her game.

 

All of the business/journalism ethics violations were on Grayson's part.

 

It's practically in the job description for a dev/publisher to buddy up to journalists for positive coverage. It's definitely in the job description for journalists to avoid such conflicts of interest, maintain a professional distance and remain objective in their coverage.

So, in other words, this was just a typical man-female gaming relationship? Where man gives tons of poorly made socks to female in hopes that she likes him?

 

Lol, sounds like the typical poorly made socks.


Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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I occasionally see a dad in a similar situation. But 9 of 10 times, that dad has a family of support to fall back on, which I just don't see for my single-mom students. 

 

 

That is because of our wonderful justice system.  If the mom wants custody, the mom gets custody, 98% of the time. Single dads generally don't exist except that rare 2% of the time where the mom is so terrible that the judge decides to award the father custody.

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