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Helix

Is crowfall fundamentally boring?

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3 minutes ago, Deernado said:

They are obviously not finished yet but they are already in Beta i could see a release near the end of this year.

Beta is a vague term. Just because they call it a Beta doesn't mean it more finished than Crowfall's Pre-Alpha.

Everyone I've spoken with who has tried both says Crowfall is in fact further along than CU. Have you played both?


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Arguing semantics is fun and all, but the Beta 1 Document you are alluding to has been up for a few months. Only a fool would deny that what they've shown performs great, but there is no way this game will release before the end of 2019.

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17 minutes ago, Jah said:

Beta is a vague term. Just because they call it a Beta doesn't mean it more finished than Crowfall's Pre-Alpha.

Everyone I've spoken with who has tried both says Crowfall is in fact further along than CU. Have you played both?

CU can fit over 350 players in a single fight and maintain high fps....CF is having FPS issues with far less of that number.

 CU seems to run alot smoother with alot more players.

Edited by Deernado

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Just now, Deernado said:

Tab target is the same as DAOC, which I loved, and they have more then 10 classes. Each realm has 10 different classes = 30 classes overall.

 

I didn't realize you know next to nothing about the game.  Let me break this down for you further.  There are 3 factions each with ten classes and each faction shares the same ten classes but the heavy fighter for one faction wildly different than the heavy fight for the other factions. 

  • Devout:  Abbot (Authurian), Blessed Crow (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Helbound (Viking).
  • Archers (won't have its camouflage in at release):  Blackguard (Authurian), Forest Stalker (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Winters Shadow (Viking).
  • Heavy Fighters:  Black Knight (Authurian), Fianna (Tuatha Dé Danann), and Mjolnir (Viking).
  • Spirit Mages (won't make it in before release):  Dread Caller (Authurian), Morrigan (Tuatha Dé Danann), Slaughter-wolf (Viking).
  • Shape Shifters (won't make it in before release):  Enchanted Knight (Authurian), Black Rider (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Child of Loki (Viking).
  • Mages: Flame Warden (Authurian), Druid (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Wave Weaver (Viking).
  • Support:  Minstrel (Authurian),  Dark Fool (Tuatha Dé Danann), and Skald (Viking).
  • Healers:  Physician (Authurian), Empath (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Stonehealer (Viking).
  • Scouts (won't make it in before release) Specter (Authurian), Wisp (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Arisen (Viking).
  • Stealthers (won't make it in before release) Veilstalker (Authurian), Red Cap (Tuatha Dé Danann) and Shadow Walker (Viking).

 

Don't bring weak arguments about a game that isn't even the game for these boards and be wildly inaccurate simply because you feel a certain way.  hogwash will not be tolerated here and will be smashed with facts. 

 

 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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you made the comment of only 10 classes...there are 30. 10 per realm. they are fit into class archetype, nbut each class is different with different abilities...

they are not the same classes. lol

 

And I guess deer can't eat meat right....rofl

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6 minutes ago, Deernado said:

you made the comment of only 10 classes...there are 30. 10 per realm. they are fit into class archetype, nbut each class is different with different abilities...

they are not the same classes. lol

 

And I guess deer can't eat meat right....rofl

They say its ten classes.  That's how CU organizes their poorly made socks.  You got a problem with what they call it I suggest you email Mark Jacobs and whinge to him instead of whinging to us  here. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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13 minutes ago, mandalore said:

They say its ten classes.  That's how CU organizes their poorly made socks.  You got a problem with what they call it I suggest you email Mark Jacobs and whinge to him instead of whinging to us  here. 

Actually they say 30 classes and 10 archetypes...

Why so serious, you seem angry. All I said was I think the game will be out by the end of the year and you turn all negative, call names and insults and such..

Why so serious....

I guess my real question is, is everything ok in your life? A person shouldn't get so upset discussing a game on a forum. 

I mean you took a fairly funny and sarcastic Elken thread and turned it serious about deers not eating meat....

 

You might want to read over my comments, i never insulted anyone or said anything negative...You might want to take a break from forums if these discussions upset you so.

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1 minute ago, Deernado said:

Actually they say 30 classes and 10 archetypes...

Why so serious, you seem angry. All I said was I think the game will be out by the end of the year and you turn all negative, call names and insults and such..

Why so serious....

I guess my real question is, is everything ok in your life? A person shouldn't get so upset discussing a game on a forum. 

I mean you took a fairly funny and sarcastic Elken thread and turned it serious about deers not eating meat....

 

You might want to read over my comments, i never insulted anyone or said anything negative...You might want to take a break from forums if these discussions upset you so.

Upset?  This is my default. 


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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On 23/03/2018 at 2:27 AM, scipio said:

It takes too long, and requires too many people to get a character ready to fight.  Not every one has an account for everything, or a friend with every crafter.  On top of that if you have your own blacksmith you have to find a leather worker or woodworker to help you make anything.  You should not need three characters and four trade skills to make armor. (Miner/Skinner Blacksmith/leather worker)  

This type of scale will run a lot of people off. Especially when it will get destroyed in one good day of fighting.  Any new player without a good guild supporting him would just quit. And that is not even including the hours it takes at each step, gathering, crafting, switching accounts, waiting at loading screens, or gathering to make gathering items. Bleh

Will be easier when there possible for NPC merchant to sell crafter wares.


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On 23/03/2018 at 8:30 AM, PopeUrban said:

I honestly think most of what's implemented is in a pretty good state, and the biggest issues are economic and easily fixed.

It takes too long to roll gear, but I can reasonably see that being mitigated heavily via mass production. This system worked well in SWG, making crafting valuable but making reproducing good rolls en masse the goal of the serious crafter so that you'd only actually spend a lot of time rolling occasionally. This was how my crafting life worked in SWG. maybe once a month I'd roll blueprints with 20% of my mats, and reserve the other 80% for mass producing the best rolls.

Vendor buy orders and 100% effective EK or in-campaign vendor uptime needs to be a priority. Buy orders create an ad-hoc 'quest' system that structures play for all involved. Buy orders answer an important new player question of 'what do i do?' because its obvious the moment someone tells you "check vendors" You find a vendor buying a thing you're good at getting, and you go get that, and spend the money on things you need. Buy orders are also the mechanism by which crafters by and large gain enough materials to reasonably supply randoms. The way the harvesting and crafting systems are designed, its going to take multiple players or accounts to get items resourced and made, and buy orders are a necessary asynchronous solution to funnel those mats to crafters so they can spend their shopping time looking for quality components they need from other crafters. Without buy orders this economy can not function. Without a reliable source of vendor slots within campaigns this economy will not function. Faction campaigns are especially sensitive to this need, as they are the first stop for most new players, and the place where most players with a high degree of reliance on merchants rather than guildmates will settle. I don't care how ACE does it, but players need to be able to place and browse vendors in factions campaigns with no upper limit on avaliable space. Make it an instanced "vendor island" with a dropdown list for players that have set up vendors you can gate to from the beach head or something, I don't care, but Faction campaigns will not survive if the only vendor option is to blow a bunch of imports/exports to go shopping or sell things. In campaign vendors will not survive in faction campaigns if there is a limited space to deploy them and players can be effectively "locked out" of campaign vendor placement by their own faction (or worse, enemy factions with alt accounts purposely filling the space) Limited vendor space is appropriate in GvG where the option always exists to simply remove offending vendors by force, but that option does not exist in faction campaigns and as such a solution that creates effectively unlimited vendor space is necessary.

It costs a reasonable amount of resources to roll gear, but that gear decays too quickly. I can see this being fixed easily by implementing a 1:1 copy of the shadowbane repair system as a gold sink (and honestly, gold needs more sinks than sacrifice and paying vendors for it to have economic teeth. Repair your gear to full for a gold price relative to its complexity (total experimentation points invested?) but each repair lowers the max durability by 100. Leave the material costs alone

At actual training speeds it takes an inordinate amount of time to skill in to more efficient methods of gaining bulk resources. I'm fine with the current paradigm of node ranks and the slow drip of higher rarity mats, but common materials should probably be largely exempt from plentiful harvest, or we should get some additional discs obtainable for early players that allow them to make up the difference. Perhaps a minor harvesting disc that adds 1 rank of plentiful to a specific resource type (e.g. Oak Expert adds 1 rank of plentiful to oak nodes only) which would allow new players to hyperspecialize at a heavy opportunity cost, and as they grow in to their skill trees, get potions, or get together with skilled party leaders eventually replace these discs with other ones that allow them to more easily avoid ganks.

On your repair system im not sure how it worked in shadowbane but mabinogi had an interesting system which is similiar to Bless online (With the exception of no way to get MAX dura back)
basicly those system allowed to repair your armor however there a chance to loose max durability so eventually gear dura would be too low to practicaly use so it would be salvaged or sold (In bless u could repair max dura but i wouldnt include that in Crowfall) basicly you could pay gold aka gold sink to repair your gear but eventually the max dura would go down to the point of being useless and they will rebuy the armor set from somone.


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On 3/22/2018 at 11:24 AM, Helix said:

I've harvested in other games, but it's different with crowfall. It's literally the most mind-numbing dull experience I've ever experienced in a video game

 

Watching mining cycles in EvE is a lot more fun....<_<

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3 hours ago, nordsense said:

 

Watching mining cycles in EvE is a lot more fun....<_<

I feel like we might get some traction from looking at the Harvesting system in Fortnite. It's engaging, and forces the player to be interactive with the nodes in order to get the max out of it, and in order to shorten the time it takes to farm. This also helps to limit botting in the farming of mats on the PvE side of the fence. 

 


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I feel like this thread is both logical, based on the point at which the game is in development, and the time it's taken to get it this far. I also feel as though the thread was designed to be inflammatory to get people to read and post... and I suppose it worked. 

As I get older, I am constantly confronted with the view that generationally, gamers are going to repeat the same feelings at the same arcs within game development cycles. And that there's a dual bladed nature to opening your Development to the General Public. 

Harvesting, Generational Terrain, Temporary Campaign Worlds, and Tier Crafting are core elements of the game. As such, they've been around in their most basic forms since the inception of the Pre-Alpha... *cough* Pre-Alpha... which we're currently in. Therefore, these are both the most Stable... and linear elements of the game. As well as the elements we've been exposed to for the longest.

There are definitely some balance issues in the game. And there are sound points presented across the posts for this thread. But I feel like the general frustration at the lack of flare and interactivity in Crowfall as a whole is like getting mad at a cereal company for making really healthy Cheerios. Yes, it's not Musili, and it's not Honey bunches of oats... heck, at times it's not even frosted flakes... but that's because our proverbial Cereal Factory hasn't opened its doors to the general public.

We're several builds behind Development... and a multitude of unstable features haven't even seen the light of day yet. And I think that's largely because the Developers don't want to commit the ultimate sin and overpromise / under-deliver.

And I'm grateful for that. I've sunk a lot of time, and a lot of money into this project, because I believe that Crowfall is spun from Talent, and from a desire to see a thriving game world. But I fight hard to make sure that I don't try to see the game for what it's not. Yes, this may be year three for me playing... but the clock hasn't even hit Day one on the actual game creation.

At year three, Crowfall will be a highly connected, feature rich, niche MMORPG. It's Sandbox elements, and PvP to PvE ratios will be balanced. It will be filled with lore, and a smooth running, well oiled machine with a high lore base and dedicated custom content generating community. But all of it begins with that simple, stable, functional, boring bowl of cheerios. 

Am I... are WE... hungry for more? Of course. We can all see ACE for what they are... a foundation of something we had thought dead in the gaming industry a decade ago. Do we crave to have that completed project in our hands now? Yes. I want to be building Quests, Smashing the ground to build a river in my EK, and running with friends to avoid the coming of Winter long enough to build one...more...damnable... sword... before that world falls into the Abyss of the Arch of the Nine Heavens. But I know that I've spent thousands of dollars on failed MMOs in the last few years who had shiny content out of the gate, and were dead in both gameplay and community a month in...

When I see the community here, I see a very intelligent, and passionate group of people who crave what this game has to offer. And I can understand the impatient at the lack of depth and flare in the system. You can poke over to my most recent suggestion thread and see some of the overall suggestions I've been working on creating functional mockups for the Dev team on. Believe me... I get it.

Voxel Based, Content Hacking Farming is boring. Tree based Crafting with no diversity in ingredient or variation of recipe is boring. Having your gear decay and then spinning another clone of it, all for a world that will die in a month is boring. But most of the parts of your Television are boring on their own too, and don't do a damnable thing until they're assembled into a 4k on which to play Gears of War.

I recommend trying to keep this in perspective. And to attempt to keep suggestions upbeat and positive. It pays to never judge the quality of the flour being used until after the cake is being baked. Our job is to help tweak the flavor and the overall design to make it as palpable for the general public and hard core fans as possible. We paid, to step in for a small studio and help with QA, and community building. If sitting at the table, waiting for scraps of food to evolve doesn't suit, perhaps it's time to leave the table for a bit, and wait for some more hearty progress.

But the initial point stands; the core stable elements, in their current form, are a tad droll. Fortunately, I doubt it will stay that way. Perhaps, a suggestion in the self named forum with potentials to increase the overall quality of the experience might be in order. Offer up some tidbits to increase the enjoyment of what is, by its necessity a grind, and we'll see if we can't grow the idea instead of just bashing it.


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TLDR; summary?


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

wiDfyPp.png

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He's bored. Didn't have the desire to create a constructive argument. The followup posts offered good suggestions. I offered perspective about it being a Pre-Alpha, and solid base features... then used a lot of metaphors about Cereal and Cake. You didn't miss much in not reading my Independence Day Speech. I'll look at getting that soap box fixed.


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BTT:

On 28.3.2018 at 6:41 AM, PopeUrban said:

I want to fight over things that matter.

We need something to fight for. To demonstrate the current state of the game, the tutorial vids and a three minutes flythrough of the 5.7 campaign would be enough. ACE, keep us interested or someone else will.

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On 7/30/2018 at 4:29 PM, wor said:

Just gonna keep randomly posting here til they fix the completely lackluster combat. k thx

Combat is pretty meh, I'm not sure what they can do about it tho, or if anything is even planned. Seems like they're happy with it and it's not really awful; it's just seems under developed in comparison to the rest of the systems and doesn't really offer something "new".

Edited by Helix

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Newcomer from Albion Online (and other MMORPGs) here.

 

Regarding economy: I think there are very few things that need to be worked out. Mostly, players having to gather and craft items is cool, but not all players need to do that; there needs to be a market to sell/buy items with higher and lower tier items. The higher the tier, the more expensive and strong the gear is, so you can use unexpensive gear to play and have fun and when things get serious, you use the gear that you wanted to go with. Not having strong gear means that fights will get repetitive.

 

Combat: I've watched a few videos and I think that combat is fun, but slightly lackluster. It doesn't bring anything special to the table and there will be less space for innovation due to having the same skills for a long time. I think having gear or skill trees changing your skills or effects would be cool. I still don't know if disciplines will be enough.

 

I feel like the game is exactly what it is marketing for, it is exactly what the devs want it to be. But if it wants to become bigger, to have more, it needs more. The classes (moving from archtypes) and races are really cool IMO, and maybe in the future having expansions for classes would bring more people together. Pre-alpha means the game doesn't have too much content and lacks testing for that, but we'll see how it goes on betas.

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