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jtoddcoleman

02/12/15 - The Confessor, God History & Pricing Faq

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So you are saying that the balance consist on players killing the player who bought the cool sword and stealing that sword from him?

 

First, you have to kill him and it has a good sword to defend himself

 

Second, for the rulesets we could see until now, you only have 20% chance to drop EQUIPED items in one world, the other/s are only inventory loot. You can't steal his top-notch equipment bought with real life money if he has those items equiped (and he will).

Theres also decay even if it doesn't drop 100% its eventually going to be destroyed. and back to other point can still acquire the same gear through in game means. Plus doesn't sound like this is going to be a game were gear is the end all be all like some other games. it'll be important no doubt but likely they want build and player skill be bigger determining factors.

Edited by pang

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Oh, I know they need to make money, and micro transactions, sure fine. But everything should be player-bound. Not one thing tradeable. Problem solved. They still get their money and we still get our products. My fear, is that they know that players (mostly whales) will be intentionally buying large amounts of micro-transactions for the intent of selling them in-game to amass large amount of resources/currency, etc. They are playing on the fact that these whales and guys that want to get an edge, will buy them in bulk. That's pretty scary imho.

 

I didn't forget player loot, it was in my original post before replying. And no, Pay2Win does not mean the only way to acquire items is via paying IRL cash.

 

You forget Gold farmers.  Let me restate one of your comments: 

"My fear, is that they know that players (mostly whales) will be intentionally buying large amounts of micro-transactions gold from farmers for the intent of selling them using it in-game to amass large amount of resources/currency, etc.

 

Having an subscription-linked currency lets the average person cut out the middleman, which is a good thing.  Also, being able to kill bots and take at least some of their stuff will be delightful!


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Didn't answer the question though. How did one win by getting the sword using the indirect irl cash method if I can get the same exact gear through in game means, either buy it with gold i made in game or loot it out of his cold dead hands.

 

Pay 2 win means exactly that. You pay for an advantage (win) over others who can't get that same advantage through any other means.

Hmmm? So, going off what you're saying for your definition of P2W: Paying for an advantage

 

Your example: I bought some uber sword with indirect irl cash before you, because I had the in-game resources/currency to buy it before you even had the time/skills to amass it. I win the fight. Now even before I won the fight, I paid for an advantage. Now, I won the fight also. Damn, I am really good at this game, I barely broke a sweat buying the uber sword/armor before going into a campaign (which allows me to).

 

Of course, it will only be balance when everyone arrives naked in certain campaigns. AND not allowed to use indirect IRL cash to do anything in those campaigns. Grrr, fine line indeed. We are still missing information on this. Are we going to be able to get the advantage during a campaign, or is it just in EK?

 

 

7. Can I buy resources (stone, iron, wood) from ACE?
No. Once the only way to get resources will be to either earn them by participating in Campaigns, or by trading with other players.
 
 
8. Can items and resources be traded between players?
Yes. This the foundation of a player-driven economy.
 
 
9. Can I trade VIP membership tickets to other players?
Yes. This means that people who purchase the game, but don’t want to pay a monthly subscription, can still become VIP members by providing goods and services to other players.

 

 

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Eve only had passive training (well beta and the first year were different).  Crowfall will have active and passive.  if you are active enough you can catch up to veteran players. In Eve, you couldn't do that.

 

AC can't control black markets.  If it were controllable then most MMO companies would stop it.

 

Uh, they do.  Eve uses isk to plex, gw2 uses gems to gold, even puzzle pirates uses a similar mechanism.

 

It doesn't completely eliminate them, but it forces them to compete against the game itself in price, and reduces the number of account thefts and other problems.  Unfortunately I don't think anyone has gone the route of removing all transaction fees, which would probably be optimal.

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actually, you can gain an advantage.

 

I buy an item(s) that allow me to change the looks of my gear to be that of a new character.

 

Ummm that a big assumption that you can make yourself look like a noob via a cosmetic item.

 

I think what a lot of you are forgetting is that the weapons and armor are all going to be player made.  It is still going to take time to gather resources and make the items.  Yes they use their gold to buy items but then another character has that money to spend on something else and something else and so on so the power is distributed between the characters not all given to one person.


Tanom of the WhiteWalkers

 

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You forget Gold farmers.  Let me restate one of your comments: 

"My fear, is that they know that players (mostly whales) will be intentionally buying large amounts of micro-transactions gold from farmers for the intent of selling them using it in-game to amass large amount of resources/currency, etc.

 

Having an subscription-linked currency lets the average person cut out the middleman, which is a good thing.  Also, being able to kill bots and take at least some of their stuff will be delightful!

Chances are, if the Gold-Farmers invade (and most likely they will)... it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than obtaining it via sub/sale in game. But again, who knows. Player-driven economy... inflation, recession. What do we do with these resources exactly in EK...still a lot of information missing.

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Didn't answer the question though. How did one win by getting the sword using the indirect irl cash method if I can get the same exact gear through in game means, either buy it with gold i made in game or loot it out of his cold dead hands.

 

Pay 2 win means exactly that. You pay(irl cash) for an advantage (win) over others who can't get that same advantage through any other means.

 

You can probably pay a guild to crash a siege, or take a castle too with money - it's hard to balance that in-game, Pang.

At least you can kill and loot gold bots - so it won't be an issue in this game with afk macro farming to sell ebay gold in Crowfall.

Edited by Mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Hmmm? So, going off what you're saying for your definition of P2W: Paying for an advantage

 

 

 

 

 

Read the whole sentence.  "paying for an advantage you can't get by any other means."

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Uh, they do.  Eve uses isk to plex, gw2 uses gems to gold, even puzzle pirates uses a similar mechanism.

 

It doesn't completely eliminate them, but it forces them to compete against the game itself in price, and reduces the number of account thefts and other problems.  Unfortunately I don't think anyone has gone the route of removing all transaction fees, which would probably be optimal.

 

you do know that gold farmers can always sell gold for less than any official game can.  Look at wildstar, eve online, archeage and any countless other mmo's that have those systems.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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Couple things to note here:

 

1) People are assuming there is going to be tier'd gear here. Meaning a sword as example having a higher value over others. I am willing to bet the gear in this game won't be determining factors in most cases. Think shadowbane gear vs WoW gear here. I am willing to bet being naked will allow a player to remain competitive with a slight disadvantage only.

 

2) We are assuming there is going to be a currency ie money. They could go the route of no in game currency and trading is all based on resources. Unless I missed somewhere they stated there was currency.

 

Can I trade VIP membership tickets to other players?

 

Yes. This means that people who purchase the game, but don’t want to pay a monthly subscription, can still become VIP members by providing goods and services to other players.

 

 

 

 

3) Binding micro items to account solves all the biatching going on :P

Edited by sarin

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Ummm that a big assumption that you can make yourself look like a noob via a cosmetic item.

 

it was extreme, yes.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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Couple things to note here:

 

1) People are assuming there is going to be tier'd gear here. Meaning a sword as example having a higher value over others. I am willing to bet the gear in this game won't be determining factors in most cases. Think shadowbane gear vs WoW gear here. I am willing to bet being naked will allow a player to remain competitive with a slight disadvantage only.

 

2) We are assuming there is going to be a currency ie money. They could go the route of no in game currency and trading is all based on resources. Unless I missed somewhere they stated there was currency.

 

3) Binding micro items to account solves all the biatching going on :P

 

1) I can't see adding a Thrall into an item will be competitive against a quickly made item.  There will be tiered items. It might not be similar to WoW and their item level.

2) we're assuming there will be a tradeable currency, like gold.  Not to many people want to trade ducks for ore for pigs for a weapon.

3) that solves the cash shop but no the VIP Ticket (which we're assuming is like PLEX, APEX, CREDD, etc). An item tradeable for VIP for 1 month once consumed.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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Hmmm? So, going off what you're saying for your definition of P2W: Paying for an advantage

 

Your example: I bought some uber sword with indirect irl cash before you, because I had the in-game resources/currency to buy it before you even had the time/skills to amass it. I win the fight. Now even before I won the fight, I paid for an advantage. Now, I won the fight also. Damn, I am really good at this game, I barely broke a sweat buying the uber sword/armor before going into a campaign (which allows me to).

 

Of course, it will only be balance when everyone arrives naked in certain campaigns. AND not allowed to use indirect IRL cash to do anything in those campaigns. Grrr, fine line indeed. We are still missing information on this. Are we going to be able to get the advantage during a campaign, or is it just in EK?

 

 

 

 

 

I remember a discussion I had in an Archeage subreddit saying the same thing. People always think that a given advantage using cash is not pay to win, but there are real whales out there that spend thousands of dollars. I can attest to it from multiple MMORPGs where I've seen people that have full time high paying jobs drop paycheck into paycheck and they have a massive advantage. I don't see how some people don't call that pay to win.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/2erupn/if_apex_is_bought_with_real_money_and_sold_in/ck2c15b

 

 

Now everyone says Archeage is P2W. How the tides have turned.

 

But if they truly keep the cash shop cosmetic, it would be pretty hard to P2W unless you spend some major cash. But really, that's unavoidable as some whales get their way even if there is no real cash commodity.

Edited by anj

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Uh, they do.  Eve uses isk to plex, gw2 uses gems to gold, even puzzle pirates uses a similar mechanism.

 

It doesn't completely eliminate them, but it forces them to compete against the game itself in price, and reduces the number of account thefts and other problems.  Unfortunately I don't think anyone has gone the route of removing all transaction fees, which would probably be optimal.

 

They can charge a lot less and people who are willing to buy from them will opt for the cheaper price. Worse, I think they manipulate the in game value of things like PLEX and gems to increase the price.

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I remember a discussion I had in an Archeage subreddit saying the same thing.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/archeage/comments/2erupn/if_apex_is_bought_with_real_money_and_sold_in/ck2c15b

 

 

Now everyone says Archeage is P2W. How the tides have turned.

 

But if they truly keep the cash shop cosmetic, it would be pretty hard to P2W unless you spend some major cash. But really, that's unavoidable as some whales get their way even if there is no real cash commodity.

At first it wasn't pay 2 win(or so they said) and I was one of those defending AA saying it wasn't pay 2 win. But then the game launched and they slowly but surely turned it into a pay 2 win cash shop. AA devs said the same things CF devs are saying, only cosmetic fluff items and account services. AA devs lied and went down that route lets hope CF Devs are better.

Edited by pang

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At first it wasn't pay 2 win(or so they said) and I was one of those defending AA saying it wasn't pay 2 win. But then the game launched and they slowly but surely turned it into a pay 2 win cash shop. AA devs said the same things CF devs are saying, only cosmetic fluff items and account services. AA devs lied and went down that route lets hope CF Devs are better.

 

I too defended AA at first but it turned into a very clear P2W after a little while, deviating very much from what the devs had promised. I fear same thing will happen in CF as it's been a recurring experience in every cash shop I have ever seen. So very toxic for MMORPG's but quick easy cash for devs that too often succumb it would seem.

Edited by Zushakon

Member of The BlackHand Order

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