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Is crowfall fundamentally boring?

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idk the game is still 1+ year away from release, it is useless to speculate on topics like that when nothing is set in stone yet. Even the campaignrulesets are not ready, so i will start to talk and speculate about this things, when i see a softlaunchdate and more contentdetails, right now it is pointless.

Edited by Kreigon

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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11 minutes ago, Kreigon said:

idk the game is still 1+ year away from release, it is useless to speculate on topics like that when nothing is set in stone yet. Even the campaignrulesets are not ready, so i will start to talk and speculate about this things, when i see a softlaunchdate and more contentdetails, right now it is pointless.

Every timetable still puts soft launch well under a year...   Even if we are into 2019, there will not be any massive shift to a theme park format of quest-mob-boss-gear economics.   Crowfall is not intended to provide the experience, it simply sets the parameters of the sandbox and nothing more... human interaction is the game and a lot of that will be conflict as is our nature.   that conflict will occur over the highest and least available resources and any other points of contact that the parameters set as points of interest.   

Edited by Frykka

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7 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

I beg to differ, I don't think I can recall a single MMO that I've played where I didn't start off with some kind of basic weapon, even though I think your point is irrelevant.  Stability may be a big deal to you, but its far from the only problem.  The game isn't fun right now, and its ok to admit that.

Hey look you are entitled to your opinion, but we all know how opinions are :D. Either way Now that I know I'm irrelevant as you say. I will be glad to let you drown in your own misery.

Edited by Xalon

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40 minutes ago, Frykka said:

Every timetable still puts soft launch well under a year...   Even if we are into 2019, there will not be any massive shift to a theme park format of quest-mob-boss-gear economics.   Crowfall is not intended to provide the experience, it simply sets the parameters of the sandbox and nothing more... human interaction is the game and a lot of that will be conflict as is our nature.   that conflict will occur over the highest and least available resources and any other points of contact that the parameters set as points of interest.   

i know you dont need to tell me that. I only mean that it is pointless to argue about "will it be boring", " will harvesting be exploited" if the mechanics are not or only partially in the game. And i don't see Crowfall for a softlaunch under 1 year.

Edited by Kreigon

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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54 minutes ago, Xalon said:

Hey look you are entitled to your opinion, but we all know how opinions are :D. Either way Now that I know I'm irrelevant as you say. I will be glad to let you drown in your own misery.

Thanks?  You didn’t make an argument, just a tantrum.  Please contribute to the discussion.


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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IMO, if a sandbox MMO is ever to truly succeed on its own then it needs to be fully 100% entertaining to play with no one else online.  That's the only way it can survive the ebb and flow of population drops after large player-based wars decimate the world.  If enough players can joyfully continue on in a downtrend, it's only a matter of time until new empires form and new wars will be waged. 

Shadowbane only had part of the equation figured out, and it still limped on for a decade with virtually no updates, attention, or care.  The mourning server had over 7 full cycles of global war and then peaceful slow times.  The process was fascinating. Expand on that poorly made socks!  Grinding is not the answer.  Whacking trees is not the answer.  Keep the basic game systems simple so you can eloquently layer them to create interesting mechanics. 

Look at terraria, you can play that piece of poorly made socks game for weeks on end completely alone and still have fun.  Steal ideas from that kind of poorly made socks!  If you go out into the world outside of a safe area, just have mobs start spawning around you in your AoI.  custard, simply surviving and getting your bearings can be both hard and intense!  No players even needed. Nothing should be a chore.  Raid a town of NPCs and start upgrading your armor and building your empire.  Let the loot flow.  It's not like you'll hold onto it long, anyhow - in such a merciless world.

While I haven't bothered to test any CF, if what Maj is saying is correct, then the only way this game will not be dead on arrival is if they take a massive risk and do a very large pivot on their plans.  The lag, poor network performance, fps issues and so on are irrelevant if this is not the first thing fixed.  I fear they raised too much money and were not pushed to work with little and slowly grow it into something awesome.  Instead, it seems like they started with too much and weren't prepared to manage it. 

I'd really like to see a post from them scrapping 90% of the game, taking a highly targeted approach forward, and focusing on getting a few incredibly key components done right.  Hire someone with custard vision who can force you to cut the fat and slap together a working model from the poorly made sockspile you've created.  Stop wasting money on hiring people to make more stupid archetype or class concept art.  It's doing nothing but wasting time and money.  Just focus on making something fun for small audience and let it get its legs from there.

Edited by frobobo

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This weekend was actually really fun. Always pvp going on and harvesting was dangerous.

All three factions have been relevant and fought in multiple large battles.

Edited by MJayed

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52 minutes ago, frobobo said:

IMO, if a sandbox MMO is ever to truly succeed on its own then it needs to be fully 100% entertaining to play with no one else online.  That's the only way it can survive the ebb and flow of population drops after large player-based wars decimate the world.  If enough players can joyfully continue on in a downtrend, it's only a matter of time until new empires form and new wars will be waged.

I'm not sure how true that is, but I cant really argue against it.  I think that more importantly, a PVP game like this has to be entertaining while your dreams of conquest are being crushed by a much stronger group of players.  Crowfall aims to solve this long standing problem by having these campaigns where defeat can be instantly remedied by restarting.  I'm not sure how effective this will end up being. 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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32 minutes ago, tsp_maj said:

I'm not sure how true that is, but I cant really argue against it.  I think that more importantly, a PVP game like this has to be entertaining while your dreams of conquest are being crushed by a much stronger group of players.  Crowfall aims to solve this long standing problem by having these campaigns where defeat can be instantly remedied by restarting.  I'm not sure how effective this will end up being. 

Everyone rushed to new server starts in Shadowbane. But you could always fall back to what you had.

Let's face it, I've fought in multiple "server wars".. the game got stale..entrenchment.. same players, different tags. Wolfpack tried it in an experiment, Cataclysm (cyclical server), but because people didn't want to lose duped gold, FC Gear etc. and multiple accounts of leveled toons (I had 4 paid accounts), no one wanted to "start over" every time. That got forced with the SB "Re-Launch" (Malog/Thurin/Saedron). Guess what? It didn't save a dying game. Here, you get the restart without losing the "toon". There are different rules here, and they aren't changing. I like that actually

The greater part of the game, 2004 on, I played with, Revelation/Ascending Fate, FTP and Shepherds of the Dead among others (Much Love to Chosen, Shomer & Wilte, M2S 4 LYFE). We were always dominant. Before that I was with the "Rainbow Alliance" (GoA) against UDL/EQ/DHL. I was usually on one of two dominant guilds, the other being QFT. Was it healthy? No.

 I don't need to explain that to you, the wolves cannibalized themselves when the sheep were all gone. This game gives a place for the sheep, without them, you will not survive. You won't be able to "gank your way" to victory (at least not in the Dregs, who's going to sell you poorly made socks, and you get zero imports). You won't be able to get the best gear without getting people that want to craft, farm and build, which is a full time job. Logistics and resources will be the life line. Of course PvP prowess will matter. Politics will matter. But in large parts, I think ACE has addressed what was "wrong" with shadowbane. That is also a good thing. It is by design. 


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3 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

Thanks?  You didn’t make an argument, just a tantrum.  Please contribute to the discussion.

I'm sorry you thought that was an argument. I gave an opinion and tried to show you how the game isnt as hard as you seem to beleive. But nothing that anyone says will make you beleive otherwise. And as far as my "tantrum" as you say. If you wanna see a "tantrum" jus look back at all your posts sir. I wasnt attacking you just merely trying to help you. Goodluck I won't bother with you again.:)

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1 hour ago, Armegeddon said:

 I don't need to explain that to you, the wolves cannibalized themselves when the sheep were all gone. This game gives a place for the sheep, without them, you will not survive. You won't be able to "gank your way" to victory (at least not in the Dregs, who's going to sell you poorly made socks, and you get zero imports). You won't be able to get the best gear without getting people that want to craft, farm and build, which is a full time job. Logistics and resources will be the life line. Of course PvP prowess will matter. Politics will matter. But in large parts, I think ACE has addressed what was "wrong" with shadowbane. That is also a good thing. It is by design. 

Where is the place for the sheep in this game? 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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57 minutes ago, Xalon said:

I'm sorry you thought that was an argument. I gave an opinion and tried to show you how the game isnt as hard as you seem to beleive. But nothing that anyone says will make you beleive otherwise. And as far as my "tantrum" as you say. If you wanna see a "tantrum" jus look back at all your posts sir. I wasnt attacking you just merely trying to help you. Goodluck I won't bother with you again.:)

Thanks.


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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12 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

Where is the place for the sheep in this game? 

Besides the EKs, I'll address the Game World. There are the Faction rule sets, but even in the Dregs (GvG), generally, there is a place created within guilds that would not ordinairily house them.

Here, recruiting people that "Want to" farm, craft and explore will be an asset. There will be an absolute need to keep the war machine fed. These "sheep" will be a large part of that. Where under the "old rules", such players were discarded (there was no need for such in shadowbane for example), they will be a valuable commodity here. To get the high end contested mats, they will have to be protected of course.... which means PvP!

I may be different, though I prefer PvP,  I don't necessarily mind harvesting resources. I don't really see it as a grind at all, though there is a method to it. I consider it as a process to widen the gap over others that don't plan/organize accordingly. I see it as a build, a means to the end, which is dominance (or the effort to achieve it). From the production of gear to vessels, gathering the required resources in mass quantity, collective with others, will win wars over those that give less effort. But not everyone is like me. I have 4 accounts and there are many in my guild that have much more than that. If one finds themselves as a PvPer, and only have one account, or a collection of such people, many will want to have people to do what they do not want to. Again, that is where the sheep come in. Given the limited duration of campaigns and the race against hunger, I can't forsee "ganking your way" to resource independence. 

Edited by Armegeddon

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Let me just say the glimpse I saw of 5.6 this weekend when everyone was packed into the East server was nothing short of amazing. Best MMORPG experience I've had since DFUW in 2012. Constant open world, organic PVP action. 

The game has a long ways to go still but the potential for greatness is there and I think we're on the cusp of it being realized. 

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46 minutes ago, blazzen said:

Let me just say the glimpse I saw of 5.6 this weekend when everyone was packed into the East server was nothing short of amazing. Best MMORPG experience I've had since DFUW in 2012. Constant open world, organic PVP action. 

The game has a long ways to go still but the potential for greatness is there and I think we're on the cusp of it being realized. 

Just imagine when they get the expanded map, guild support and free city placement.... It will be good times indeed.


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On 5/29/2018 at 11:42 AM, tsp_maj said:

This game is highly competitive, and highly competitive people will do exactly the thing which is most productive to their success in the game, often to their own detriment.  This means that people will burn out quickly when they finally sit back to recognize the trap they’ve fallen into.

On 5/29/2018 at 6:11 AM, tsp_maj said:

In my vision resources will be acquired through PVP action and conquest, in moments of high intensity as opposed to a long drawn out contest of who can hit the most trees over the longest period. 

 

I agree with both these points - and I hope ACE will consider adding a way to link PvP conquest/territory control to resource collection (in addition to the standard node-based harvesting time grind).


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11 hours ago, Armegeddon said:

Besides the EKs, I'll address the Game World. There are the Faction rule sets, but even in the Dregs (GvG), generally, there is a place created within guilds that would not ordinairily house them.

Here, recruiting people that "Want to" farm, craft and explore will be an asset. There will be an absolute need to keep the war machine fed. These "sheep" will be a large part of that. Where under the "old rules", such players were discarded (there was no need for such in shadowbane for example), they will be a valuable commodity here. To get the high end contested mats, they will have to be protected of course.... which means PvP!

I may be different, though I prefer PvP,  I don't necessarily mind harvesting resources. I don't really see it as a grind at all, though there is a method to it. I consider it as a process to widen the gap over others that don't plan/organize accordingly. I see it as a build, a means to the end, which is dominance (or the effort to achieve it). From the production of gear to vessels, gathering the required resources in mass quantity, collective with others, will win wars over those that give less effort. But not everyone is like me. I have 4 accounts and there are many in my guild that have much more than that. If one finds themselves as a PvPer, and only have one account, or a collection of such people, many will want to have people to do what they do not want to. Again, that is where the sheep come in. Given the limited duration of campaigns and the race against hunger, I can't forsee "ganking your way" to resource independence. 

No major arguments here but I think you're poorly categorizing.

The first thing I'd like to define is what I'm going to call the Alpha Wolves.  These are the people that will be winning Crowfall hands down.  They are the people that have the time, ability, and mental fortitude to play CF at a level of intensity that is difficult to predict.  They will quickly find each other, and with strong leadership will be pretty much unbeatable pound for pound.  To this class of player, we're all sheep. 

Below that you'll have guilds like ours, filled with old vets that know how to throw down but lack the time, skill, or mental fortitude to compete at the highest level.  Though I'd like to say I could name off 20 or so guilds that compete frequently at this tier, in reality there are probably around 100 that have potential.  These people in my eyes are wolves.  They have played so long together that they expect to be successful in the game, and that to them is likely to be anywhere in the top 30% (arbitrary).  Naturally, they consider anyone below them to be considered sheep.  One important thing to note is that following a natural desire for progression these guilds will be aiming for the level of success that the Alpha Wolf players will be getting.

The next tier is made up of new players, and or people that simply don't compete in those higher tiers.  Of course, to us these people are sheep.  They will lack the general knowledge that goes with rigorous pre-launch game experience and solid well founded coordination.  Whats interesting is that if I'm saying that the prior tiers make up 35% of the game in total, that means that *math* 65% of our players will need to be this type.  These players naturally aspire to move up to the next tier, but nobody likes to lose.  That's why these players need some kind of carrot on a stick, or something to keep them interested even while they are losing. 

Players that like to focus on crafting or harvesting are not sheep but are more of a rare commodity in my book.  Put plainly though, these people are not necessary in guilds like ours that are prioritizing PVP success.  "Hardcore" players will always do whatever it takes to be the best, and whether they like it or not, they will harvest and craft at the highest level of competition if that's what it takes to win.


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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11 hours ago, tsp_maj said:

No major arguments here but I think you're poorly categorizing.

The first thing I'd like to define is what I'm going to call the Alpha Wolves.  These are the people that will be winning Crowfall hands down.  They are the people that have the time, ability, and mental fortitude to play CF at a level of intensity that is difficult to predict.  They will quickly find each other, and with strong leadership will be pretty much unbeatable pound for pound.  To this class of player, we're all sheep. 

Below that you'll have guilds like ours, filled with old vets that know how to throw down but lack the time, skill, or mental fortitude to compete at the highest level.  Though I'd like to say I could name off 20 or so guilds that compete frequently at this tier, in reality there are probably around 100 that have potential.  These people in my eyes are wolves.  They have played so long together that they expect to be successful in the game, and that to them is likely to be anywhere in the top 30% (arbitrary).  Naturally, they consider anyone below them to be considered sheep.  One important thing to note is that following a natural desire for progression these guilds will be aiming for the level of success that the Alpha Wolf players will be getting.

The next tier is made up of new players, and or people that simply don't compete in those higher tiers.  Of course, to us these people are sheep.  They will lack the general knowledge that goes with rigorous pre-launch game experience and solid well founded coordination.  Whats interesting is that if I'm saying that the prior tiers make up 35% of the game in total, that means that *math* 65% of our players will need to be this type.  These players naturally aspire to move up to the next tier, but nobody likes to lose.  That's why these players need some kind of carrot on a stick, or something to keep them interested even while they are losing. 

Players that like to focus on crafting or harvesting are not sheep but are more of a rare commodity in my book.  Put plainly though, these people are not necessary in guilds like ours that are prioritizing PVP success.  "Hardcore" players will always do whatever it takes to be the best, and whether they like it or not, they will harvest and craft at the highest level of competition if that's what it takes to win.

Agreed, except for the part in bold text. I think there will be a lot more than you realize.


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I haven't taken time to read through this whole thread, but I just downloaded the game today and hopped on. 

At first glance through the streams I have seen, it looks like Crowfall would be an action packed game. 

However, for 3-4 hours today, all I did was smash trees and mash on silver/cold/marble, etc... and collect materials. 

I had zero interaction with any NPCs or other players which lead me to feel like it was an endless grind. 

How long does this go on for? It's tedious and overall boring to just chop down trees for hours this early on. There's literally 0 interaction. 

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12 minutes ago, Sbz said:

I haven't taken time to read through this whole thread, but I just downloaded the game today and hopped on. 

At first glance through the streams I have seen, it looks like Crowfall would be an action packed game. 

However, for 3-4 hours today, all I did was smash trees and mash on silver/cold/marble, etc... and collect materials. 

I had zero interaction with any NPCs or other players which lead me to feel like it was an endless grind. 

How long does this go on for? It's tedious and overall boring to just chop down trees for hours this early on. There's literally 0 interaction. 

Walk to a fort you don't own and you will find interaction.

 

Every time I go to farm I miss PvP.

Edited by MJayed

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